Continuation Part Nine: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Bill Williams]

So it IS rational that an innocent person would knowingly tell a complete lie?

Is this the line you wish to argue?

You've just verified that whoever told Amanda she had HIV is both a liar and not innocent. Also Stefanoni knowingly lied to the court as did Comodi.

Do you really wish to insist on this?

 

[Diocletus]

Some time ago, Machiavelli wrote the 10 reasons why Hellmann was a criminal. One of them was:

​

When commenting on his own claim, Machiavelli said on TJMK:

​

Maybe I should have asked it differently. Is De Nunzio a criminal or just a riddle?

Anyone with a name like that must be a criminal. And a foe of osmosis.

 

[kwill]

There is no way that any PIP can rationally explain why RS claimed MK pricked herself on his knife.

Nor should they, because he never made that claim in public, much less in court, much less under oath.

Maybe he was going to make that claim. Maybe he was just trying to imagine a scenario. Maybe he was thinking of a time he was cooking with someone else.

You don't know, but the one thing you do know is that he never told that story to the court . . . he wrote it in a diary that seems to have been meant as an extended letter to his family. This might make him crazy, or panicky, or stupid, or someone with a bad memory -- but it doesn't make him guilty.

There was no DNA or blood from Meredith on his cooking knife, so it doesn't matter if he came up with 10 phony explanations for how something got there, because there was nothing there. If Meredith's DNA was on that knife and there was no way it could have been from contamination, I'd be with the PGP. But it wasn't, so it seems like this is just another in a giant pile of red herring.

He's innocent. So is Amanda.

 

[Desert Fox]

So it IS rational that an innocent person would knowingly tell a complete lie?

Actually it is. . . .When evidence indicates something crazy, your brain is going to hunt for some rationalization. Kind of like how you rationalize just about everything the Italian court does. You cannot accept that your legal system is railroading innocent people. Therefore you come up with reasons why you think they are guilty.

 

[Bill Williams]

So it IS rational that an innocent person would knowingly tell a complete lie?

Do yourself a favour and watch Sarah Burns/Ken Burns documentary on the Central Park Five. You'll see not one but 5 equally innocent guys say similar things when in hands of the police - on video.

Apparently innocent people DO do this. If you also count false confessions, fully 1/4 of exonerations involve a false, made up story of guilt from an otherwise innocent person.

 

[Desert Fox]

Do yourself a favour and watch Sarah Burns/Ken Burns documentary on the Central Park Five. You'll see not one but 5 equally innocent guys say similar things when in hands of the police - on video.

Apparently innocent people DO do this. If you also count false confessions, fully 1/4 of exonerations involve a false, made up story of guilt from an otherwise innocent person.

The pro innocence side shows case after case of innocent defendants confessing to crimes that they do not commit.
The pro guilt side though just seems to ignore every example.

 

[acbytesla]

So it IS rational that an innocent person would knowingly tell a complete lie?

It is when people are saying they have damning evidence against you. In fact, I can't think of anything more rational. It's called survival griffin. I've worked in sales for 30 years and seen people lie all the time for a couple of margin points and close a sale. People lie all the time. Are you saying you wouldn't lie to get out of jail? I would suggest that most people in fact would.

 

[acbytesla]

Do yourself a favour and watch Sarah Burns/Ken Burns documentary on the Central Park Five. You'll see not one but 5 equally innocent guys say similar things when in hands of the police - on video.

Apparently innocent people DO do this. If you also count false confessions, fully 1/4 of exonerations involve a false, made up story of guilt from an otherwise innocent person.

Boy, you're an optimist Bill. Griffin is not going to allow himself to think that some innocent people actually incriminate themselves or lie or make false statements. He has far too much invested in Amanda's guilt to consider that any of the guilter memes might be false. It would jeopardize his entire belief system. You know the holy trinity. The Father, the Son and Amanda Knox the slut is guilty despite the evidence.

 

[xinonix]

What Amanda was feeling was something called survivor's guilt.
In early november Amanda was wondering if she had come home at that time instead of Merideth Rudy may have killed her instead of Merideth.

 

[Samson]

Boy, you're an optimist Bill. Griffin is not going to allow himself to think that some innocent people actually incriminate themselves or lie or make false statements. He has far too much invested in Amanda's guilt to consider that any of the guilter memes might be false. It would jeopardize his entire belief system. You know the holy trinity. The Father, the Son and Amanda Knox the slut is guilty despite the evidence.

Many guilters are of the fairer sex.

 

[acbytesla]

Many guilters are of the fairer sex.

I thought Griffin was a guy. If I'm wrong...I'm sorry Griffin.

 

[RWVBWL]

Haters don't text to ask if you wanna hang out, and get a "X"'.

Meredith texted Amanda on Halloween that she couldn't join her because she had already been invited to a dinner party.

Meredith signed her text with a little "x"...


(*)-Pg 17, Murder in Italy.

 

[RWVBWL]

Haters DO NOT eat lunch together and then go out wine drinking together hours later.

The day before on,
30 October, 2007,
Meredith, Amanda, Laura, and Filomena had lunch together for the last time.
Chatting about boys and dating. Soon Raffaele showed up and made pasta for the girls. Laura did not participate, having already eaten, but Meredith did in what Filomena called a "very nice" lunch.

Later that same day, in the evening, Meredith,
with 2 of her English gal pals, met up with Amanda and Raffaele at La Tana Dell'Orso on Via Ulisse:
One of the few above ground bars in town, La Tana claimed to have "Perugia's best wine selection".

They drank 2 liters of wine in a 2 hour time frame before leaving,
owner Esteban Garcia Pascual and his English wife Lucy Rigby recall.


Who sends kisses when replying to text messages,
has lunch with and drinks wine out on the town with a person you hate?

About La Tana,
which is apparently now closed
Here's a travelers review I found from 2009:
http://www.italybeyondtheobvious.com/perugia

Perugia’s wine
Umbria is wine country, so visit a vineyard or two or at least sample some of the local wine in an enoteca. We have great memories of Enoteca la Tana dell’Orso (Via Rochi Ulisse 32), which is about a 5 minute walk from the Piazza IV Novembre. If you go, visit the Enoteca pub in the cellar, and make sure to ask about their salumi, and get recommendations on cheese and marmelade pairings.

Can you imagine Meredith and Amanda, along with others there too,
drinking wine and just hating each other while sitting there together?
Or were they too making great memories of Perugia together?

(*)-Pg 45, 97+98, Murder in Italy.

 

[Dan O.]

Nor should they, because he never made that claim in public, much less in court, much less under oath.

Maybe he was going to make that claim. Maybe he was just trying to imagine a scenario. Maybe he was thinking of a time he was cooking with someone else.

Maybe you should be more familiar with the case material. Laura testified that Raffaele cooked for Meredith at the cottage. Amanda and Raffaele both stated long before this knife story that they were at the cottage that morning and Raffaele was cooking pasta when Meredith came throughout the kitchen to check her laundry. There is no indication that any part of Raffaele's story is a lie except the parts that the guilters alter saying that the event occurred at Rafaele's flat or that Meredith's hand was pricked.

 

[Samson]

I thought Griffin was a guy. If I'm wrong...I'm sorry Griffin.

Sorry acbytesla, I recalled a determination but I could be wrong, and not my business of course, but part of the rich tapestry of the case is to have some sociological profile of those who would deprive people of liberty, to do so is an act of the greatest aggression.
Amazons?

 

[Kaosium]

This is the high art of rationalization. And I love how the story concludes with the police "illicity" seizing his diary as if that has any relevance to the admission.

Of course it does, he was never trying to deceive police, prosecutors or the public with it! How can it be relevant otherwise?

There is no way that any PIP can rationally explain why RS claimed MK pricked herself on his knife.

I just did: innocent people would be trying to explain the inexplicable too.

It's a mind boggling gaffe for an "innocent" person, and he has never explained it to any level of satisfaction.

Yes, he has.

 

[Kaosium]

Some time ago, Machiavelli wrote the 10 reasons why Hellmann was a criminal. One of them was:

​

When commenting on his own claim, Machiavelli said on TJMK:

​

Maybe I should have asked it differently. Is De Nunzio a criminal or just a riddle?

Thank you for the explanation.

 

[RWVBWL]

The guy can cook....

Maybe you should be more familiar with the case material. Laura testified that Raffaele cooked for Meredith at the cottage.

Hi all,
This was on Oct. 30, 2007,
the day before Halloween, when the girls had their last lunch together.
At home.

Raffaele showed up and made pasta for them, Laura did not eat,
but Meredith, Amanda and Filomena had a "very nice" lunch I've read...

AND

Amanda and Raffaele both stated long before this knife story that they were at the cottage that morning and Raffaele was cooking pasta when Meredith came throughout the kitchen to check her laundry.

True again, Dan O.,
From what I've read,
on Nov. 1, 2007, the day after Halloween,
Raffaele did show up around 2:00pm to Amanda and Meredith's flat and made pasta again, and Meredith came out of the shower and grabbed some laundry or put some laundry in, 1 or the other, Amanda wrote in an email.

There is no indication that any part of Raffaele's story is a lie except the parts that the guilters alter saying that the event occurred at Rafaele's flat or that Meredith's hand was pricked.

Raffaele liked to cook for Amanda.
1 night he even called his Dad and asked for a recipe,
because he wanted to make Amanda a risotto, a deliciously creamy, time consuming rice dish. The guy can cook...


(*)-pg 35, 44+45 Murder in Italy

 

[Kaosium]

It is arguable that since March 2013, this whole thing has been about shielding Mignini/Stefanoni and saving Perugian law enforcement from embarrassment/criminal charges.

Arguable at least. I still canot get over it - that even with a letter from the Kerchers requesting that all testing be done, that the Florence court only allowed one - a study of Raffaele's fingernails.

Sorry Bill, I missed this the first time around. As to the first, that wouldn't surprise me overmuch, but it's not just Miggie and Steffi and the Lying Squad at stake, but for some it appears to me it's also the honor of the Italian Court System. They're a political factor in Italy and that's more important to some than the lives of two kids their papers all say are scum anyway.

As to the latter, how specific were they? Did they actually ask for all testing or was it more generic or could be construed to mean they (desperately!) wanted 36I tested? I didn't follow that trial very closely, my reading of the Cassation motivations suggested to me it would be nothing but a show trial.

 

[Samson]

Sorry Bill, I missed this the first time around. As to the first, that wouldn't surprise me overmuch, but it's not just Miggie and Steffi and the Lying Squad at stake, but for some it appears to me it's also the honor of the Italian Court System. They're a political factor in Italy and that's more important to some than the lives of two kids their papers all say are scum anyway.

As to the latter, how specific were they? Did they actually ask for all testing or was it more generic or could be construed to mean they (desperately!) wanted 36I tested? I didn't follow that trial very closely, my reading of the Cassation motivations suggested to me it would be nothing but a show trial.

A bit like this

The Trial (original German title: Der Process,[1] later Der Prozess, Der Proceß and Der Prozeß) is a novel written by Franz Kafka in 1914 and 1915 but not published until 1925. One of Kafka's best-known works, it tells the story of a man arrested and prosecuted by a remote, inaccessible authority

(from wiki)