Continuation Part Nine: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[acbytesla]

As for my understanding, a "pimp" is a person who earns money from the work of prostitutes, and supervises their activity.

This means, no way Rudy could be considered "Knox's pimp".

While a pimp earns money, a person who instead pays money or goods (like drug) to a prostitute in exchange for sex, at best he might be considered a customer. Certainly not a pimp.

However there is no evidence Knox was a prostitute; a prostitute is a profesional, not someone who is having fun. If ever Knox took part in a trade abut sex in exchange of anything, this must have been at an amateurish level. There is also no conclusive evidence Guede was a dealer (while instead Kokomani was, and was there the night of the murder).
But anyway the kind of activity Knox did concerning drug or sex is of no interest, neither to authorities nor to me.

The topic that might be of interest - not to the guiters, not toe me and not to authorities, but instead to the innocentisti and their narrative, since undermines the innocentisti "myth" about Knox's persona ("different" from Rudy Gude and "nothing to do" with him nor with drugs or druggie envronments) and context she actually lived in - this topic is her phone contacts, it's about the kind of people she attended.

It is also plain obvious that if you attend drug dealers, it's because of drugs, or at best because you like to have casual sex or "friendship" with drug dealers. And this is not drug dealers in general, we are talking about the very same smal group which Guede was part of.

Any attempt of drawing a line in the sand between Knox, on one side, and Guede or his world ("different", "nothing to do", "improbable"), that was a pillar in the inocentisti world view, obvously fies in the face of reality.

Quite interesting that before Amanda's trip to Italy, there is no evidence whatsoever of Amanda being this wild coke head and drug user. Amanda admitted to having smoked cannabis as had all the girls and boys living at the cottage did. So this side of Amanda is not a secret.

However there is significant proof that Amanda was a very responsible person holding down multiple jobs and making progress toward her degree at the University of Washington. And after being released from prison, Amanda has gone back to being that responsible person, finishing her book and completing her studies and getting her degree at the UW. Is Amanda a "perfect" person? I doubt it. But unlike Rudy, she was never arrested for breaking into businesses and possession of stolen goods from other burglaries. The difference between Amanda/Raffaele and Rudy is the difference between day and night.

We don't have to portray Amanda as being different than Rudy Guede, it is obvious to anyone who actually looks.

 

[Diocletus]

As for what I know hair test is rarely used in criminal investigation. This is not only because it usually provides information about a rather small array of substances (opioids, cocaine, cannabis) and is unable to detect others (alcohol, ketamine), but above all because results can't be dated.
It is impossible to infer anything but a "past" or potentially a past "habitual" use of a substance, something which is usualy worthless information. In a criminal trial usually you need to focus on circumstances of a specific day. And usually it's not the prosecution the one that has an interest in collecting such unspecific information. These kind of tests on criminal investigations are mostly defensive.

Let's be honest here, folks. It's a good thing if the cops didn't do a drug test. The fewer "tests" these incompetent boobs perform, the better off everyone is.

The operation of Stefanoni's lab is so demonstrably bad, that I am certain that they have locked up innocents (in addition to Knox and Sollecito).

I'm with Strozzi, I think there should be a lawsuit here. Selling genotyping machinery to these clowns is as bad as selling a car to a drunken 5 year old.

 

[Machiavelli]

If no test was done they are obviously incompetent - if they were trying to find evidence to support Mignini's (dirty old man) drug fueled sex game theory, surely any competent police would try to find out whether the accused had been using drugs in the last 90-days.

And it's laughable that they couldn't date drug use, couldn't date semen, but could date DNA - you just couldn't make this stuff up

You have no right and no excuse for calling Mignini "dirty old man" because he thought of a sexual context as a scenario; when you have a woman victim who was found dead in her room naked with evidence of sexual abuse on her body. Any rational person would infer a probable sexual context, and also, from the physical elements and autopsy report any rational person would infer the presence of multiple perpetrators involved on the murder scene. Also, any rational person would perceive that the "break in" was staged.

 

[NancyS]

Indeed you do nothing but confirm what I wrote above. You just confirm, don't you realize?
Besides your objection that young women should not be thought as going after group sex, what you say immediately after is that, instead, all college students should be thought as having a ring of cocaine dealers as friends.

So, look at your cosistency and your "standards": it is not natural for young women to be involved in group sex, no, this is a rel no-no thing, let's never be near to this idea; but instead it is natural for young women to have friends among associate drug dealers (some of which have various kinds of violent criminal records).
How do you make sense of that?

What I say is, having sex with anyone is normal; people have sex with those who they attend; indeed if it's normal for someone to have casual relationships (or "casual sex" as Knox calls it) and also to have a bunch of drug dealers as friends and phone contacts (and also to have a boyfriend who admits to be a frequent drug user), this means it is normal for that person to have relationships (of any nature, sexual or non sexual doesn't really matter) with drug dealers.

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you are actually trying to say here

Most young people have sex, most young people have taken drugs or know people that have taken or even dealt drugs. Any young person could be vilified and slutified in the same way for fairly normal young adult behaviour - and none of this has anything to do with a propensity for violent murder.

And I don't think I mentioned anything about group sex being natural or unnatural - just that it is only in the minds of dirty old men, that women are all up for it after a Bacardi breezer and a line of cocaine

 

[Machiavelli]

(...)
We don't have to portray Amanda as being different than Rudy Guede, it is obvious to anyone who actually looks.

Yes. She looks like someone who stages burglaries to scare her roommates, or someone who runs drug/alcohol/sex fueled parties that go out of control where naked people throw rock across the streets. We all know the words the police officer used to describe the scene at that party. And we all know how the Seattle Perp associates are able to remain silent about anything they know about their companions.

 

[LondonJohn]

Yes. She looks like someone who stages burglaries to scare her roommates, or someone who runs drug/alcohol/sex fueled parties that go out of control where naked people throw rock across the streets. We all know the words the police officer used to describe the scene at that party. And we all know how the Seattle Perp associates are able to remain silent about anything they know about their companions.

This is mendacious rubbish. The Seattle police officer was almost certainly pushed into agreeing to sensationalist language to describe that party. It's abundantly clear from the actual evidence that it was nothing more - or less - than a rowdy student party that got slightly out of hand. I 100% guarantee that there will be at least five such parties tonight within a half-mile radius of where I live.

And the "stages burglaries to scare her roommates" is also arrant nonsense. You're either ignorantly unaware of the April Fool's tradition, or you are aware of it but are choosing to overlook it in favour of a ludicrous misinterpretation of what actually happened.

Either way, these are intellectually-bankrupt attempts to shoehorn these two inconsequential events into some sort of warped, vindictive demonisation of Knox. I know I shouldn't be surprised at such poor and unpleasant thinking, but even so.........

 

[NancyS]

You have no right and no excuse for calling Mignini "dirty old man" because he thought of a sexual context as a scenario; when you have a woman victim who was found dead in her room naked with evidence of sexual abuse on her body. Any rational person would infer a probable sexual context, and also, from the physical elements and autopsy report any rational person would infer the presence of multiple perpetrators involved on the murder scene. Also, any rational person would perceive that the "break in" was staged.

Any rational person would test the semen stain - and would believe the autopsy report when it stated NO EVIDENCE FOR MULTIPLE PERPETRATORS - and wouldn't come up with a scenario lifted straight from his porn collection, when there is a far more believable theory that Rudy Guede acted alone, which is also consistent with the evidence

 

[acbytesla]

If no test was done they are obviously incompetent - if they were trying to find evidence to support Mignini's (dirty old man) drug fueled sex game theory, surely any competent police would try to find out whether the accused had been using drugs in the last 90-days.

And it's laughable that they couldn't date drug use, couldn't date semen, but could date DNA - you just couldn't make this stuff up

I'm with you Nancy, I don't believe that they wouldn't have done a tox screen with the hair test as it is a perfect way to identify drug use for up to 90 days. It's non-invasive and can be done surreptitiously if necessary. But I'm sure that wouldn't have been necessary after they were arrested.

If they can get a warrant to tap Amanda's phones, they certainly could get the authorization upon entering jail for hair, blood and urine. Especially with the "drug sex scenario" painted by the prosecution. But again, this is probably more proof of the corruption in Perugia. They do the tox screen and if it comes up negative and potentially detracts from the narrative, the document just disappears.

 

[Diocletus]

people have sex with those who they attend

Is that why the teacher takes "attendance?"

 

[Diocletus]

You have no right and no excuse for calling Mignini "dirty old man" because he thought of a sexual context as a scenario; when you have a woman victim who was found dead in her room naked with evidence of sexual abuse on her body. Any rational person would infer a probable sexual context, and also, from the physical elements and autopsy report any rational person would infer the presence of multiple perpetrators involved on the murder scene. Also, any rational person would perceive that the "break in" was staged.

But only a pervert would think that the pretty roommate did it.

 

[acbytesla]

Why supporters seem dumb? Drug use is never interesting per se. You ask why they had blood/drug tests etc. But Knox and Sollecito were arrested! And it was for another crime, not for drug assumption. They had blood tests because they were taken into prison. Drug test can be done if there is a potential relation between drugs and the crime they are accused of, in order to understand the context of a crime (if there is some peculiar long lasting substance like meth derivatives, who knows). But otherwise the police does not investigate personal habits, it's not a matter of interest.

You can't be serious. Amanda is portrayed by the authorities as being involved in a drug fueled sex game gone awry and they aren't going to investigate her personal habits? That dog just won't hunt.That is the first thing they are going to do. These morons used a noise ticket to demonize Amanda Knox, if there was clear evidence of Amanda being an out of control coke head, this would have been presented and it would have been front page news from one end of the globe to the other.

 

[Diocletus]

As for what I know hair test is rarely used in criminal investigation.

Is that why Stefanoni screwed up every hair test that she performed?

 

[acbytesla]

Yes. She looks like someone who stages burglaries to scare her roommates, or someone who runs drug/alcohol/sex fueled parties that go out of control where naked people throw rock across the streets. We all know the words the police officer used to describe the scene at that party. And we all know how the Seattle Perp associates are able to remain silent about anything they know about their companions.

Yes we do know what words the police officer used to describe the scene at the party and it isn't your words. There weren't any "naked" people throwing rocks" and there is no proof that Amanda was one of them. Why do you feel the need to embellish the facts?

n the city of Seattle

I was on uniformed patrol in the marked unit as 3U5. At approximately 0028 hours, I responded to the report of a loud party in the listed location. The complainant relayed to dispatch that participants from the party were throwing rocks at his house and at passing cars. The complainant requested officer not contact him. Upon arrival, I noted loud amplified music coming from the listed address. The music could be heard from a distance greater than 75 ft from the source. I also noted several rocks in the street. I did not locate any damage at that time. I contacted a party participant and had them retrieve a resident.

S1/Knox contacted me (in front of the house). She stated that she was one of the current residents. She stated that she was the one who was hosting the party (as she was moving out). She stated that she was not aware of any rock throwers at the gathering.

I issued S1/Knox this infraction for the noise violation.

You really are amazing Machiavelli. She pulled a prank on her roommate. So what? She held a party. So what? This is not the same as breaking into homes and businesses. Amanda is not perfect, but a college party that got too loud or where maybe a participant got out of hand and maybe threw some rocks that hit nothing and caused no damage whatsoever and Amanda is responsible for that?

As for Seattle people remaining silent, you can't be serious? There is no law of Omerta. This is the real problem, your runaway imagination.

 

[NancyS]

Yes. She looks like someone who stages burglaries to scare her roommates, or someone who runs drug/alcohol/sex fueled parties that go out of control where naked people throw rock across the streets. We all know the words the police officer used to describe the scene at that party. And we all know how the Seattle Perp associates are able to remain silent about anything they know about their companions.

Drug/alcohol/sex fuelled parties and naked rock throwers have you also been watching Mignini's porn collection?

These sexed up theories say far more about the mind of those inventing them, than they do about Amanda Knox

And I love how you find anything written about Amanda and then add some words like 'naked' 'sex' 'drugs' - or do you have a pornifying key on your keyboard that automatically changes statements like 'rock throwers' to 'naked rock throwers' ?

 

[Matthew Best]

As for Seattle people remaining silent, you can't be serious? There is no law of Omerta. This is the real problem, your runaway imagination.

We are really down the rabbit hole when the fact that some unnamed people remain silent about something is actually considered to be evidence that they have something to say about it.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

This is obviously a desperate attempt of diversion, quite usual from pro-Knox supporters, just showing how desperate you are to try to try avoid the merit of a question.
In fact, the only argument of merit in this is that Knox was known having phone contacts with a bunch of drug dealers at Piazza Grimana. There is really nothing you can do to make this go away. This goes beyond any consideration about Comic Sans or about your likes and dislikes of police professionalism level.
It will be really hard for you to attempt to remove Knox's contacts with the shady crowd from reality.
I leave it to rational observers to decide whether it is "competent" to assume someone is a drug user based on his/her repeated phone contcts with drug dealers. I point out that a blood test for cocaine taken 5 days later is almost certainly negative whatever the person did; and anyway personal use of drugs is not a matter of police investigation.

They took her hair to test for drugs. Hair shows months' worth of drugs.

 

[Vibio]

Excellent level-headed posts by Mach all around.*

Re: faked document.

I'm the one who first posted here about the font etc. and how the doc appeared fake to me.

Mach's explaination and examples make sense.

One other thing: if any publication were trying to pass of a forged document as coming from the Questura, they would be committing a felony. Not good.

Therefore, I 'm now convinced the doc is real. But it's old news anyway.

The real news is who is behind this and what their ultimate objective is:

First the security cam footage. Next Raff's Aunt goes on TV saying she thinks it could be Knox.

Then Raff's strange, totally unnecessary press conference with tortured explainations about when "night" begins.

Then the twitter war against Knox and her supporters by Raff's confidant and good family friend, Cristina Magnani.

Then the Ground Report article with a bizarre threat to Sollecito.

Then Magnani making veiled threats and finally coming out and saying that she believes Knox was involved in the murder.

And now this old story surfacing again about the drug connection, complete with the original police report. It seems to have been brought up again only to make Knox look bad. But why now?

It's not going to stop here...


------------

*Except for the thing about the nekkid rock throwers. I would like some photographic proof.

 

[acbytesla]

You have no right and no excuse for calling Mignini "dirty old man" because he thought of a sexual context as a scenario; when you have a woman victim who was found dead in her room naked with evidence of sexual abuse on her body. Any rational person would infer a probable sexual context, and also, from the physical elements and autopsy report any rational person would infer the presence of multiple perpetrators involved on the murder scene. Also, any rational person would perceive that the "break in" was staged.

Seriously Machiavelli? How many sex crimes involve women perpetrators? How many involve two assailants? How many involve three assailants and one being a woman? No, Mignini is a "dirty old man" and the autopsy does not show multiple perpatrators or that it is rational to perceive that the "break in" was staged.

This is what is perfect about the case against Amanda. The prosecution "claims" something and all of a sudden that "claim" is considered proof. The majority of experts said that they couldn't tell is there were multiple or just a single perpetrator.

This case is conjecture, wrapped up in speculation, and shrouded by innuendo.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

This type of false rhetoric is not helpful to your cause.
Your strain "heroin makes you reliable" is the usual attempt to twist and inject some falsehood in the narrative. The judges - not just Mignini and Comodi and Crini and Galati and Costagliola - but a series of judges, pointed out that the fact that someone is a heroin user, is not a sufficient for ruling he is unreliable or to make him disappear as a witness.
Which is a bit different from your false straw man "heroin makes you reliable".

Machiavelli,

Are you really so close to this case you cannot see the hypocrisy in this position? A witness whacked out on heroin is completely trustworthy but someone who had an alleged drug dealer's phone number in their phone cannot be trusted at all.

This is not one of your better positions.

 

[Vibio]

A witness whacked out on heroin

Question: I'm not informed about Curatolo+heroin, so if any one can help: was it established that Curatolo was high on heroin that evening? Or was it just that he was an occasional user? What's the deal here?