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Continuation Part Nine: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Fling whatever they can against her until something sticks.

Why now? Why go looking for stuff that even Mignini would have been embarrassed to present in 2008-09?

This sums up Massei on the issue..... the drugs being referred to was Amanda's participation in marijuana smoking.... absolutely no mention at all of anything else, despite the fantasies Machiavelli had in 2008 about cocaine and Amanda being involved with hard core dealers....

That said, it should be noted above all that both defendants have no criminal record,
no pending suit (with regard to the non-applicability of the limit to the granting of
generic [extenuating circumstances] in Article 1 letter F bis [421] Law 24.7.2008 No.
125 to crimes committed in an earlier period, cf. Cassation 10646/2009). Other than
their personal use of drugs, no unbecoming behaviour of the same [defendants] was
demonstrated to have been carried out to the detriment of others. No witness
testified to violent actions, or to aggressions-intimidations carried out by the current
defendants to the detriment of anyone at all. To the contrary, there were even shown
to be circumstances in which as much one as the other, besides diligently and
profitably undertaking their studies in the manner that they were expected to do as
students (Raffaele Sollecito was on the point of graduating and Amanda Knox was
working profitably and regularly in the classes she was attending at the University)
proved themselves to be available with others (Raffaele Sollecito, on the evening of 1
November, was meant to have accompanied Jovana Popovic to the station) and
made the effort of taking on work (Amanda Knox worked in the evenings in the pub
of Diya Lumumba) which was added to the effort required by their studies and
attending lessons. These circumstances seem significant ex Article 133 paragraph 2
number 2 of the Criminal Code.​

* * * * * * * * *​

In searching for what Judge Massei said about all this, this came up by chance, albeit not relevant to the drug issue....

Certainly, it can be observed that every single place in the house was not tested, and
one might think that Raffaele Sollecito's DNA might have been located in some other
places. One can consider the possibility that his DNA from some other place that
was not found was transferred onto the bra clasp, but this would have to have been
done by someone manipulating the object. But simple contact between objects does not transfer DNA.​

I wish Chris Halkides would comment on that!
 
RWVBWL, since you have kindly offered to put us at ease by changing your avatar and you are an excellent researcher, I would like to give you a challenge.

For your next avatar, please choose between one of the following:
  • Copy of the bleach receipts.
  • Copy of bank document showing transfer of funds from Masonic headquarters to Judge Hellman.
  • Copy of medical lab test results showing Amanda to be HIV positive.
:p
 
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Colonel Garofano said that DNA does not fly. Peter Gill said that DNA can be detected up to 180 cm away from a person speaking. Garofano has been consistent in DNA forensics cases, consistently wrong.

I saw that as well. . . . .Maybe scientists involved in DNA research around the world need to write an open letter to make it clear that DNA can potentially fly.
Otherwise, other police / courts may get the idea that DNA cannot fly.
 
RWVBWL, since you have kindly offered to put us at ease by changing your avatar and you are an excellent researcher, I would like to give you a challenge.

For your next avatar, please choose between one of the following:
  • Copy of the bleach receipts.
  • Copy of bank document showing transfer of funds from Masonic headquarters to Judge Hellman.
  • Copy of medical lab test results showing Amanda to be HIV positive.
:p

How's this?
 

Attachments

DNA contamination in the Gregory Turner case

I wish Chris Halkides would comment on that!
It is daft. What about secondary transfer? What about the DNA from unknown people that is sometimes found on clothing (not the wearer or family members)? It seems to me that Stefanoni's intellectually dishonest testimony about the need for a liquid to transfer DNA misled the court.

There was a contamination event involving Gregory Turner. A technician transferred her own DNA to Turner's ring. IIRC she also testified a murder victim's DNA to the ring, probably because she had been working with the victim's fingernails nearby. It is not clear exactly how the DNA was transferred, but there is no reason to believe that liquids were involved.
 
I trust that someone will bring this fake twitter account

https://twitter.com/GogertyMarriott

to the attention of David Marriott or someone at GM. It's rather defamatory and is therefore potentially susceptible to a civil action from GM. Good luck to whichever moron created it (presumably the same moron who created the fake "memo to journalists following the Amanda Knox case" that forms the kernel of the fake twitter output).

What's even more astonishing is the reaction of the credulous intellectual pygmies (all of whom are of course blinkered pro-guilt commentators) who genuinely seem to believe that this might be a genuine GM twitter account! But it's also an excellent insight into their abject lack of objective analytical skills and their rampant confirmation bias, so it's quite useful in that respect :)
 
(BTW, that fake "memo to journalists" appears to have already been retweeted several times. Whoever created it (presumably the same person who fraudulently created the fake GM twitter account) might be in quite a bit of legal trouble. I don't think it's a very good idea to masquerade as - then defame - a reasonably powerful PR company :) )
 
(BTW, that fake "memo to journalists" appears to have already been retweeted several times. Whoever created it (presumably the same person who fraudulently created the fake GM twitter account) might be in quite a bit of legal trouble. I don't think it's a very good idea to masquerade as - then defame - a reasonably powerful PR company :) )

Indeed. Perhaps the person responsible imagines his (or her) anonymity will act as a shield against any law suit. If so, so wrong. The courts are perfectly accustomed to these actions now and will readily order ISPs/web masters and the like to cough up the requisite ID. What follows can be quite painful. As in the case of the retired solicitor (you would think he knew better) who obliged the McCanns to squash him like a bug for insinuating they were involved in the disappearance of their daughter:

In November 2012, lawyers for the McCann family went to the High Court to argue that Bennett was not abiding by the terms of his undertaking and was continuing to spread false allegations against them. Bennett, in an interview with the Harlow Star, said that he still had valid arguments and that "Britain's libel laws are so oppressive that I had no alternative but to agree to the terms of the formal undertakings set out by the McCanns' lawyers in November 2009".[37] Bennett was found guilty of contempt of court and, on 21 February 2013, given a three-month suspended prison sentence and ordered to pay the McCanns' court costs.[38] The court had considered 13 representative instances relating to breaches of his undertakings "on well over 100 occasions.
 
"He pulled a knife from the drawer and asked is this one good, the answer was "good enough"

This reminds me of the time I saw Anne Coulter on Bill O'Riley's talk show. She was talking about The knife with Meredith's DNA on the blade and Amanda's DNA on the handle.
Bill said " Why didn't they just get rid of it?"
When the cops were searching Raffaele's place they already knew that if Raffael ever had a knife that actually was evidence, he wouldn't bring it home. What they were looking for was a knife with Amanda's DNA on the handle. As for a blade with Kercher's DNA, they planned to cross that bridge when they got to it.
 
It's quite simple. Roommates and boyfriends are potential suspects so they would need a warrant. Random people with no link to the case are not suspects so they need only to be asked for permission to take a reference sample. Of course, nobody will refuse such a request because refusal is an indication of guilt and with no other suspects they would instantly become number one.

This makes no sense. They're not going to ask random people with no link to a case for reference samples. If L.E. is taking samples from you it is either to rule you in as a suspect or to eliminate your prints or DNA from the unknown at the crime scene. Either they need a warrant or they don't.
 
(BTW, that fake "memo to journalists" appears to have already been retweeted several times. Whoever created it (presumably the same person who fraudulently created the fake GM twitter account) might be in quite a bit of legal trouble. I don't think it's a very good idea to masquerade as - then defame - a reasonably powerful PR company :) )

Why would Harry Rag/The Machine even want to do this? For one thing his anonymity is now vulnerable.

But it is laughable the content of the "memo to journalists". Can you imagine the look on Diane Sawyer's or Chris Cuomo's faces if they'd received something like this from Gogerty-Marriott.

The first question from them would follow a huge visual of the memo on the screen, with the question: "So, Amanda: you wish to divert justice?"

Harry Rag/The Machine has a very complex fantasy life. He's the author of the "abundance of DNA" meme, the "mixed blood" meme, and the author of the list of lies Amanda told, which number 13, and 12 of them are lies HR/TM claims Raffaele told!!!!

The man is troubled.
 
"He pulled a knife from the drawer and asked is this one good, the answer was "good enough"

This reminds me of the time I saw Anne Coulter on Bill O'Riley's talk show. She was talking about The knife with Meredith's DNA on the blade and Amanda's DNA on the handle.
Bill said " Why didn't they just get rid of it?"When the cops were searching Raffaele's place they already knew that if Raffael ever had a knife that actually was evidence, he wouldn't bring it home. What they were looking for was a knife with Amanda's DNA on the handle. As for a blade with Kercher's DNA, they planned to cross that bridge when they got to it.

Indeed.

This was the question Frank Sfarzo asked back in 2007 when he was a guilter - and his barbed/acid wit was turned on Amanda and Raffaele.

Acc. to Perugia Shock, Frank had trekked down to the cottage and found a cop there. Frank asked the cop if they'd searched the forest below the cottage for the knife.

Cop answered: "We already have the knife." Frank stubbornly persisted: "Yeah, but has the forest even been searched?"

Cop answered: "Why would we search it if we already have the knife?"

Fast forward to trial when it was revealed that Raffaele's kitchen knife matched none of the wounds, and Mignini was now advancing the two knife theory!

Was the second knife still in that forest? Who knows.... it was never searched.

Such was the investigation of this crime. I weep for Meredith and the Kerchers.
 
The monster

Been listening to the Preston/Spezi book, in particular the part where Mignini interrogates Preston for two and a half hours.

Preston describes being told that his Italian is plenty good enough, though they can wait for a translator if he's got all day . . . also that he doesn't need a lawyer.

They go through about an hour's worth of warmup questions, and then Mignini starts to lean on him to explain the meaning of a few sentences from a secretly taped conversation Preston had with Spezi. Preston says that Mignini plays the tape ten times, each time asking questions in a slightly different way, trying to catch him in a lie.

At the end of this interrogation, Mignini formally indicts (but doesn't arrest) Preston for perjury and obstruction of justice and tells him to leave Italy. There's no transcript and no tape that we know of.

So what I want to know is, how does that work? Can you be indicted without being arrested in other countries? And when was Preston a formal suspect for those crimes, as opposed to being a witness to Spezi's supposed crimes?

Preston speaking with an interviewer at the end of the audiobook:

You really don't have any idea what it's like to be interrogated until you're actually interrogated yourself. I mean here I was. I was hauled into this room. There were 5 detectives present. I was questioned in a foreign language with no interpreter present, and no lawyer.

And I was accused of committing the most heinous of crimes, including being an accessory to murder. And while this was going on I was thinking to myself, "My God. I'm never going to come out of this room a free man. They're going to take me from this room, and they're going to put me in jail, and I will never see my wife and children again.

I was terrified. It breaks you down psychologically. I kept thinking, "What can I say to them that will help me out? What can I say that would get me out of this situation?"

I ended up telling the truth and nothing but the truth, but I can see how a person could falsely confess to a crime, thinking somehow that that would help them get out of the situation.

In fact, my interrogator demanded that I confess to this crime that I hadn't committed. He demanded it. And he said, "If you don't confess, I am going to charge you here and now with perjury. With reticence. And with obstruction of justice."

And when I refused to confess, he finally did just that.
 
This makes no sense. They're not going to ask random people with no link to a case for reference samples. If L.E. is taking samples from you it is either to rule you in as a suspect or to eliminate your prints or DNA from the unknown at the crime scene. Either they need a warrant or they don't.

I wouldn't think you needed a warrant to ask for a DNA sample, but that you would need one to demand one.
 
Indeed.

This was the question Frank Sfarzo asked back in 2007 when he was a guilter - and his barbed/acid wit was turned on Amanda and Raffaele.

Acc. to Perugia Shock, Frank had trekked down to the cottage and found a cop there. Frank asked the cop if they'd searched the forest below the cottage for the knife.

Cop answered: "We already have the knife." Frank stubbornly persisted: "Yeah, but has the forest even been searched?"

Cop answered: "Why would we search it if we already have the knife?"

Fast forward to trial when it was revealed that Raffaele's kitchen knife matched none of the wounds, and Mignini was now advancing the two knife theory!

Was the second knife still in that forest? Who knows.... it was never searched.

Such was the investigation of this crime. I weep for Meredith and the Kerchers.

Oh Bill.
Bill Bill Bill – your empathy does you proud [are you a christian perchance ?] but don’t be so kindhearted.

MK's family are persecuting AK (apparently) so in a retrocausal karmic kind of way perhaps she deserved to die.
After all its as a result of her death [ ignore for a moment who the guilty parties are] that Britney is undergoing this trauma.

If there is any family you should weep for it is RS's family.

Here he is [ the victim of one of the greatest miscarriages of justice of all time] and only weeks after his press conf where he said AK wasn’t his alibi and he's not sure of her whereabouts earlier in the 'evening'– what happens?
His crazy family start planting stories in the press about AK's links to convicted drugs traffickers [with 'stabby' associates] that imply she was involved in the murder with associates other than RS.
Talk about bad luck ! And bad timing.

One wonders what his lawyer[GB] makes of all this.

So perhaps you should redirect your thoughts to RS's family – obviously the devil has entered their homes and hearts.
Is there anything to be said for saying a 'mass' . Would that help.
Just to be on the safe side – a goat sacrifice mightn’t go amiss. Best to cover all the bases.
 
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Oh Bill.
Bill Bill Bill – your empathy does you proud [are you a christian perchance ?] but don’t be so kindhearted.

MK's family are persecuting AK (apparently) so in a retrocausal karmic kind of way perhaps she deserved to die.After all its as a result of her death [ ignore for a moment who the guilty parties are] that Britney is undergoing this trauma.

If there is any family you should weep for it is RS's family.

Here he is [ the victim of one of the greatest miscarriages of justice of all time] and only weeks after his press conf where he said AK wasn’t his alibi and he's not sure of her whereabouts earlier in the 'evening'– what happens?
His crazy family start planting stories in the press about AK's links to convicted drugs traffickers [with 'stabby' associates] that imply she was involved in the murder with associates other than RS.
Talk about bad luck ! And bad timing.

One wonders what his lawyer[GB] makes of all this.

So perhaps you should redirect your thoughts to RS's family – obviously the devil has entered their homes and hearts.
Is there anything to be said for saying a 'mass' . Would that help.
Just to be on the safe side – a goat sacrifice mightn’t go amiss. Best to cover all the bases.

This must rank as the most disgusting strawmen arguments I've witnessed. It does no one proud, not the Kerchers, not anyone.

All so that the main point of my post can be completely ignored.

That point was that the cops did not even search the woods near the cottage for a knife, initially thinking they had the knife. The cops demonstrably fumbled the investigation. Then Mignini discovered a one-knife theory simply was not going to work - yes, even Mignini was embarrassed to try what the next prosecutor Crini (in Florence) tried - namely equate the kitchen knife from Raffaele's with the bedsheet outline of a smaller knife, Mignini tried to argue a two-knife theory. The failure to even search for a second knife was the point you missed.

Congratulations platonov. What a vile, strawman argument.
 
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RVWBWL, thank you again for the detailed research regarding the two possible hairs found in Meredith's grasp and near her crotch area.

How reliable are Vogt's account and footnotes of the discovery and bagging of the possible human hairs? Does anyone know if Stefanoni tested them and, if so, did she determine if they are fibers or are they confirmed human? Would this information be available to the defense, even if it is not generally known? Did the defense raise the issue of hairs in the trials?

From experts critiques of Stefanoni's testing, I would like a second (independent) opinion on any test procedure and results Stefanoni claims regarding the two possible human hairs that she supposedly (according to Vogt) collected and bagged at the murder scene. :confused:
 
Oh Bill.
Bill Bill Bill – your empathy does you proud [are you a christian perchance ?] but don’t be so kindhearted.

MK's family are persecuting AK (apparently) so in a retrocausal karmic kind of way perhaps she deserved to die.
After all its as a result of her death [ ignore for a moment who the guilty parties are] that Britney is undergoing this trauma.

If there is any family you should weep for it is RS's family.

Here he is [ the victim of one of the greatest miscarriages of justice of all time] and only weeks after his press conf where he said AK wasn’t his alibi and he's not sure of her whereabouts earlier in the 'evening'– what happens?
His crazy family start planting stories in the press about AK's links to convicted drugs traffickers [with 'stabby' associates] that imply she was involved in the murder with associates other than RS.
Talk about bad luck ! And bad timing.

One wonders what his lawyer[GB] makes of all this.

So perhaps you should redirect your thoughts to RS's family – obviously the devil has entered their homes and hearts.
Is there anything to be said for saying a 'mass' . Would that help.
Just to be on the safe side – a goat sacrifice mightn’t go amiss. Best to cover all the bases.

As a game, let us pretend that Amanda and Raffaele have no alibi, you still have this little problem of no evidence of them having committed the crime.

You have a knife a knife that does not fit the murder and bra clasp that was handled by dirty gloves. Basically, nothing.

Then on the other hand you have Rudy Guede with ample evidence at the crime scene including bloody hand prints and immediately fleeing the country ignoring DNA results. Do not even have any real connection between Amanda and Raffaele with him.

The math is real simple if you are willing to follow it. :boggled:
 
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