Obama is the worst president since WWII

[John Jones]

Looking at Wikipedia Obama was ranked 15th by the only scholarly ranking that included him. W's aggregate score ranked him 34th and Carter's aggregate ranked him 27th.

In case you were wondering the Presidents worse the W are:
Taylor, Tyler, Grant, Fillmore, W.H. Harrison, Pierce, A. Johnson, Buchanan and Harding.

Say what?

 

[johnny karate]

Cheer up, Dems! He's only the worst of the last 13. He's clearly a notch or two above Millard Fillmore.

You say that like this poll is somehow definitive or should be taken seriously.

Weird.

 

[Delvo]

I don't think it makes sense to include a sitting president in the poll.

Ya, there's always a tendency to think that what you're most familiar with at the moment is the "most" whatever ever.

I can understand not liking Obama and disagreeing with his politics, but I'm not sure by what objective measure we can judge him a worse president than Bush.

To piggyback on your list, here are things that occurred on Bush's watch:

- 9/11

Sane people realize that this is not a Presidential action.

- The starting of two costly and protracted wars

...Which had reasons for them and purposes to serve by them, which some people support. War isn't necessarily inherently always a bad policy to most people. Some do take pacifism to an absolute level, but even they are aware that other people think otherwise, so they can't be surprised to see that fact illustrated.

You can, of course, argue that these particular "wars" were bad ones, but, such an argument would still have the acknowledgment built in that there can possibly be such a thing as a good one. And that means the "starting wars" thing can not inherently be expected to make a President come up on the "bad" side of a poll. The results of such a poll, including for a President who "started wars", would depend on exactly the kind of details that you'd be debating and thus know are debatable.

- The mishandling of the Hurricane Katrina aftermath

Also debatable, not only on whether there actually was any mishandling but also on how whatever mishandling there might have been is connected to a President. Just "something bad happened" is not a President's fault by axiom, not even for a Republican one.

- The crashing of the economy

Sane people realize that this is not a Presidential action (and the timing doesn't work out for a partisan simplistic tale in either direction anyway).

Can anyone point to one thing on Obama's watch that competes with any of that?

Abandoning Iraq not only isn't working out well right now but is also making the occupation look better retroatively. Of course, it was at Iraq's own request and carrying out the previous American President's policy of honoring such a request on the already-agreed-to schedule, but hey, if holding one President responsible for stuff that's not of his choosing is OK, then it must be OK to do the same to another President, too, right?

Also, economic trouble has continued throughout this Presidency, and the health care bill, the biggest single thing he's going down in history for, has not exactly gone according to plan.

And, unlike any item in the anti-Bush list, at least these three things include a couple that indisputably actually have something to do with Obama's actions, instead of just his being someone the list-maker wants to sling stuff at.

 

[Delvo]

Say what?

"worse the" ← "worse than"

 

[Lisa Simpson]

Say what?

Worse than. I'm sorry if the context wasn't there.

 

[Neally]

Is this a poll of historians or political scientists? Or just average people who also probably believe in creationism and ghosts?

-Translation: Poll/Election outcome isn't what I want, therefore people are stupid. When Poll/Election outcome is what I want, people are smart enough to see through the lies on the other side.

Both sides play the above script after all polls/elections.

 

[Meed]

I don't think it makes sense to include a sitting president in the poll.

My vote for worst president since WWII is Mr. Guns and Butter, Lyndon Johnson. He lied to get us into Vietnam. His legacy is 50,000 Americans dead and many more permanently damaged to delay the inevitable collapse of South Vietnam for a few years. Plus we have him to thank for the War On Drugs.

The problem with the Vietnam war was not just all the dead Americans, but also all the dead Vietnamese and Cambodians, destroyed farms and crops, destroyed towns and villages, etc. And the fact that we were fighting to defend a side that was A) not supported by the majority of Vietnamese and B) a dictatorship. But yes, I agree, that makes Johnson a contender for the worst. Nixon deserves some of the blame too though.

That's what I just don't get. I can understand not liking Obama and disagreeing with his politics, but I'm not sure by what objective measure we can judge him a worse president than Bush.

To piggyback on your list, here are things that occurred on Bush's watch:

- 9/11

- The starting of two costly and protracted wars

- The mishandling of the Hurricane Katrina aftermath

- The crashing of the economy

I can't blame Bush for 9/11 or for the economy (except to the extent that he was lax with business regulation, which is also a problem Obama has had). But I agree with the other points. And many more terrible things Bush has done could be listed on top of these.

Also debatable, not only on whether there actually was any mishandling but also on how whatever mishandling there might have been is connected to a President. Just "something bad happened" is not a President's fault by axiom, not even for a Republican one.

Well he appointed Brown the head of FEMA, probably not the greatest choice as far as emergency management experience is concerned. Brown was widely criticized for his handling of Katrina, although it's debatable how much of the incompetence was actually his fault vs how much was the fault of other people and agencies.

Also Bush lied and said that he hadn't been aware of the problem with the levees and the potential for disaster. Tapes came out proving that he was actually aware of these things.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

-Translation: Poll/Election outcome isn't what I want, therefore people are stupid. When Poll/Election outcome is what I want, people are smart enough to see through the lies on the other side.

Both sides play the above script after all polls/elections.

Did I say anything like you are claiming? No. I asked if this was a poll of historians.

 

[ravdin]

History proves that Jimmy Carter and Bush II were racing for the bottom as the worst US Presidents since WWII.

I have a few words of praise for Jimmy Carter. He deregulated the airline industry by removing government control over fares, routes, and market entry. He also legalized the selling of malt and hops to homebrewers for the first time since Prohibition. Next time you buy an affordable plane ticket because you have many options to choose from, or enjoy a fine microbrewed beer, you can thank Jimmy Carter.

 

[johnny karate]

Ya, there's always a tendency to think that what you're most familiar with at the moment is the "most" whatever ever.

Sane people realize that this is not a Presidential action.

...Which had reasons for them and purposes to serve by them, which some people support. War isn't necessarily inherently always a bad policy to most people. Some do take pacifism to an absolute level, but even they are aware that other people think otherwise, so they can't be surprised to see that fact illustrated.

You can, of course, argue that these particular "wars" were bad ones, but, such an argument would still have the acknowledgment built in that there can possibly be such a thing as a good one. And that means the "starting wars" thing can not inherently be expected to make a President come up on the "bad" side of a poll. The results of such a poll, including for a President who "started wars", would depend on exactly the kind of details that you'd be debating and thus know are debatable.

Also debatable, not only on whether there actually was any mishandling but also on how whatever mishandling there might have been is connected to a President. Just "something bad happened" is not a President's fault by axiom, not even for a Republican one.

Sane people realize that this is not a Presidential action (and the timing doesn't work out for a partisan simplistic tale in either direction anyway).

Whether or not any of these things are directly Bush's fault, they did happen during his presidency, and it's not like they were unforeseeable acts of god. Being the guy in charge, he bears at least some responsibility for them, no matter how much you might wish to rationalize it away.

Abandoning Iraq not only isn't working out well right now but is also making the occupation look better retroatively. Of course, it was at Iraq's own request and carrying out the previous American President's policy of honoring such a request on the already-agreed-to schedule, but hey, if holding one President responsible for stuff that's not of his choosing is OK, then it must be OK to do the same to another President, too, right?

Also, economic trouble has continued throughout this Presidency, and the health care bill, the biggest single thing he's going down in history for, has not exactly gone according to plan.

So... unrest in the Middle East, a not-exactly robust economy that is actually in better shape then when he came into office, and a few bumps in the road for a historic piece of legislation that is largely accomplishing what it was intended to.

Yes, Obama is truly history's greatest monster.

And, unlike any item in the anti-Bush list, at least these three things include a couple that indisputably actually have something to do with Obama's actions, instead of just his being someone the list-maker wants to sling stuff at.

Hey, feel free to "sling stuff".

Oh wait... you tried that and still came up with nothing really.

Would you like to try again? Because I'm still not seeing the objective measure that makes Obama a worse president than Bush.

 

[I Ratant]

Just about everyone I talk to or listen to hates Obie.
Some I won't even acknowledge their existence any more, they obsess so much on Obie!
And yet, I haven't seen anything from his administration that compares to the disaster of W's.
And the haters are praising W.
WTF!

 

[Polaris]

WWII was one really terrible president.

 

[maxpower1227]

I have a few words of praise for Jimmy Carter. He deregulated the airline industry by removing government control over fares, routes, and market entry. He also legalized the selling of malt and hops to homebrewers for the first time since Prohibition. Next time you buy an affordable plane ticket because you have many options to choose from, or enjoy a fine microbrewed beer, you can thank Jimmy Carter.

He's also the only president in the category who managed to complete his term without firing a shot. Sadly he gets no real credit for this and is considered one of our worst presidents by the same idiots who think Reagan was one of the best.

 

[Cleon]

The best-selling brand of beer in the United States is Bud Light. I'll leave it to the reader to determine what that says about the aggregate opinions of Americans.

Seriously, though, this is the sort of thing that will be determined by historians and sociologists, not opinion polls.

 

[Neally]

Did I say anything like you are claiming? No. I asked if this was a poll of historians.

What about the rest of the quote? Clearly the implication was exactly what my translation suggested.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Can anyone point to one thing on Obama's watch that competes with any of that?

Oh! Oh! I know this one!

*ahem*

Benghazi!

 

[Corsair 115]

I have a few words of praise for Jimmy Carter. He deregulated the airline industry by removing government control over fares, routes, and market entry. He also legalized the selling of malt and hops to homebrewers for the first time since Prohibition.

There's another fun fact: unemployment was considerably lower under Carter's sole term than it was under Reagan's first term. Indeed, if you graph the data, you find that Reagan's results are the inverse of Carter's. It wasn't until Regan's second term that unemployment rates started to decline. GDP growth also faired better too under Carter than Reagan's first term.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

I have a few words of praise for Jimmy Carter. He deregulated the airline industry by removing government control over fares, routes, and market entry. He also legalized the selling of malt and hops to homebrewers for the first time since Prohibition. Next time you buy an affordable plane ticket because you have many options to choose from, or enjoy a fine microbrewed beer, you can thank Jimmy Carter.

Carter is an honest, decent and moral man. This alone made him one of the least efficacious presidents in American history.

 

[Ladewig]

The complete survey statistics
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-...y-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2056

 

[Ladewig]

-Translation: Poll/Election outcome isn't what I want, therefore people are stupid
.

From the survey
"From June 24 - 30, Quinnipiac University surveyed 1,446 registered voters nationwide with a margin of error of +/- 2.6 percentage points. Live interviewers call land lines and cell phones. "

I am not convinced that very many people in a random sampling of 1446 voters could accurately describe the differences between the administrations of Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, and Ford. If they cannot accurately describe what these men did right and did wrong, their opinions may not be worth very much in such a wide ranging poll.