Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Kaosium]

Hiya Kaosium,
I find it weird that Guede had his screensaver photo already on the stolen laptop, and his SIM in the stolen phone too.

Per Rudy Guede and PLE:
However then in the morning I saw this lady and a child and some men, I explained everything to the lady, how things had happened, and I said to the lady to call the Police. Then the Police came who then seized my cell phone and computer.
Napoleoni: Was the cell phone yours Rudy?
Guede: The cell phone wasn’t mine, it wasn’t mine… in the sense that I hadn’t bought it… Pros. Mignini: Do you remember the number?
Guede: My SIM number yes
Pros. Mignini: The one they seized in Milan
Guede: The SIM was mine but not the cell phone
Napoleoni: Can you tell us the number of the SIM
Guede: 329.1819627 and from that moment I never had a cell phone again
Napoleoni: Sorry Rudy, this SIM card, do you remember when you used it?
Guede: Since a long time… it was actually in my name…


Hmmmm,
Guede says that he didn't buy the cell phone.
I wonder if the laptop seller gave him a free phone when he purchased the computer?
Or did he steal it himself?

I guess maybe Rudy thought that would make it easier to sell both items when he,
(lookin' a bit disheveled after partyin' + dancin' the last few days when in Milan),
was meeting customers out and about town if he personalized the phone and computer?

I can just see Guede walkin' up to a stranger,
"Hey, wanna buy my cellphone"?
"If you're interested, I'll make ya a great deal on my laptop"...


Didn't Rudy have some stolen keys on him also?
How would a cop know that they were stolen?
Stolen from where? The Lawyers Office?
If so, what a weird coincidence.

Maybe Guede was gonna sell the keys also...
RW

Heh, maybe he was lying through his teeth about the whole thing? I mean, who on earth goes some 300 miles away and spends his last bit of cash on a computer and cellphone which requires him to sneak into a nursery to have a place to sleep for the night? Or, who goes on a 'fencing' trip dead broke because they spent their dwindling cash on a stolen cellphone and computer meaning they must creep into a nursery to spend the night as they're some 300 miles away from home?

I think things may have gotten too 'hot' for Rudy in Perugia, which is why he was on this otherwise inexplicable trip to Milan. Perhaps it had gotten so 'hot' because one night after returning from the bar he broke into his neighboring landlady's place while she was gone and in his drunken stumbling around making some food while he helped himself to her valuables he managed to start a fire. As he correctly surmised she would suspect him and he didn't want to be answering questions from the police in Perugia or them finding that laptop and cellphone that they sure as hell wouldn't believe he bought from anyone else...

Reading through that excerpt from the court transcript you posted, wasn't it nice of PM Mignini to avoid asking him just what he meant by the fact the cellphone wasn't his and he hadn't bought it?

 

[el buscador]

It must mean something, I agree. Let's put that one with the 'what attracted their attention?' question re: the recent car park CCTV pics. In fact, there is quite a collection of these mysteries. Btw. on the car park thing I believe it must have been something they heard. It was dark and there was nothing to see in the direction of the house. It must have been a sound. Was Guede howling at the moon in some freaked out state?

I've wondered if perhaps it was a cat fight the people were hearing. Didn't Meredith's boyfriend leave a window open for his cat? Perhaps another cat got in through the window and the 2 cats fought. Cat fights can be prolonged as 2 cats face off and stare at each other, the growling and snarling sometimes low key and at other times really loud as they attack. An inside cat fight might account for the blood downstairs. IIRC rudy wrote that he heard an unusual sound downstairs, also.

 

[Diocletus]

Which may also explain why the electropherogram from the first run on the bra clasp was withheld: it did not indicate Raffaele's DNA contributed to the sample. It would also suggest a motive for storing the bra clasp in extraction buffer ensuring it was rendered useless for further DNA analysis: that wouldn't show Raffaele's DNA either if another sample was taken and boy that might be tough to explain....

It's worth keeping in mind the chronology of the 165b work:

1. First, there was the No. 681, plate 410 autosomal profile, probably processed on January 3 or 4. The egram has been withheld. Presumably, Stefanoni would say that the profile wasn't "useful."

2. Second, Stefanoni goes ahead and runs a Y profile of 165b, this time in plate no. 413, which I estimate was processed on January 7 or 8. Why would she run a Y profile on this sample if she didn't end up with anything useful in the prior autosomal analysis? Also, plate 413 is strange because it contains both autosomal and Y amplifications, and only 5 out of the presumably 16 or more profiles from this plate are known (lots of gaps). The ISC is claiming that it had been a long time since Sollecito's DNA was handled in the lab, and yet, it has no idea what was done in most of the other spots in plate no. 413.

3. Third, after running plate 413, she ends up generating the No. 681 autosomal profile, but now it is in plate no. 414 (instead of 410), probably occurring on January 8 or 9. Presumably, it was the finding from the Y profile that made her go back to this sample to look for Sollecito's DNA, and what do you know, she came up with a useful, incriminating profile this time. Curiously, No. 681 is a standalone sample for plate no. 414, meaning that we are missing records for presumably 15 of 16 samples from this plate.

I am very suspicious about this entire sequence. Stefanoni needs to produce all of the records relating to plate nos. 410 through 414.

 

[acbytesla]

"It shows the corruption is deeply rooted and truth is a negotiable commodity. "

I am working on the theory that Rudy worked with the police as an informer, and did some other jobs for them. I would think that if the assassination of Meridith were a project that both the police and Rudy took part, they would do things in a way that fake samples of DNA and fake fingerprints would cause the mystery to go unsolved.
It appears that something went wrong with this plan.
There are 2 types of police that were not expected to work on this crime, the postal police, and the German police (they caught Rudy on the train).
Because of this Rudy's friends lost control of things.

Why? Why would the police want to "assassinate Meredith Kercher? Why would they want to kill a twenty year old college student who had been in the country for about 60 days. For the life of me I can't imagine why.

I also don't believe that Rudy was a police informer. I do believe the Perugian police on the behest of Rudy's wealthy adoptive parents helped Rudy get released in Milan. Grinder for example has always asked me why Rudy went to the law office and apologized. I believe his adoptive parents told him to, that's why. Or that he wanted to look good to his adoptive parents. It would be part of the story he wanted to tell them.

 

[acbytesla]

As Anglo pointed out putting the picture on the laptop makes sense in that it makes it appear that he owned it. Putting the SIM in would seem to expose him to getting caught as the cell company would know the phone and serial number he was using.

Not really Grinder, or at least not in November of 2007 The cell phone companies have always had the ability to track the serial number of the phone, but they didn't. They only record the SIM number in their database on the calls. I'm pretty sure that has changed in most of Europe now. There is a stolen cell phone database in Europe which allows them to make stolen cell phones useless making the incentive to steal them significantly less.

But this is not true in the US. In fact the cell phone companies have actually fought this implementation in the US because they think they will sell fewer phones.

 

[stilicho]

The problem that the ISC has to deal with, is the postal police happened to be in the neighborhood and the112 call resulted in the postal police arriving before the real police.
Because of this the postal police were the 1st cops to take DNA samples and fingerprints.
For the plan to protect Rudy to work, this was supposed to be done by certain local police, not the postals

Strange.

In the real world, meanwhile, Italian media has at last confirmed that Amanda and Raffaele have appealed their lengthy sentences to the ISC:

http://www.gonews.it/2014/06/16/omi...manda-knox-e-raffaele-sollecito/#.U59NV3jftPM

There is a significant chance that both murderers will be in jail by the end of the calendar year. Law-abiding citizens in both the US and Italy may sleep safer.

 

[Desert Fox]

Strange.

In the real world, meanwhile, Italian media has at last confirmed that Amanda and Raffaele have appealed their lengthy sentences to the ISC:

http://www.gonews.it/2014/06/16/omi...manda-knox-e-raffaele-sollecito/#.U59NV3jftPM

There is a significant chance that both murderers will be in jail by the end of the calendar year. Law-abiding citizens in both the US and Italy may sleep safer.

I would like to be clear here. . . . xinonix does not speak for all of us or even many of us I suspect. S/he certainly does not speak for me.

That said, thank you for the information that they have appealed the verdict.

Not that I expect an answer but have you ever even considered that they might be innocent?

 

[Matthew Best]

Italian media has at last confirmed that Amanda and Raffaele have appealed their lengthy sentences to the ISC

Their lengthy sentences and their convictions.

 

[RWVBWL]

The blonde says "I killed her"

It must mean something, I agree. Let's put that one with the 'what attracted their attention?' question re: the recent car park CCTV pics. In fact, there is quite a collection of these mysteries. Btw. on the car park thing I believe it must have been something they heard. It was dark and there was nothing to see in the direction of the house. It must have been a sound. Was Guede howling at the moon in some freaked out state?

My guess?
The sound was from the blonde haired drug addict guy found wanderin' around by the ambulance drivers, covered in blood at 7:00am, he'd was howlin' at the moon after Meredith was slain. Guede knows him. He's Albanian, part of the local hard^^^ crew...

Link:
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/19361399.html

Possible JREF-ers?

I seem to recall a blonde hair found in Meredith's dying hands grasp.

I've recently had a gal pal hold up a dark hair strand from herself,
similar to the color of Meredith's hair on Halloween,
it looked a little bit lighter, but not like that blonde hair.
Wasn't there 2 blonde hairs found on Meredith?

How many blonde haired, bloodied guys,
possibly ^^^^^^ up on drugs, maybe more wasted than the night before, does it take to wonder if this is connected? 1 who is yelling, screamin' at 7:00 in the morning of a holiday weekend in November, probably right around daylight?

Why do we not know more of how this guy was so bloodied?

Who did he stab?
The cat downstairs?


I seem to recall reading a recent post by Annella elsewhere that 1 of The Umbrian newspapers wrote an article, which mentions this story and that this same person is still in a mental hospital, asylum or whatnot.
People know about him.

Wasn't he found somewhat near where Meredith Kercher lived and died?
Maybe the car park folks on video heard him screamin'. Or Nara.
Wouldn't Curatolo have heard him too...

 

[RWVBWL]

It'd be interesting if the dude bloodied at 7:00am was Hekuran Kokomani.

And the dude who testified in court dressed in his finest
wearin' a hoodie, baseball cap and dark sunglasses in court was someone else...

Who wears a hoodie, a cap, and sunglasses to testify?
Weird stuff...

 

[Desert Fox]

Until and unless we get evidence of a second person involved, I would not argue for anybody else.
The size of the bedroom argues against there being more than one person present in my opinion.

 

[Bill Williams]

Their lengthy sentences and their convictions.

Apparently Raffaele's lawyers are asking for a United Sections ruling and a review of the DNA.

 

[RWVBWL]

Until and unless we get evidence of a second person involved, I would not argue for anybody else.
The size of the bedroom argues against there being more than one person present in my opinion.

But Desert Fox,
There is other evidence!
There is other, unidentified DNA on Meredith's bra clasp.
Rudy Guede's DNA is on her strap.

There were what, some 13 or 17 unidentified fingerprints found in Meredith's flat.

That bathmat footprint can be from many other guys.

If that is a wavy blonde hair, conveniently now lost.
Where did the other 1 go, the 1 found near Meredith's genitalia?
And whom does it belong to?


I'll ask again,
who shows up to testify in court wearin' a hooded sweatshirt, a baseball cap, and dark sunglasses?

What's Kokomani gotta hide?
Him self from the folks who look towards the driveway entrance and maybe saw him from the carpark, as we have recently seen on the video?

 

[NancyS]

Strange.

In the real world, meanwhile, Italian media has at last confirmed that Amanda and Raffaele have appealed their lengthy sentences to the ISC:

http://www.gonews.it/2014/06/16/omi...manda-knox-e-raffaele-sollecito/#.U59NV3jftPM

There is a significant chance that both murderers will be in jail by the end of the calendar year. Law-abiding citizens in both the US and Italy may sleep safer.

And the fine and upstanding young hero, Rudy Guede, will most likely be free - hopefully he will be able to attend the PMF award ceremony and pick up his Man Of The Year award. You guys must be so proud, celebrating the conviction of innocent people and minimising the involvement of the man whose DNA was found in Meredith's vagina. Are you sure that PMF isn't Rudy Guede's PR Supertanker?

 

[Bill Williams]

Strange.

In the real world, meanwhile, Italian media has at last confirmed that Amanda and Raffaele have appealed their lengthy sentences to the ISC:

http://www.gonews.it/2014/06/16/omi...manda-knox-e-raffaele-sollecito/#.U59NV3jftPM

There is a significant chance that both murderers will be in jail by the end of the calendar year. Law-abiding citizens in both the US and Italy may sleep safer.

You could be right about the jailed part. However, my bet is you yourself would not want to be judged guilty on facts established at a trial you had no representation at.

I know I wouldn't.

 

[Desert Fox]

But Desert Fox,
There is other evidence!
1. There is other, unidentified DNA on Meredith's bra clasp.
Rudy Guede's DNA is on her strap.

2. There were what, some 13 or 17 unidentified fingerprints found in Meredith's flat.

3. That bathmat footprint can be from many other guys.

4. If that is a wavy blonde hair, conveniently now lost.
Where did the other 1 go, the 1 found near Meredith's genitalia?
And whom does it belong to?

5. I'll ask again,
who shows up to testify in court wearin' a hooded sweatshirt, a baseball cap, and dark sunglasses?

What's Kokomani gotta hide?
Him self from the folks who look towards the driveway entrance and maybe saw him from the carpark, as we have recently seen on the video?

1. Who knows - The bra clasp was bouncing around the floor for 45 days, handled with contaminated gloves, and processed in a contaminated machine. The bra clasp is useless.
2. Had plenty of guests plenty of times. They are not from her room as far as I understand
3. I see the footprint as effectively useless.
4. I don't have an answer
5. I also don't have an answer

The problem is that there will always be things that seem strange. I specifically do not see multiple people engaging Meredeth in a fight without leaving bloody fingerprints and foot prints in the room.

 

[Bill Williams]

Strange.

In the real world, meanwhile, Italian media has at last confirmed that Amanda and Raffaele have appealed their lengthy sentences to the ISC:

http://www.gonews.it/2014/06/16/omi...manda-knox-e-raffaele-sollecito/#.U59NV3jftPM

There is a significant chance that both murderers will be in jail by the end of the calendar year. Law-abiding citizens in both the US and Italy may sleep safer.

Guilters just want Knox in jail, apparently for no reason.

Otherwise guilters would at the very least comment on this little snippet of Nencini's motivations where he says that women have Y-genetic material, and this is part of the reason why Knox is guilty....

​

All for the sake of protecting this man, whos is now out of harm's way as to the charges brought against him in the Narducci affair.

​

 

[Grinder]

Supposedly Cristian Tramontano came forth in early Jan. of 2008
to report to Perugia law enforcement that he was a victim of Rudy Guede's crime spree.

Didn't most everyone in Italy at the time believe AK and RS were guilty?
Heck, even Frank Sfarzo still believed so, if I recall correctly.

Maybe they did but they sure as hell knew Rudi was involved. He didn't name Rudi until after Rudi's picture was in the paper but claimed he had identified him at his club just after his encounter.

It is not credible that he didn't tell the cops as he had reported the crime when it happened.

When CT came forward, didn't he speak with Officer Napoleoni?

I've read that here but without some hard evidence I don't see why the head of the Flying Squad would be taking complaints of this nature in the middle of the night.

In Tramontano's house, it does not appear that the thief entered with the smashing noise that would have been produced by breaking the window with a rock (Tramontano states that he was awakened by sounds coming from under the mezzanine bed)​

I believe the confusion is that Cristian told Napoleoni about it after Rudi's picture was in the paper.

 

[Kaosium]

It's worth keeping in mind the chronology of the 165b work:

1. First, there was the No. 681, plate 410 autosomal profile, probably processed on January 3 or 4. The egram has been withheld. Presumably, Stefanoni would say that the profile wasn't "useful."

2. Second, Stefanoni goes ahead and runs a Y profile of 165b, this time in plate no. 413, which I estimate was processed on January 7 or 8. Why would she run a Y profile on this sample if she didn't end up with anything useful in the prior autosomal analysis? Also, plate 413 is strange because it contains both autosomal and Y amplifications, and only 5 out of the presumably 16 or more profiles from this plate are known (lots of gaps). The ISC is claiming that it had been a long time since Sollecito's DNA was handled in the lab, and yet, it has no idea what was done in most of the other spots in plate no. 413.

3. Third, after running plate 413, she ends up generating the No. 681 autosomal profile, but now it is in plate no. 414 (instead of 410), probably occurring on January 8 or 9. Presumably, it was the finding from the Y profile that made her go back to this sample to look for Sollecito's DNA, and what do you know, she came up with a useful, incriminating profile this time. Curiously, No. 681 is a standalone sample for plate no. 414, meaning that we are missing records for presumably 15 of 16 samples from this plate.

I am very suspicious about this entire sequence. Stefanoni needs to produce all of the records relating to plate nos. 410 through 414.

I am very suspicious of that as well, and spent much more time perusing your chart than it may appear. A possible innocent explanation for that sequence also occurred to me, but I won't give the intellectual filth any freebies: they can figure it out on their own if they know enough about it.
I won't be holding my breath.

Until those EDFs are coughed up and the entirety of the work done actually revealed that DNA is worthless as evidence against Raffaele and Amanda and only indicative of a corrupt prosecution.

 

[Grinder]

Heh, maybe he was lying through his teeth about the whole thing? I mean, who on earth goes some 300 miles away and spends his last bit of cash on a computer and cellphone which requires him to sneak into a nursery to have a place to sleep for the night? Or, who goes on a 'fencing' trip dead broke because they spent their dwindling cash on a stolen cellphone and computer meaning they must creep into a nursery to spend the night as they're some 300 miles away from home?

He didn't buy the computer or cell in Milan. He either stole it himself or was acting as a fence. He had his ways of getting to Milan economy style. Who goes "dancing" dead broke? At least the fencing angle makes sense to go to Milan since the loot was from Perugia.

Does it really make more sense for him to have gone there with no prospects of making some sales? How do we know he was broke?

I think things may have gotten too 'hot' for Rudy in Perugia, which is why he was on this otherwise inexplicable trip to Milan. Perhaps it had gotten so 'hot' because one night after returning from the bar he broke into his neighboring landlady's place while she was gone and in his drunken stumbling around making some food while he helped himself to her valuables he managed to start a fire. As he correctly surmised she would suspect him and he didn't want to be answering questions from the police in Perugia or them finding that laptop and cellphone that they sure as hell wouldn't believe he bought from anyone else...

Have a police report on this "robbery"? Or maybe he went out of town to unload some stolen merchandise.

Was he in fact questioned about the great crime wave sweeping Perugia?

Now under your theories was he protected by the PLE and therefore had no need to run to Milan or not?