Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Grinder]

That was a very sweet shot.

Already linked but what does a duck know

 

[acbytesla]

I may not be clear where everything is. . . .Just trying to make clear that even if thrown upwards would not be a major problem for somebody fairly athletic.

The window is on the same floor as the parking lot. But since the cottage is on a side of the hill the bottom floor where Rudy probably started his climb is about thirteen feet below the window. If Rudy threw the rock from below he would have had to propel the rock upwards which I think could be done but which would be difficult for some people. On the other hand from the parking lot all you have to do is throw it from the same level. It would probably still travel about 15 feet but there is no need to throw it up against gravity.

 

[acbytesla]

Rudy was friends with the guys who lived in the 1st floor apartment. He watched an automobile race on their tv. Rudy would have noticed the girl's coming in and out of that house and he would have asked his friends about them, all the Italians went somewhere that holiday week end he would have seen Amanda waiting tables at le Chic so he would have expected Amanda would not be home that night.
It seems to me that he would not expect that there would be anything worth stealing in the girls apartment.
Rudy lived in the neighborhood, burglars usually go somewhere else to steal. It is highly unlikely he was there to do a burglary. There must be some reason why someone wanted Meridith dead and they paid Rudy a great deal of money. Rudy was caught in Germany, which is on the other side of Switzerland he may have put the money in a Swiss bank.

OK, that doesn't prove Rudy was paid to kill Meridith. But it seems like Mignini and the Perugia police must have had something to hide.
So what we Americans should do is keep trying to figure out why Rudy killed Meridith and how the police were involved until they leave Amanda and her boyfriend alone. While we may never know what really happened they don't know that we won't know so they might leave Amanda alone.

I'm not really sure that would be all that productive xinonix. In fact, I feel confident that we will never know. A couple of days ago a boy walked onto a school in Portland and shot a girl and then himself and we will never know why. Unless Rudy admits what he did and explains how and why he did what he did the answer will remain hidden.

 

[Planigale]

Rudy was friends with the guys who lived in the 1st floor apartment. He watched an automobile race on their tv. Rudy would have noticed the girl's coming in and out of that house and he would have asked his friends about them, all the Italians went somewhere that holiday week end he would have seen Amanda waiting tables at le Chic so he would have expected Amanda would not be home that night.
It seems to me that he would not expect that there would be anything worth stealing in the girls apartment.
Rudy lived in the neighborhood, burglars usually go somewhere else to steal. It is highly unlikely he was there to do a burglary. There must be some reason why someone wanted Meridith dead and they paid Rudy a great deal of money. Rudy was caught in Germany, which is on the other side of Switzerland he may have put the money in a Swiss bank.

OK, that doesn't prove Rudy was paid to kill Meridith. But it seems like Mignini and the Perugia police must have had something to hide.
So what we Americans should do is keep trying to figure out why Rudy killed Meridith and how the police were involved until they leave Amanda and her boyfriend alone. While we may never know what really happened they don't know that we won't know so they might leave Amanda alone.

The girls lived on the first floor the guys were on the ground floor.

 

[Dopre]

Rudy was friends with the guys who lived in the 1st floor apartment. He watched an automobile race on their tv. Rudy would have noticed the girl's coming in and out of that house and he would have asked his friends about them, all the Italians went somewhere that holiday week end he would have seen Amanda waiting tables at le Chic so he would have expected Amanda would not be home that night. It seems to me that he would not expect that there would be anything worth stealing in the girls apartment.
Rudy lived in the neighborhood, burglars usually go somewhere else to steal. It is highly unlikely he was there to do a burglary. There must be some reason why someone wanted Meridith dead and they paid Rudy a great deal of money. Rudy was caught in Germany, which is on the other side of Switzerland he may have put the money in a Swiss bank.

OK, that doesn't prove Rudy was paid to kill Meridith. But it seems like Mignini and the Perugia police must have had something to hide. So what we Americans should do is keep trying to figure out why Rudy killed Meridith and how the police were involved until they leave Amanda and her boyfriend alone. While we may never know what really happened they don't know that we won't know so they might leave Amanda alone.

Okay, I just can't remain silent here. This line of reason is pure conjecture coming from a conspiratorial viewpoint. Why must we look into every aspect of this case for meaning? Why can it not just be? This constant need to attribute every minutia of detail to a reason puts us on a very slippery slope. One that some of us here have found consistent in the PGP narrative.

1. Explain how you would know that Guede would have seen Amanda working there during this timeframe? As a matter of fact, Amanda was told she wasn't needed that night.

2. What proof do you have Rudy was paid a great deal of money? For that matter, what proof do you have it was sitting in a Swiss bank account?

3. What proof do you have that would lead you to believe Guede was there to murder someone on police orders?

We can hypothesize this case with much in the way of reason, but not with this narrative. It is much easier to understand how the police might be working to railroad A & R within the context of protecting their careers. But to go down the avenue of Guede being paid to kill someone by the police, and with absolutely nothing that props up the contention does not serve us well. This feels like a fantasy...one that does nothing for our credibility.

 

[Grinder]

The girls lived on the first floor the guys were on the ground floor.

The boys lived on the first floor and the girls on the second or the boys lived in the basement and the girls on the first floor - but then you think the cover over an engine is a bonnet when we all know it's a hood.

 

[Desert Fox]

We can hypothesize this case with much in the way of reason, but not with this narrative. It is much easier to understand how the police might be working to railroad A & R within the context of protecting their careers. But to go down the avenue of Guede being paid to kill someone by the police, and with absolutely nothing that props up the contention does not serve us well. This feels like a fantasy...one that does nothing for our credibility.

I think there is a large dose of confirmation bias. . . .
Once they believed that Amanda was responsible, they just could not let go of it. I think many cases of false arrests and convictions are similar in that respect.

 

[Dopre]

Confirmation bias is the backbone of cases like this. But, as of late I am seeing it morph into some pretty farfetched ideas when it comes to this speculating about why Guede was left to go on his crime spree.

When I first started following this case there were a few comments here and there that followed the line of thinking that xinonix has expressed here. But for the most part it was ignored. Now it seems it is picking up steam. IMHO I don't see it as a good development either.

 

[js202]

Confirmation bias is the backbone of cases like this. But, as of late I am seeing it morph into some pretty farfetched ideas when it comes to this speculating about why Guede was left to go on his crime spree.

When I first started following this case there were a few comments here and there that followed the line of thinking that xinonix has expressed here. But for the most part it was ignored. Now it seems it is picking up steam. IMHO I don't see it as a good development either.

My strong sense is that, a good portion of the time, xinonix has tongue planted firmly in cheek. Although the real life stakes of this case are of course very high, there is an undeniable absurdist element to what these wacked out Italians have put into play.

 

[Grinder]

Confirmation bias is the backbone of cases like this. But, as of late I am seeing it morph into some pretty farfetched ideas when it comes to this speculating about why Guede was left to go on his crime spree.

When I first started following this case there were a few comments here and there that followed the line of thinking that xinonix has expressed here. But for the most part it was ignored. Now it seems it is picking up steam. IMHO I don't see it as a good development either.

While I agree in general I don't see any evidence of the "crime spree". He was caught with stolen goods in a nursery where he had spent the night. There was no signs of a break in at the nursery and since Prato was there to have the locks fixed it makes sense someone let him in or told him how to do it.

Was he an outlaw of some type? Sure. Did he steal and deal in illicit goods? It certainly appears so.

Do we know enough to call it a crime spree? I don't think so and it really isn't very important. He was there that night and was involved in the murder. Others from the underworld (Koko and ?) were also in the neighborhood that night and could have been involved.

 

[Dopre]

Grinder......I've been watching the back and forth with you and abcytesla. I'm not touching it with a ten foot pole. ; )

 

[acbytesla]

While I agree in general I don't see any evidence of the "crime spree". He was caught with stolen goods in a nursery where he had spent the night. There was no signs of a break in at the nursery and since Prato was there to have the locks fixed it makes sense someone let him in or told him how to do it.

Was he an outlaw of some type? Sure. Did he steal and deal in illicit goods? It certainly appears so.

Do we know enough to call it a crime spree? I don't think so and it really isn't very important. He was there that night and was involved in the murder. Others from the underworld (Koko and ?) were also in the neighborhood that night and could have been involved.

Is it a crime spree if he burglarized the nursery twice, Ms. Maria Mandu Diaz, the law office, Christian Tremantono and the cottage?

I'd say that is a spree. I'll grant you that there isn't enough evidence to actually convict Rudy of anything but possessing stolen goods from the law office and the break in at the nursery. None of us will ever know for sure Grinder. I know I don't. And who knows?? Maybe it is a bit of confirmation bias on my part. But I think these incidents are far too coincidental to totally ignore.

As for the lack of evidence pointing to how Rudy got into the nursery. So? All it takes is one unlocked window.

 

[Desert Fox]

Do we know enough to call it a crime spree? I don't think so and it really isn't very important. He was there that night and was involved in the murder. Others from the underworld (Koko and ?) were also in the neighborhood that night and could have been involved.

Asked about that before. . .Haven't seen any evidence of anybody else involved?

 

[acbytesla]

From my perspective, the previous burglaries are only important as to demonstrate that there is more than a reasonable probability that the break in was real and NOT STAGED.

 

[Grinder]

Grinder......I've been watching the back and forth with you and abcytesla. I'm not touching it with a ten foot pole. ; )

Well then don't use "crime spree" if you won't back it up

Is it a crime spree if he burglarized the nursery twice, Ms. Maria Mandu Diaz, the law office, Christian Tremantono and the cottage?

Well since all you have is his possessing stolen goods and sleeping in the nursery, no.

I'd say that is a spree. I'll grant you that there isn't enough evidence to actually convict Rudy of anything but possessing stolen goods from the law office and the break in at the nursery. None of us will ever know for sure Grinder. I know I don't. And who knows?? Maybe it is a bit of confirmation bias on my part. But I think these incidents are far too coincidental to totally ignore.

No signs of a break-in. What is confusing about that? You know the April 1st prank that Amanda oulled which involved a staged burglary is FAR TO COINCIDENTAL TO TOTALLY IGNORE but you do don't you? CT isn't credible and Nina's story is backed up by nothing.

I have it on good authority that a new book about Amanda will tell of another rape prank involving knives and rubber gloves. The author won't be producing the police report she says the victim was looking at during the interview but assures one and all that it is true. Also, the victim later saw Amanda and had her banned from the coffee shop she (the victim) worked at but never told the police. Yes, Amanda was on quite the crazy spree and was clearly on the verge of acting out a version of her rape story.

As for the lack of evidence pointing to how Rudy got into the nursery. So? All it takes is one unlocked window.

Sure. I'll bet Rudy spent hours checking for open windows and just happened to find one where the owner had issues with the place having been compromised. Why do you think the locksmith was called? If Rudi just found an open window why not say so? The reports everywhere I've found say there was no sign of a break in and none of them say that a window had been left open.

Asked about that before. . .Haven't seen any evidence of anybody else involved?

Koko was there. Koko was later convicted of cocaine dealing. Koko was associated with Albanians and Albanians have a drug business in Perugia. Koko knew Rudi.

 

[stilicho]

From my perspective, the previous burglaries are only important as to demonstrate that there is more than a reasonable probability that the break in was real and NOT STAGED.

This statement is predicated only on the word of the powerful and connected public relations campaign engaged by the Knox/Mellas/Sollecito families to spread misinformation and confuse the casual observer. It is featured as #32 on a brand new list of the Top 50 lies produced and disseminated by the anti-Kercher brigade. The list is reprinted here so you can see how substantial it is:

1. Knox was summoned to the Perugia central police station on 5 November 2007.
2. Knox was subjected to an all-night interrogation on 5/6 November.
3. Knox wasn’t provided with an interpreter for her questioning on 5 November 2007.
4. Knox wasn’t given anything to eat or drink.
5. Knox was yelled at and beaten by the police.
6. Knox was refused a lawyer.
7. Knox was tag-teamed by two police officers every hour.
8. Knox was asked to imagine what might have happened.
9. Knox claimed she had had a “dream” or “vision” that she was at the cottage when Meredith was murdered.
10. Amanda Knox was questioned in Italian.
11. Dr Mignini questioned Knox on 5 November 2007.
12. Knox didn’t confess until 6am.
13. Knox retracted her allegation against Lumumba immediately.
14. In the days following Meredith’s murder, Knox voluntarily stayed in Perugia to help the police.
15. All of Meredith’s friends left immediately.
16. There were only two tiny pieces of DNA evidence that implicated her, but they were probably contaminated.
17. The knife has essentially been thrown out.
18. The knife doesn’t match any of the wounds on Meredith’s body.
19. The DNA on the blade could match half the population of Italy.
20. Meredith’s DNA wasn’t found on the blade of the knife.
21. No other knives were taken from Sollecito’s apartment.
22. The knife was chosen at random.
23. No control tests were done.
24. There is no evidence of Amanda Knox at the actual crime scene.
25. None of the Luminol* stains contained Meredith’s DNA.
26. Mignini is persecuting Amanda Knox.
27. Mignini claimed Meredith was killed as part of a satanic ritual.
28. Mignini claimed Meredith was killed in a sex game that went wrong.
29. Mignini called Amanda Knox a “she-devil.”
30. Dr Mignini was convicted of a felony and faced prison.
31. Rudy Guede was a drifter.
32. Guede had a criminal record at the time of the murder.
33. Guede left his DNA all over Meredith and all over the crime scene.
34. Guede left his semen at the crime scene.
35. Guede left his DNA inside Meredith’s bag.
36. Guede left his bloody fingerprints all over the crime scene.
37. Guede left his hair at the crime scene.
38. Guede pleaded guilty or confessed.
39. Guede’s prison sentence was reduced because he made a deal with the prosecutors.
40. Guede didn’t implicate Knox and Sollecito until much later.
41. Amanda Knox didn’t know Rudy Guede.
42. Raffaele Sollecito had never been in trouble with the police.
43. Sollecito had an impeccable track record.
44. Sollecito couldn’t confirm Knox’s alibi because he was sleeping.
45. Amanda Knox had never been in trouble with the police.
46. Amanda Knox was retried for the same crimes.
47. The Italian Supreme Court ruled that Amanda Knox’s interrogation was illegal.
48. The Supreme Court threw out Amanda Knox’s statements.
49. Dr. Stefanoni and the forensic technicians broke international protocols.
50. Amanda Knox is being railroaded or framed.

The full text is available at the TJMK and is even now being tweeted and retweeted to concerned individuals in the media.

At the JREF, we have become accustomed to exploding myths and relying purely on documentation such as the compelling reasoning of Judges Nencini, Micheli, Matteini, and Massei, along with strong scientific support and unbiased judgement. The list above was compiled by one of the most vigorous on-line supporters of victims' rights and all sources are properly attributed.

This document might become a good start for those new to the case who still labour under the illusion that Amanda and Raffaele were not responsible for Meredith Kercher's death.

 

[Grinder]

From my perspective, the previous burglaries are only important as to demonstrate that there is more than a reasonable probability that the break in was real and NOT STAGED.

The rock was clearly thrown from the outside. It isn't as clear that anyone actually entered through the window. The story is better if you have Rudi running around town throwing rocks through second story () windows and pooping while there. If the exact same type of evidence was used against the kids you wouldn't buy it at all, meaning CT and Nina.

Rudi could have entered through the window. Rudi could have thrown the rock and waited and in the interim Meredith came home. And it is even slightly possible that he had gone to meet her as the police first suspected and fearing someone knew of the date felt the need for creating an alternative knowing his prints and DNA would most likely be found. It is clear that someone could easily have entered through the window as the CH. 5 show demonstrated.

 

[Desert Fox]

Koko was there. Koko was later convicted of cocaine dealing. Koko was associated with Albanians and Albanians have a drug business in Perugia. Koko knew Rudi.

Evidence that Koko was at or near the scene of the rape and murder at the time of the crime?

 

[carbonjam72]

Time enough for a T.P. clean-up

I bet he wishes he would have thought of that (maybe there was not enough TP I noticed some girls kept a roll on their nightstands...or you know what else...he could have used that wrapping paper that Stefanoni used to wrap that mop....wait a darn minute....is this you there Stefanoni?

I personally think MK discovered him sitting on the toilet and yelled and screamed and ran back to her room...he killed her to silence her...he didn't have time to think and do something logical...no reason to assassinate the girl though...unless you know something we don't! I bet she was trying to find/use her phone.

He had time to use toilet paper, but didn't flush the toilet. Suggests he surprised Meredith, not the other way around.

 

[Grinder]

Evidence that Koko was at or near the scene of the rape and murder at the time of the crime?

Besides the fact that he said he was there?

How about this from the PIP's favorite wiki

19:51 First sighting of Rudy Guede on CCTV and a parked car outside the cottage, likely Kokomani. Time adjusted forward 10 minutes per the defense theory. Guede seen walking through the car park towards the cottage. CCTV time stamp is 19:41. [16]

20.01 Kokomani cell phone pings off tower that services the cottage. [17]
​

link

Now demand the same for other stuff like crime waves