Desert Fox
Philosopher
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Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case
- Thread starter Strozzi
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I think there is a fair bit of sleep walking going on.
Why is there not one great philanthropist in America interested?
Warren Buffet
Not senile yet.
Bill Gates
I don't think I am a nerd.
Come on you Americans, can't you do better than this?
This is not the job or obligation of anyone on this thread, but I am close to being totally dumbfounded by the process. Hillary Rodham Clinton will be the next president by Ladbroke's book, yet she ignored Amanda's plight while secretary of state.
Why is there not one great philanthropist in America interested?
Warren Buffet
Not senile yet.
Bill Gates
I don't think I am a nerd.
Come on you Americans, can't you do better than this?
This is not the job or obligation of anyone on this thread, but I am close to being totally dumbfounded by the process. Hillary Rodham Clinton will be the next president by Ladbroke's book, yet she ignored Amanda's plight while secretary of state.
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This is the most recent PMF contribution
I think Halkides is mostly right that the reason the images are blurred has to do with technical issues as well as the fact that the floor had been walked on extensively. It takes a lot of skill to do luminol well. This was a mediocre job. Too much luminol. Too long an exposure time on the camera. Garofano said as much. Still it's good enough to say that prints compatible with Knox and Sollecito are present, and taken in context with the bloody bathmat and other evidence that's pretty incriminating.
My view is that these contributions are valid ideas to be critically analysed right here.
I think Halkides is mostly right that the reason the images are blurred has to do with technical issues as well as the fact that the floor had been walked on extensively. It takes a lot of skill to do luminol well. This was a mediocre job. Too much luminol. Too long an exposure time on the camera. Garofano said as much. Still it's good enough to say that prints compatible with Knox and Sollecito are present, and taken in context with the bloody bathmat and other evidence that's pretty incriminating.
My view is that these contributions are valid ideas to be critically analysed right here.
Strozzi
Graduate Poster
I live in Washington DC. It is a small town. I meet people who are senior staff in the White House, Congress, Department of State, intelligence agencies, etc. They are discreet in casual conversation but talk with close friends and I hear third-hand insider comments about top leaders - enough to know that political leaders and their top staff are political animals. They and their senior staff are conscious of public opinion and government-insider opinion and navigate by it. Not a nice way to live, in my view.
Amanda's safety rests in the hands of 3 organizations:
1) US media which shapes public opinion which sways what US government offiicials will do.
2. US courts.
3. European Court of Human Rights.
Raffaele is a victim in Italy. His fate is determined by Italian media and Italian courts. And possibly the ECHR.
Frankly this shows the absurdity of Harryrag's position.
Postby The Machine » 11 Jun 2014, 13:22
Sallyoo wrote:
Here is a pic of one of the two traces found in FR room. (I apologise for being a bit sharp last night - I was in 'twitter spat' mode!) I'm trying to research it further - my Rinaldi/Boemia testimony/report is more of a negative comparison - they didn't have anything at all to say about these exhibits (176 and 177). As you can see from the photo there is no reason to run this 'spot' of blood past a footprint expert - but I accept that the possibility that it fell from a foot (whether shod or bare) does exist.
Machine says
I'd always assumed that this Luminol stain was an indistinct bloody footprint, but I can accept it might not be. Luciano Garofano claimed it was Knox's blood on the floor.
As Bill says he is backpedalling. This is more of same.
Postby The Machine » 11 Jun 2014, 13:22
Sallyoo wrote:
Here is a pic of one of the two traces found in FR room. (I apologise for being a bit sharp last night - I was in 'twitter spat' mode!) I'm trying to research it further - my Rinaldi/Boemia testimony/report is more of a negative comparison - they didn't have anything at all to say about these exhibits (176 and 177). As you can see from the photo there is no reason to run this 'spot' of blood past a footprint expert - but I accept that the possibility that it fell from a foot (whether shod or bare) does exist.
Machine says
I'd always assumed that this Luminol stain was an indistinct bloody footprint, but I can accept it might not be. Luciano Garofano claimed it was Knox's blood on the floor.
As Bill says he is backpedalling. This is more of same.
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Grinder
Penultimate Amazing
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I think the reportage would make it look ridiculous. The machine did operate properly and the manufacturer has no legal obligation to monitor each and every machine they sell. This wasn't a machine with defective aspects of which the manufacturer didn't warn the operator. From what I'm reading here the machine's output wasn't even available to the defense much less the manufacturer.
There is also a rule in law against frivolous lawsuits which this case would be judged IMO. The case would be thrown out immediately for a number of reasons including jurisdiction. Any attempt to refile would be met with sanctions and fines.
I come back to the idea that the defense and pro innocence people produce or get a show done that covers a few of the basics of the case.
- The "confession" and the notes
- The window climb
- The footprints
- The DNA collection, transport and testing
- The witnesses in particular Curatolo
- The missing evidence such as CCTV video
It would be great if an independent producer could be sold the idea and invite the prosecution to argue. This would be an opportunity for the industry to discuss the use or misuse of the machine. A competitor could point out that the machine used by the ILE had shortcomings while at the same time saying that had the ILE used it properly no DNA would have been found.
It would be necessary to have an expert on DNA that could explain it all in terms a 12 year old could understand.
I edited out my last three lines too late to miss your cut, but nothing you added makes me hope. This is a distortion of space time, and Einstein would be seeking new equations.
JREF2010
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I believe why they dont force the Rome Lab to be fully transparent is a system protecting itself.
Imagine the mess it would be, to make Stefoni and her results look corrupt.
And then maybe the entire Lab would be under investigation, which opens the Lab up for trials and every single case the Lab has ever done. How many thousands of cases would have to be re-opened if the Stefoni & Lab could be proven to have been using the tool incorrectly (or in a intentionally dishonest manner)?
It's why the stench of Italy's Legal system has risen to the ISC level, it seems to me. If it was all about little Perugia's corruption, aka Migninni and his Lying Squad, and Monica Napoleoni and Rita "the slapper" , then maybe it could have been a contained stench of corruption.
But the Rome Lab changes that, and the politics of maintaining this false purity of a System of Italy is what pulled this case into a bigger arena of politics and game playing. So the results we see are of the fake courts with fake interest in the truth, and in the end offering illogical ignorant verdicts like Nencini's.
The ISC unfortunately seem to have one goal and that is to present the Italy System as being correct, and all its Lab's are honest and correct...
I wonder, will the ISC go with science evidence from C&V, and free the two of this misplaced hate, or will the ISC uphold the Prosecutions Ouija board evidence?
Why not just do a youtube power point of Ron Hendry's break in forensics? I wish the best for the "kids", but they are ignoring this act they are convicted of. I would have noticed in 6 years discussion if either had ever objected to being convicted of this impossible act.
Grinder
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Grinder
Penultimate Amazing
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Form over function via Catnip
I think Hellmann may have labouring under a misapprehension originating from a mistranslation: common law judges do “make” the law, indeed, but it looks like Hellmann thinks that they “make it up”. And even more, it appears he thinks that they “make it up wholesale”.
In that respect, he shares something with the three accused and now convicted (1 definitively, 2 waiting).
The mistranslation hypothesis, that he is playing at being what he thinks cowboys should be like in what he thinks is a cowboy system (adversarial), is, in fact, a kind way to look at it.
Someone who is consistently inimical to one party across multiple, different, independent layers of approach (to people and their social position, to the jurisprudence of BARD, to gaps and inconsistencies in the defence case, to pieces of evidence, to methods of assembling a narrative from the totality of evidence, to the trial court findings, to appointed experts and their tasked duties, etc), – and for such weak reasoning, – is showing one of the hallmarks of bias.
I think Hellmann may have labouring under a misapprehension originating from a mistranslation: common law judges do “make” the law, indeed, but it looks like Hellmann thinks that they “make it up”. And even more, it appears he thinks that they “make it up wholesale”.
In that respect, he shares something with the three accused and now convicted (1 definitively, 2 waiting).
The mistranslation hypothesis, that he is playing at being what he thinks cowboys should be like in what he thinks is a cowboy system (adversarial), is, in fact, a kind way to look at it.
Someone who is consistently inimical to one party across multiple, different, independent layers of approach (to people and their social position, to the jurisprudence of BARD, to gaps and inconsistencies in the defence case, to pieces of evidence, to methods of assembling a narrative from the totality of evidence, to the trial court findings, to appointed experts and their tasked duties, etc), – and for such weak reasoning, – is showing one of the hallmarks of bias.
Bill Williams
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This description acquits the pair, even if it is true.
Clearly the PGP have Roman genes and believe that three compatibles equals a match.
Grinder, you are patient. I thought I would solve all this in a lazy 12 months
Bill Williams
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I actually do not know why Harry Rag is backpeddling, but he/she did it (apparently) on the bogus issue of mixed-blood. After 6 years of carpet-bombing on-line news-service comments' sections with the claim of "abundant evidence", and "mixed blood".....
.....he/she finally retreated to Massei's finding of Knox's "biological material" found mixed with Meredith's blood. Of course, Massei found that this could ONLY have happened in the act of Knox cleaning Meredith's blood off of herself, and sloughed off skin cells would have come off, too.
For normal people in the world, this is how some guilters become reluctant innocenters. One backs off enough to realize that there'd never really been any evidence, just claims of compatibility (where three compatibilities equals a match - apparently, only in Italy.....**)
** - I have three cars in my garage. When comparing basic shape, number of wheels which touch the ground, and body-style and colour, all three are compatible with them being Mercedes Benz's. The fact that all three are Dodge Darts should not delay our finding of guilt here....
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Bill Williams
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Randy is mad about all those arguments he loses....
And, ah yes, I certainly can relate to the length of some obscure, inbred sovereign's foot.
Actually back pedalling is a concept incompatible with bicycling, though unicycling relies on it. Seriously, did anyone ever back pedal from discovering explanations that accommodate the Raffaele withdrawal of alibi when refused a nominal date reference, or an understanding that Amanda would be dumbfounded by a declaration by her interrogators that he had withdrawn, her alibi, indeed did she imagine she needed such a thing ?
Let me say that I have never been asked to provide an alibi for anything, and particularly I would be fascinated for anyone from any side of this discussion to furnish details of alibis they have provided in their lives.
anglolawyer
Banned
That's an unusually revealing quote from Rag. Has Nonsencini had the dramatic effect of bringing the two sides closer together (i.e. bringing them closer to us - since they are wrong)? As I already said, Nencini makes it impossible for the guilters to maintain their slavish belief in the infallibility of Italian judges (Hellman, obviously a Mason and corrupt, apart). They can see what we can - he is human and capable of error, indeed grotesque error. And if he is such then there can be no rule preventing Massei, Micheli, Matteini and the Supremes from being wrong too. Oh dear.
Plus, he has made jarring findings about Rudy being a pro burglar. Uh oh. Try wriggling out of that. LOL.
In my formative years I was favoured with Rag describing the protracted criminal careers of A and R, contrasted with Rudy's impeccably crafted life.
Goddamn Nencini...
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