Endless Punishment, Fundie style

[Giordano]

Wrong, Giordano. The physical universe cannot be eternal, because of the impossibility of having an infinite amount of time elapse. The Universe is contingent, and cannot explain its own existence. That means the only option is to suppose a necessary substance that is not the physical Universe.

Cpl Ferro

Special pledging,anyone? Just curious, isn't God eternal?
Anyway, that clears it up. Thanks.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Wrong, Giordano. The physical universe cannot be eternal, because of the impossibility of having an infinite amount of time elapse. The Universe is contingent, and cannot explain its own existence. That means the only option is to suppose a necessary substance that is not the physical Universe.

Cpl Ferro

Wrong, Buttercup:

Another straw person (and typically poorly constructed).

Giordano did not claim that the universe was "eternal", that is , in fact, your unique addition.

What Giordano said (you can read it right up there) was that the same fancy footwork claim you make about your 'god' can be made for the universe as a whole; that is, the universe "had to be". Further, as has been pointed out to you, that approach avoids having to invent a 'god'.

And there is, in fact, actual evidence for the existence of the universe.

 

[CplFerro]

Special pledging,anyone? Just curious, isn't God eternal?
Anyway, that clears it up. Thanks.

Giordano, we're dealing with two different types of eternity here, a temporal eternity and an atemporal eternity. Temporal eternity is one, two, three, four seconds, time going on forever. Atemporal eternity is outside of time altogether.

If there is no necessary substance then where did the temporal, contingent Universe come from?

Cpl Ferro

 

[Giordano]

Giordano, we're dealing with two different types of eternity here, a temporal eternity and an atemporal eternity. Temporal eternity is one, two, three, four seconds, time going on forever. Atemporal eternity is outside of time altogether.

If there is no necessary substance then where did the temporal, contingent Universe come from?

Cpl Ferro

Obviously this "explanation" of a temporal versus atemporal infinity satisfies you. Okay. Have fun!

 

[Slowvehicle]

Giordano, we're dealing with two different types of eternity here, a temporal eternity and an atemporal eternity. Temporal eternity is one, two, three, four seconds, time going on forever. Atemporal eternity is outside of time altogether.

If there is no necessary substance then where did the temporal, contingent Universe come from?

Cpl Ferro

Ferro, ya foine broth of a ladya:

Since there is no need to invent a makey-uppy 'god' with all sorts of nifty (and contradictory) makey-uppy "powers" and unique, one-shot invented "characteristics" (which 'god' is neither demonstrated nor observed, but only asserted); it makes much more sense to avoid the makey-uppy woo! and admit that there is no such thing as your cosmically-"necessary" substance, and no justification for your "different kinds" of infinities; the universe did not "come from" anywhere (because, of course, "before" the universe, or "outside" the universe, there is no "where"); and the universe is not dependent upon any 'god' or 'god's' for any "creation ".

 

[Pixel42]

Either the concept of something existing without having been created is acceptable or it isn't. If it's acceptable for God to exist without having been created then it's acceptable for the universe to exist without having been created. If it's not acceptable for the universe it doesn't magically become acceptable for God.

Postulating the existence of a God to explain the existence of the universe gets you no further forward, it just replaces one question with another. Worse, it's a step back, because at least the universe is something we can study.

 

[abaddon]

Giordano, we're dealing with two different types of eternity here, a temporal eternity and an atemporal eternity. Temporal eternity is one, two, three, four seconds, time going on forever. Atemporal eternity is outside of time altogether.

If there is no necessary substance then where did the temporal, contingent Universe come from?

Cpl Ferro

The same applies to your god. The only difference is that we know the universe exists, but there is no evidence at all that your god exists.

 

[crhkrebs]

Where did the Universe come from, Giordano, if not from a necessary substance? Contingent turtles all the way back?

Cpl Ferro

You are so unaware of your continual use of circular arguments and special pleading.

And of course you miss the irony of your "contingent turtles" comment. Lampooning other myths* in order to bolster your own. It's such a Christian thing to do.

* see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Turtle

"But it's tortoises all the way down!"

 

[turingtest]

[Originally Posted by CplFerro View Post
Giordano, we're dealing with two different types of eternity here, a temporal eternity and an atemporal eternity. Temporal eternity is one, two, three, four seconds, time going on forever. Atemporal eternity is outside of time altogether.

If there is no necessary substance then where did the temporal, contingent Universe come from?

Cpl Ferro

Obviously this "explanation" of a temporal versus atemporal infinity satisfies you. Okay. Have fun!

It must be nice- satisfying, in fact- to just be able to make up more nonsense ("atemporal infinity"?) as you need it to support the nonsense you began with. I remember, as a kid, doing just this sort of "ok, new rule!" thing to keep my fantasies going; but then I grew up and out of it. "Sophisticated theology" is just piling crap higher and higher and calling it a cathedral.

 

[Donn]

Calvinball in fancy hats, explains religion.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Calvinball in fancy hats, explains religion.

Nommed.

Oogie to Boogie, your serve.

 

[crhkrebs]

Giordano, we're dealing with two different types of eternity here, a temporal eternity and an atemporal eternity. Temporal eternity is one, two, three, four seconds, time going on forever. Atemporal eternity is outside of time altogether.

Cpl Ferro

Seriously? Did you make this up now? May I ask where "outside time" actually is?

 

[Donn]

Ha, thanks. Turingtest did all the hard work.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Ha, thanks. Turingtest did all the hard work.

We'll see if the Pithtator can't non 'em together, then...

 

[Donn]

Seriously? Did you make this up now? May I ask where "outside time" actually is?

It's not a where, silly. Put it like this. You know place, and time? You know is, and the isness of being, and the external beingness of inner nothing which isn't yet is, but infinite?

Well, not that.

 

[crhkrebs]

You know is, and the isness of being, and the external beingness of inner nothing which isn't yet is, but infinite?

Well, not that.

Awesome, Don. Now if you just can shimmy the word "quantum" in there a few times, I can get you a job ghost writing for Deepak Chopra. Pays better than a real job too.

 

[Donn]

No one can pack it deep like the Deepack.

 

[turingtest]

Ha, thanks. Turingtest did all the hard work.

"Calvinball in fancy hats, explains religion" may just be the best summation of religion ever- it's certainly what I'll vote for. (CplFerro won't like it, but, hey, if the hat fits, he should wear it)

 

[CplFerro]

Seriously? Did you make this up now? May I ask where "outside time" actually is?

What do you mean by "where," crhkrebs?

Cpl Ferro

 

[tsig]

Seriously? Did you make this up now? May I ask where "outside time" actually is?

Somewhere beyond the event horizon of the formless where the fairies in the foliage live, where wishes are facts and the pleading is always special but justified.