Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[analemma]

Tapes were made in Mignini's office by him, in the prison but in the interrogation room no one is taped by the police:
"But in a police station, at the very moment of the investigation it isn’t done, not with respect to Amanda or anyone else."
In Italy I have never heard of the police taping anyone at the Questura under questioning. Actually, I wonder if it's even legal. I'm under the impression it's not done in Germany either (laws made after the war).
In 2007 very few police stations were equipped with recording equipment in the US as well. But prison recordings, wire tapping etc. were carried out all the same.
In the US as well as Italy, it's mostly your word against the police (certainly so back in 2007).
The court transcripts show this was not a forced confession.

"wonder if it is blegal?"
Mignini himself, in a CNN interview, said that integrogations should be VIDEO TAPED, but in this case it was not recorded to save money.
"Court transcripts show" that if you even imply that it was a forced confession, the Italaio Gestopo will charge you with insulting them and throw you in jail.
How come you do not know all this? We have gone over all of this a thousand times.

 

[Vibio]

Who cares about the US State Dept.

If I had to choose between their opinion about whether or not Knox had a fair trial, or the opinion of internet poster Diocletus, I'll go with the State Department.

 

[Dan O.]

Knox knows if she blames Rudy she has to explain how she knows Rudy was there. Rudy may be able to prove she was there as well. So she blamed another person as a distraction to buy time so she can learn what the evidence is. I think the fact she blamed another black guy and Rudy is black isnt a coincidence. What is the percentage of black pepole living in Italy? I would think it is is pretty small. She probably only knew a few black people. and maybe only Rudy and Patrick.

What a totally clueless and sick argument you have vomited forth. When did the police tap Patrick's phone and bug his bar? Do you think this was done while Patrick was being held in jail?

There is confirming testimony as to how Patrick's name came up in the interrogation. If you can't listen to the interrogation tapes, at least read the transcripts of the testimony.

 

[Vibio]

I don't buy this nonsense. In fact in 2007 a great many police interrogation rooms in the US were set up for both audio and video recording. And virtually all police stations would have some kind of tape recorder if needed. A mini recording device costs less than $50. Even in 2007. LMAO. You act as if 2007 was in the dark ages. It certainly was not. In fact I have owned a mini pen camera that fits in your pocket that records hours of both video and sound for probably 10 years.

You watch too much CSI. In 2007 still not many jurisdictions in the US had tape recording.

NYC.... please note the date 2012

http://abcnews.go.com/US/csi-inspires-nypd-video-tape-interrogations-commissioner/story?id=17272394


You have to be joking if you think $50 tape recorders would be allowed.

 

[Dan O.]

She told one of the roommates she had now showered.

If you look at pictures of her that day, she doesn't look like she showed. The police said she smelled bad and I think others testified to that too.

Another guilter talking point. Do you actually have this ability that you claim? Can you show the data from a scientifically valid study to test this claim? What did you use for controls? Oh, you haven't actually tested yourself, you are just making this claim after the fact because it supports your belief in guilt.

 

[analemma]

Meet the Knoxians.

And proud to be one.
The guilters seem to fail to see any danger in the espousing that the police, judges, and other government officials are always correct, competant, and uncorruptable thier decisions must never be questionsed or crticized, not matter how ridiculous they are.

 

[Vibio]

More about police recordings... this from at least 2004: " the fact remains that most law enforcement agencies do not electronically record interviews or interrogations. "


http://policelink.monster.com/train...ic-recording-of-interviews-and-interrogations

 

[Dan O.]

This is in response to somebody's "gotcha" post, I believe acbytesla but I could not find it.

Knox was specific in her "imagining" because she gave details like Patrick wanted MK bad, and she covered her ears. She didn't simply say he was there and killed Meredith. She talked about a rape before it was known there was a rape. She talked about a scream before it was known there was a scream.

However, her statement left her wiggle room to back out of it by referring it to how she imagined it. If she wasn't sure if her "imaginings" were right, she shouldn't have said anything. It comes across as she wants to accuse Patrick but not be held responsible for her accusation. That is what I meant by vague.

Did she? Have you listened to the tapes of that interrogation? Have you even seen the contemporaneous notes taken durring the interrogation? How can you say what she said as opposed to what the prosecution wanted to say she said without any evidence of what actually took place in the interrogation. And didn't you say that the interrogation itself was not used in the trial? So, why are you using it here?

 

[Bill Williams]

And I'm not surprised Bill Williams believes that Nencini says women have Y-genetic material.

I am glad you find me not surprised. What does "amica" mean in Nencini's motivations? You, yourself, have yet to provide a cite for any of your "beliefs". I provide you with the text of what Nencini says..... this says all one needs to know about things here..........

 

[Skind]

Tapes were made in Mignini's office by him, in the prison but in the interrogation room no one is taped by the police:

"But in a police station, at the very moment of the investigation it isn’t done, not with respect to Amanda or anyone else."

In Italy I have never heard of the police taping anyone at the Questura under questioning. Actually, I wonder if it's even legal. I'm under the impression it's not done in Germany either (laws made after the war).

In 2007 very few police stations were equipped with recording equipment in the US as well. But prison recordings, wire tapping etc. were carried out all the same.

In the US as well as Italy, it's mostly your word against the police (certainly so back in 2007).

Precisely : the prosecution went out of their way to make sure they recorded routine questioning of witnesses, in an office not otherwise AV equipped, but somehow didn't make sure extra special questioning of a specifically called in witness was recorded, despite being in a room apparently equipped for exactly that purpose.

Not sure what the US has to do with this, we have had recording in the UK for quite some time now, even to the point where an accurate record must be kept regardless of the location of questioning (and you must be allowed to view the record). Even informal interviews must result in some form of accurate written record, excluding any actual statement itself.

Regardless of legal status, we know the police and prosecution made great effort to make AV recordings of witnesses under questioning, and made great effort to recover incidental recordings from AV devices that we know to have been active within the building. Legality was certainly not a concern in numerous incidences before, so that cannot be used as an excuse.

No matter which way you try to cut it, the behaviour of the police on the night was a serious departure from their established behaviour.

The court transcripts show this was not a forced confession.

Great. You carry on believing that. It's not true, but I never contested that it was a forced confession (you may have noticed that I'm not Bill Williams). I referenced a form of false confession which is not of the forced sub-type. I even explicitly pulled you for confusing the two.

Please do me a kindness and respond to what I write, and stop having an arguement with some imaginary posistion. I spend time writing these posts, please have the maturity to spend time and actually read them properly.

 

[Bill Williams]

More about police recordings... this from at least 2004: " the fact remains that most law enforcement agencies do not electronically record interviews or interrogations. "


http://policelink.monster.com/train...ic-recording-of-interviews-and-interrogations

The fact remains that Giuliano Mignini told Drew Griffin of CNN in 2010 that he stopped Ficarra's interrogation ofKnox, quoting Italian law which required it to be stopped, because Knox was now a suspect, and hence needed by law to have a translator, a lawyer and the proceedings needed to be taped.

Argue all you want, but this is what Mignini told Drew Griffin. And then Mignini tells Griffin that he proceeded with a second phase of interrogation, under the guise of "intuiting" that Knox needed to make further spontaneous statements, so Mignini, clsiming he made no such suggestion to Knox, allowed her to continue, and he would act "as if only a notary."

It is amazing that posters here would defend Mignini in such a flagrant violation of the very law he not only swore to uphold, but which he himself says was the reason he stopped Ficarra's interrogation of Knox.

I, for one, am glad that you are raising these points, because new lurkers here might not have known about Mignini's CNN interview in 2010 when he admits to all this.

Thank you for harping on about your factoids.

 

[Diocletus]

If I had to choose between their opinion about whether or not Knox had a fair trial, or the opinion of internet poster Diocletus, I'll go with the State Department.

And I'll go with Czar Nicolas III.

Or, maybe I'll go with the ECtHR, since they actually have jurisdiction over the issue and a set of rules that apply.

 

[Dan O.]

I did. That story undermines her credibility. If she is making up stories about a bathmat shuffle then she is trying to hide something.

Look at this mental process of Aiken77. With no evidence that the bathmat story was fabricated he tries to use it to derive a conclusion about 'something'. We have a word for this type of process. We call it "GUILTER".

 

[Strozzi]

Thank you for posting this. I think it summarizes the Stefanoni LCN problem very succinctly.

Thank you for your post. Sometimes I get it right.

 

[Dan O.]

You are forgetting drug use. And testimony that the girls were not getting along. Drug abuse then getting into a fight with your roommate could easily lead to murder. Her weird behavior post murder indicates she has some issues, like her freakout when the police showed her the knives. The other girls didn't have that reaction and of course there was no evidence they committed the murder. When she saw those knives it hit home what she had done and she was looking at jail.

Piece of crap. This argument belongs in the toilet with Rudy's excrement. What drug is that you are talking about? Do you have evidence of its use? Do you have evidence of its effect? It's all been discussed here. You should read this thread series.

 

[NancyS]

Piece of crap. This argument belongs in the toilet with Rudy's excrement. What drug is that you are talking about? Do you have evidence of its use? Do you have evidence of its effect? It's all been discussed here. You should read this thread series.

I think we're back to the nonsense argument that cannabis makes you a crazed murderer and that heroin makes you an eagle eyed super reliable witness.

 

[Anode]

Where's Grinder?

 

[NancyS]

You are engaged in teamism and polarizing language. That is not the hallmark of a skilled and confident debater. Calling me a silly name doesn't refute anything I say. It is a power trip thing for you.

Why are you talking about me in 3rd person? I'm right here.

The story was fabricated because it is absurd. AK isn't known for being a clean person but she is worried about some water getting on the floor that she does some weird shuffle thing?

She claimed to have been worried about the blood and if somebody had been there but she is going to spend time shuffling the mat or just walk quickly to her room?

I think a better name is a Pro-Guede poster as by illogically insisting on the guilt of Amanda/Raffaele, based on no credible evidence, you are minimising the actions of the man who murdered and sexually assaulted Meredith Kercher.

And arguing that making up a ridiculous story about a bathmat shuffle proves guilt, is even more illogical than your argument that Amanda didn't shower after being involved in a bloody murder

 

[js202]

How was he a criminal if he was never convicted of anything or even charged with a crime?

You are 100% incorrect about this. Even Nencini disagrees with you. Do your homework.

 

[JREF2010]

More about police recordings... this from at least 2004: " the fact remains that most law enforcement agencies do not electronically record interviews or interrogations. "


http://policelink.monster.com/train...ic-recording-of-interviews-and-interrogations

You can try to defend the lie, but it doesnt work when Mignini and Giobbi and the ex-detective, fired for being corrupt, Napoleoni and her sloths recorded everything previous and post the interrogation.

Then you have the satanic-sex orgy obsessed Migninni lying on CNN about some fake budget cut he creates on the spot. Same as he did with the dual knife theory when his murder weapon failed and embarrassed him. But Hellman corrected it all with intelligent Independent experts and called in the Delusional Heroin Bum and he made everyone laugh and was escorted out, only to die in the police custody.

But thats all old stuff, Nencini's courtroom took the information to an even more dysfunctional level. He really just ignored it all and slapped a "fast-food" type verdict together.

All that will happen will be up to the ISC, if they uphold the Fast-Food verdict Raffaele goes to prison an innocent kid. I havent read anything that would put Amanda in trouble with this bizarre legal system of murder knives that have no blood on them and havent been cleaned.