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Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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Tapes were made in Mignini's office by him, in the prison but in the interrogation room no one is taped by the police:

"But in a police station, at the very moment of the investigation it isn’t done, not with respect to Amanda or anyone else."

In Italy I have never heard of the police taping anyone at the Questura under questioning. Actually, I wonder if it's even legal. I'm under the impression it's not done in Germany either (laws made after the war).

In 2007 very few police stations were equipped with recording equipment in the US as well. But prison recordings, wire tapping etc. were carried out all the same.

In the US as well as Italy, it's mostly your word against the police (certainly so back in 2007).

The court transcripts show this was not a forced confession.

Germany has specific laws which would prohibit this interrogation.

Also, without doubt, they violated her right to counsel under Art. 6 ECHR, and used the fruits of their illegal conduct in the prosecution. Clear fair trial violation.

See http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2013:294:0001:0012:EN:PDF
 
Also, without doubt, they violated her right to counsel under Art. 6 ECHR, and used the fruits of their illegal conduct in the prosecution. Clear fair trial violation.


A clear fair trial violation according to the Knoxians on the internets.

But the US State Department's spokesman said she was given a fair trial. Period. (they monitored the case from the beginning).

And what will be the ECHR's reaction? Wanna make a bet?
 
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Aiken77 you really must read Ms. Knox's clever trial testimony about her bathmat shuffle down the hall. It's quite something.
 
She told one of the roommates she had now showered.

If you look at pictures of her that day, she doesn't look like she showed. The police said she smelled bad and I think others testified to that too.

Which police? What were their names and page numbers in the transcripts? You're spamming the forum with tabloid talking points that weren't part of the trial.
 
It comes across as she wants to accuse Patrick but not be held responsible for her accusation. That is what I meant by vague.

Not only that, if it was the police to convince her that patrick was the killer, where was her WTF moment? " Patrick of all people killed Meridith?????" "WTF what for?" "He never stopped by our house.... why now"? "Did those two have a thing going?" "Who would have ever thought Patrick would kill" Etc.
 
I did. That story undermines her credibility. If she is making up stories about a bathmat shuffle then she is trying to hide something.

This is all well and good. But what's your assessment on the necessary velocity of the approximately nine pound rock Rudy Guede threw into Filomena's window in order to break into the cottage and murder and sexually violate Meredith Kercher? North or south of 140 mph?
 
This is in response to somebody's "gotcha" post, I believe acbytesla but I could not find it.

Knox was specific in her "imagining" because she gave details like Patrick wanted MK bad, and she covered her ears. She didn't simply say he was there and killed Meredith. She talked about a rape before it was known there was a rape. She talked about a scream before it was known there was a scream.

However, her statement left her wiggle room to back out of it by referring it to how she imagined it. If she wasn't sure if her "imaginings" were right, she shouldn't have said anything. It comes across as she wants to accuse Patrick but not be held responsible for her accusation. That is what I meant by vague.

You also believe that Scientific police do not use science to investigate a crime. You also will not comment on Nencini's claim that women have Y-genetic material.

Knox did not hear a scream, that was her testimony. When asked about a scream she said she did not hear one. (Why? Well, because she wasn't there.) So the police at interrogation said, "How is it that you cannot hear a scream?" She continued her tragic cooperation with this inane line of interrogation by saying,"I probably had my hands over my ears."

The information she gave to Ficarra proves she was not at the crime-scene. However, interrogations are not fact finding missions. Interrogations have one goal and one goal only. Confession.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrogation

Interrogation (also called questioning or interpellation) is interviewing as commonly employed by officers of the police, military, and intelligence agencies with the goal of extracting a confession or incriminating statements.

The Italian police confirmed that this was their goal and that this was an interrogation by saying, "She buckled and told us what we already knew."

Italian police know what an interrogation is. Why don't you?
 
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I believe she was killed shortly after she screamed. I believe the witnesses said they heard sceams around 11 pm or so but I do not recall right off hand.

I do not know why specific time of death matters. We know she was killed over night. We know AK and RS had no alibi for that night. The evidence exists against them regardless of what specific time it occured.

I believe the bum saw them that night sometime. It doesn't really mean much except that they didn't tell the truth about staying in.


He's back!

And regurgitating talking points like always. No supporting logic. No supporting facts. Just beliefs. He believes a witness that heard a deathly scream when she got up to pee then fixes a cup of tea and goes bact to bed without telling anyone that a girl may have been murdered. Then she gets up the next morning and goes to the square where she sees the posters at the news kiosk about the murder. He believes this witness and doesn't see the fatal flaw in her testimony.

He's going for the wide window on time of death despite the gastric evidence that makes later times impossible. He has to do this to break the alibi the pair have for the earlier times. And then adds the claim that they have no alibi.

And he believes Toto, another late commer, who claims to have seen the pair hanging out by the basketball court then doesn't believe Toto when it comes to the time they were there because Toto gives them an alibi for the entire time period when the murder could have taken place. He fails to recognize that Toto is constructing events that did not occure in the sequence that Toto claims. The party-goers and disco busses on the night in question. The space aliens in white suits and ambulance the next morning. This witness who can give times to the minute when requested to be more precise despite not wearing a watch and after over a year has elapsed is a discredit to himself and to the prosecution that brought him to the court.
 
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Not only that, if it was the police to convince her that patrick was the killer, where was her WTF moment? " Patrick of all people killed Meridith?????" "WTF what for?" "He never stopped by our house.... why now"? "Did those two have a thing going?" "Who would have ever thought Patrick would kill" Etc.

Are you Lumumba's PR agent ? You seem a tad bit sensitive about this guy JMO. What's your thoughts about him teaming up with Fabrizio Corona and original story of being beaten by the police and then changing it?

Corona November 23,2007. "I got in touch with him because he is an interesting character, which can break through. Unlike many other people in the show, at least he knows how to do something.”
 
When she saw those knives it home what she had done and she was looking at jail.

Are you a professional psychologist?

And it would seem you consider Amanda Knox something of a racist, given that, in your assessment, she only knew two black people. On what do you base such an assessment? Do you believe the fact that Rudy Guede left evidence of committing a break-in, a sexual crime, and murder all over the cottage should in any way be mitigated because he happens to be black?

Judge Nencini awkwardly acknowledges Guede's criminal past in his recent report. Do you accept that there is cumulative evidence that Rudy Guede was a criminal? Is it possible in your mind for a person to accept that Rudy Guede was a criminal and, in fact, committed this horrible crime against Meredith Kercher, without being considered a racist?
 
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"Those who are guilty will almost always turn on their companions as soon as caught. "

Amanda could have said that Raffael borrowed her key, left, and came back a few hours later.
If she did Rafael would be made into the suspect in the multiple attacker theory. Mignini could have said that Rafael met Rudy, and they went in and waited for Meredith to come home. Raffael put on one of those cover- all suits that hunters wear so the animals can't smell them. He had gloves on too.
When Meredith got home he did a sneak attack and cut her throat. He did this because he was a pervert who had always wanted to **** a victim while she was still warm. He had anal intercourse with her, and left her and Rudy in her room so he could have his way with her. While Rudy was doing something unmentionable, Raffael staged the break in and left. If Amanda testified that her bad boy friend had her key, they would have had just as much reason to suspect Rafael as they did Amanda.
 
Aiken77 said:
I believe she was killed shortly after she screamed. I believe the witnesses said they heard sceams around 11 pm or so but I do not recall right off hand.

I do not know why specific time of death matters. We know she was killed over night. We know AK and RS had no alibi for that night. The evidence exists against them regardless of what specific time it occured.

I believe the bum saw them that night sometime. It doesn't really mean much except that they didn't tell the truth about staying in.

He's back!

And regurgitating talking points like always. No supporting logic. No supporting facts. Just beliefs.

Instead of Mignini's timeline, or Massei's timeline, or Crini's timeline (which are maleable enough to accuse ANYONE of this crime).....

Aiken77 as offered the "just because" theory of this crime. Basically he/she is saying, "they did it, and the details pretty much don't matter."
 
The Italians? Less open about their sexuality than Amercans and Brits? LOL. Oh really?

BTW: that article is such BS from start to finish but it's perfect stuff for the Knoxians.

Where are all the feminists? Certainly not on the side of murderer Amanda Knox... found guilty of killing a woman.
---
"there's a bigger social issue at play here: People's lives are being ruined by sexism and lies." She is right-and she is an italian that sees it. The most awful thing about this case is that there is a chance that two young innocents will be sacrificed so that the senile and depraved morons at teh to of the Italain Injustice Sysytem can "Save Face" and collect their pensions.
This is TOTALLY a Frame Up using teh media and Zsex and lies.
The funny thing is that everyone knows that thsi is what is happening here.

"When I ask people what they think about the case, most of them say, "It's obvious to me that she is innocent!" yet rarely do people discuss the treatment of Knox or the impact this case will have on others or society in general. Why is it OK to lie to someone about their having HIV only to attain a list of sexual partners which would then be leaked to the media? This is an example of systematic character defamation -- the modern equivalent of throwing an accused witch into the lake to see if she drowns. What sort of pain must we put others through in order to forge our own versions of the truth?"
And
"This case jolts me in other ways as well. As an Italian-American, I am ashamed and saddened that this fiasco has painted, for some, a revolting picture of Italian culture. Italians aren't barbarians without a sense of logic, but this case isn't helping the image. The trial of Knox and Sollecito has exacerbated the idea that many Italians are operating a witch-hunt run by stubborn, macho and misogynistic character-assassins. I cannot help but agree."
This is the truth. This author has described the whole situation and the danger which it indicates, which is that Italian Government propaganda, without an ounce of truth behind it, can stir up the rabble to HATE KNOX(or anyone), they can employ carefully selected government trolls to use the internet to destroy her, just as the media did to Mindy Chamberlain, and the French to Dreyfus, using only lies, hate, and cover ups.
 
If she didn't notice the blood before she left the house that day, but noticed it the next day to the point of being scared, as she said, then it must have been deposited that night. It turned out to be her blood and MK's blood in there. How does her blood get there if she wasn't there. Did somebody prick her at RS's house and then deposit it in the cottage bathroom to frame her?

I really think the prescenes of her blood in the bathroom by itself is close to all you need for a conviction. Then they found some of her blood in the room with the broken window. Why would her blood be in there?

It is one thing to simply mindlessly repeat guilter factoids. It is quite another to make up factoids out of thin air.

No wonder you believe Nencini when he says that women have Y-genetic material.
 
Then they found some of her blood in the room with the broken window. Why would her blood be in there?

Yes, and, I also believe they found evidence of some of her sperm in the murder room. Now what do you make of that?
 
A clear fair trial violation according to the Knoxians on the internets.

But the US State Department's spokesman said she was given a fair trial. Period. (they monitored the case from the beginning).

And what will be the ECHR's reaction? Wanna make a bet?

Who cares about the US State Dept. They don't administer the ECHR, and they certainly didn't know about all of the data that the prosecution hid from the defendants because, well, it was hidden.

What will the ECtHR do? I don't know. But Italy has a very high percentage of accepted cases, and also, denial of access to counsel is a big issue for the ECtHR right now.

People like you should be hoping that the ECtHR accepts the case so that Italy has a chance to clear itself of these charges that it is smacking people around and violating their rights. Anyway, what good is a human rights tribunal if people whose rights have been violated have no chance of getting their cases heard?

If the case is accepted, either now or in a future petition, then I think she wins.
 
"there's a bigger social issue at play here: People's lives are being ruined by sexism and lies." She is right-and she is an italian that sees it. The most awful thing about this case is that there is a chance that two young innocents will be sacrificed so that the senile and depraved morons at teh to of the Italain Injustice Sysytem can "Save Face" and collect their pensions.
This is TOTALLY a Frame Up using teh media and Zsex and lies.
The funny thing is that everyone knows that thsi is what is happening here.

"When I ask people what they think about the case, most of them say, "It's obvious to me that she is innocent!" yet rarely do people discuss the treatment of Knox or the impact this case will have on others or society in general. Why is it OK to lie to someone about their having HIV only to attain a list of sexual partners which would then be leaked to the media? This is an example of systematic character defamation -- the modern equivalent of throwing an accused witch into the lake to see if she drowns. What sort of pain must we put others through in order to forge our own versions of the truth?"
And
"This case jolts me in other ways as well. As an Italian-American, I am ashamed and saddened that this fiasco has painted, for some, a revolting picture of Italian culture. Italians aren't barbarians without a sense of logic, but this case isn't helping the image. The trial of Knox and Sollecito has exacerbated the idea that many Italians are operating a witch-hunt run by stubborn, macho and misogynistic character-assassins. I cannot help but agree."
This is the truth. This author has described the whole situation and the danger which it indicates, which is that Italian Government propaganda, without an ounce of truth behind it, can stir up the rabble to HATE KNOX(or anyone), they can employ carefully selected government trolls to use the internet to destroy her, just as the media did to Mindy Chamberlain, and the French to Dreyfus, using only lies, hate, and cover ups.


Meet the Knoxians.
 
Tapes were made in Mignini's office by him, in the prison but in the interrogation room no one is taped by the police:

"But in a police station, at the very moment of the investigation it isn’t done, not with respect to Amanda or anyone else."

In Italy I have never heard of the police taping anyone at the Questura under questioning. Actually, I wonder if it's even legal. I'm under the impression it's not done in Germany either (laws made after the war).

In 2007 very few police stations were equipped with recording equipment in the US as well. But prison recordings, wire tapping etc. were carried out all the same.

In the US as well as Italy, it's mostly your word against the police (certainly so back in 2007).

The court transcripts show this was not a forced confession.

I don't buy this nonsense. In fact in 2007 a great many police interrogation rooms in the US were set up for both audio and video recording. And virtually all police stations would have some kind of tape recorder if needed. A mini recording device costs less than $50. Even in 2007. LMAO. You act as if 2007 was in the dark ages. It certainly was not. In fact I have owned a mini pen camera that fits in your pocket that records hours of both video and sound for probably 10 years.

The fact is the room that Amanda was being interrogated in was specifically wired for recording purposes. In fact Mignini and others confirmed that. The excuses given for not recording it have been varied and silly including that they didn't have the budget to record.

Now it wouldn't surprise me that the police in Perugia didn't record them because they want a situation where it is a "he said/she said" situation. After all, who are they going to believe? The suspect or the police?

When you say the court transcripts show that this was not a forced confession. Aren't you really saying that the police are saying it wasn't. In fact the transcripts show that the Police were relying on the Reid interrogation technique. A technique that is blamed worldwide for producing false statements and confessions.

PS. It wasn't a confession. I'm not sure, what it was. But it wasn't a confession. Note: Nothing was true about it. It was confusing as can be. Amanda never said she was involved.
 
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