Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Bill Williams]

Just to be clear, almost all women are XX chromosomes.
There is only an extremely rare situation where a woman has an XY chromosome. She would almost certainly know it because she would have been on hormone therapy early and had to have her gonad streaks removed. The idea of two or more being together would be very unlikely.

Amanda talks about having kids in her book. Those with XY cannot get conventionally pregnant. Also, even if she had that syndrome, if the cops could not figure that out they are beyond incompetent.

No this is not quite right. One of 30,000 people who are morphologically viewed as "women", are actually XXY, with three of the darned things.

And what Nencini is saying is that not one, BUT TWO of these XXY people had a Y-haplotype found on the bra-clasp.

Stilicho, as a recognized expert on inconsistencies, must be viewed as the compelling voice here. Just because the odds were 1 in 900,000,000 that two XXY morphologically female people had their DNA found on that clasp, completely rules out contamination.

 

[Desert Fox]

I think XXY females are even rarer that 1/30,000 because XY females are 1/30,000
http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/swyer-syndrome

 

[Strozzi]

The Italian courts have shown themselves incapable of adjudicating this case as it involves the courts protecting police, prosecutors, and the police lab from exposure and sanction for destroying, concealing, and falsifying evidence; witness tampering and intimidation; perjury; and many other improper acts. Otherwise, judges would have ordered the production and disclosure of all the evidence and sanction of the state employees who committed the acts.

I hope the Italian supreme court moves through its rubber-stamp process quickly, so that the defendants can soon take the case to the European Court for Human Rights.

 

[acbytesla]

The pro-guilt crowd jumps on every little possibly negative detail as if it blows the case wide open. And every time it ends up being nothing.

Nothing describes the pro-guilt nonsense better than what you have said above Bruce.
They color their descriptions of non-events as if each is a smoking gun when in fact they all end up being wet firecrackers, all sizzle and no bang.

There was a time when I thought Amanda Knox was guilty. But that was before I really new anything but tabloid headlines and tainted media. It reminds me of the shoe prints that supposedly matched Raffaele but in fact matched Rudy. When you actually drill down on the evidence, none of it is really persuasive. I feel sorry for people like Stillcho. I can't imagine going through life without a skill like critical thinking. I can see how someone without full knowledge might believe that Amanda and Raffaele are guilty, but I really question the faculties of people that have all the information.

Now, if someone would really like to make the case that Amanda went out and committed murder, and then talked Raffaele into helping her clean it up, then good luck to you. No one will care or listen.

Can you imagine your boyfriend/girlfriend of one week arriving at your apartment covered in blood and asking that you come and help clean up the crime scene? How exactly would that conversation work? "Raffaele" I just murdered Meredith. Would you please come back with me to the cottage and help me clean it up? What guy in his right mind would say yes?

Does Stillcho actually think the sex was so good with Amanda that he would make himself an accomplice to murder?
Seriously??

 

[carbonjam72]

calculating odds

No this is not quite right. One of 30,000 people who are morphologically viewed as "women", are actually XXY, with three of the darned things.

And what Nencini is saying is that not one, BUT TWO of these XXY people had a Y-haplotype found on the bra-clasp.

Stilicho, as a recognized expert on inconsistencies, must be viewed as the compelling voice here. Just because the odds were 1 in 900,000,000 that two XXY morphologically female people had their DNA found on that clasp, completely rules out contamination.

Not to be a fussbudget, but I'm not so sure calculating the odds is that simple. I understand the argument, just bugs me for some reason, can't put my finger on it.

By the way, if the Y haplotype came from an XXY, would that show somehow as different from an XY? Could that be deduced from data in some way?

Also, Nencini is beyond redemption, the motivation is not an argument, its a malicious invention. The arrogance is astounding.

 

[acbytesla]

I think XXY females are even rarer that 1/30,000 because XY females are 1/30,000
http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/swyer-syndrome

Well, that would make in a totally random situation finding 2 people at even 1/30000 would be 1/900,000,000.

 

[Bill Williams]

The Italian courts have shown themselves incapable of adjudicating this case as it involves the courts protecting police, prosecutors, and the police lab from exposure and sanction for destroying, concealing, and falsifying evidence; witness tampering and intimidation; perjury; and many other improper acts. Otherwise, judges would have ordered the production and disclosure of all the evidence and sanction of the state employees who committed the acts.

I hope the Italian supreme court moves through its rubber-stamp process quickly, so that the defendants can soon take the case to the European Court for Human Rights.

..... and when Amanda's lawyer in Florence hinted that Amanda had been abused at interrogation, the lawyer was quickly shut down by Nencini with a warning of the legal consequences - consequences applicable to the lawyer - of accusing the police or the PM of a crime.

When Amanda first said in court that she'd been hit at interrogation, it was incumbent upon the prosecutor to first and foremost investigate the allegation, before charging Amanda with defamation.

Manuela Comodi, Mignini's second, investigated the crime. She called in Rita Ficarra and asked, "Did you hit her?" Ficarra said, "No." That was the investigation.

There are now 8 people enjoined in the defamation against Knox based on her saying she'd been hit at interrogation. Hell, Kurt and Edda were also indicted because they repeated this to John Follain, who in turn wrote about it in The Telegraph.

Not surprisingly, neither the publisher nor John Follain were so indicted. If you've read Follain's book, you'll know why. Such is the result of Comodi's stellar investigative skills and insight.

To ask the Italian courts to both order and enforce an order for the full disclosure of evidence is no more likely than a woman to have Y-genetic material.....

....... oh wait. In Italy, even that is now a judicial fact.

 

[Bill Williams]

Not to be a fussbudget, but I'm not so sure calculating the odds is that simple. I understand the argument, just bugs me for some reason, can't put my finger on it.
By the way, if the Y haplotype came from an XXY, would that show somehow as different from an XY? Could that be deduced from data in some way?

Also, Nencini is beyond redemption, the motivation is not an argument, its a malicious invention. The arrogance is astounding.

I think you are correct.

The issue, really, is that 29,999 out of 30,000 women have the usual XX pair. That means that two women would be expected to have the XX pair 29,999*29,999/900,000,000 times.

This means that one of any two random women would have XX/XXY genetics with the odds of..... 59,999/900,000,000......

...... oh never mind. Where's Leyla when we need her?

 

[Desert Fox]

Well, that would make in a totally random situation finding 2 people at even 1/30000 would be 1/900,000,000.

I have met plenty of Transgenders that you just cannot tell. Transgenders also tend to congregate. Still, I think that it is very unlikely.

 

[acbytesla]

I have met plenty of Transgenders that you just cannot tell. Transgenders also tend to congregate. Still, I think that it is very unlikely.

I did say random...but your point is understood. Nencini is a corrupt moron.,

 

[Desert Fox]

I did say random...but your point is understood. Nencini is a corrupt moron.,

Part of teh reason why I am posting all this is so our position is clear and we are not leaving these issues unexamined.

 

[stilicho]

The pro-guilt crowd jumps on every little possibly negative detail as if it blows the case wide open. And every time it ends up being nothing. This case will not be solved on Twitter.

People like Stilicho love the fact that a couple of people in Raffaele's family are posting misinformation on Twitter. Why? Is it all for Meredith? Of course not. They will cling to anything that can possibly harm those they hate.

People need to take a break from the Twitter noise and read Raffaele's book.

Now, when it comes to the cartoon, Raffaele could have been tinkering around on his computer, opening the cartoon and then something else came up and he neglected to close the screen. Its a non issue.

Does anyone here browse YouTube? Do you watch videos online? Can anyone remember what they watched on their computers last week? Now try 6 1/2 years ago.

The evidence shows the cartoon was opened. Both Raffaele and Amanda neglect to mention the cartoon in their books. The fact that neither of them mention it means nothing. It was not an event that would have been remembered. Watching a movie for a period of time like Amelie would be much more likely remembered.

Now, if someone would really like to make the case that Amanda went out and committed murder, and then talked Raffaele into helping her clean it up, then good luck to you. No one will care or listen.

As far as the Twitter noise goes, this case has been going on for far too long. People can only take so much. We are all watching 2 innocent people being destroyed by an ongoing disastrous legal battle. Nothing said at this point by anyone on Twitter or anywhere else will ever change the truth of this case. Rudy Guede murdered Meredith Kercher. Amanda and Raffaele had nothing to do with it.

Raffaele's alibi is, was, and always will be his computer. He does not, has not, and never will depend on convicted liar Amanda Knox to supply him with an excuse.

Raffaele's family has deployed their own formidable resources to explain to Americans why he cannot have been the murderer. Knox has carefully explained to Chris Cuomo, as of late, that she cannot be guilty since her DNA wasn't found in Meredith's room.

Guess whose DNA was found there and on Meredith's underwear? Why do you suppose that Raffaele has decided to turn on his accomplice?

 

[stilicho]

What a stupid troll.

First of all, the maximum sentence in Italy is 30 years. Then there is the sentence reduction that is already locked in. Remember the reduction that was given to Rudy because the co-defendants in a separate trial were given a reduction. It wouldn't be osmotic if it didn't come back to them.

And that's not even getting into the facts that show they are innocent.

Raffaele will end his life in prison. I am surprised you don't know him that well. Have you read his book? It's rather instructive.

 

[Desert Fox]

Raffaele will end his life in prison. I am surprised you don't know him that well. Have you read his book? It's rather instructive.

Didn't you write in a previous post that you have not read his book?

 

[acbytesla]

Raffaele's alibi is, was, and always will be his computer. He does not, has not, and never will depend on convicted liar Amanda Knox to supply him with an excuse.

Raffaele's family has deployed their own formidable resources to explain to Americans why he cannot have been the murderer. Knox has carefully explained to Chris Cuomo, as of late, that she cannot be guilty since her DNA wasn't found in Meredith's room.

Guess whose DNA was found there and on Meredith's underwear? Why do you suppose that Raffaele has decided to turn on his accomplice?

You are so fooling yourself Raffaele has already said multiple times that he was with Amanda at his apartment and he has no knowledge that Amanda left that night. Either Raffaele was involved from the beginning or he wasn't.

You never address why Raffaele might go help Amanda with a clean up of a murder when he knew her for only one week. Raffaele might not be the smartest guy on the planet, but he's not this stupid.

The fact is whether you like it or not, is there is NO EVIDENCE that they left his apartment that night. NO CCTV footage, no cell phone pings, no credible eyewitnesses.

The only evidence that you think you have is this bull by Stefanoni. A piece of evidence that is not confirmed by anyone and which has alleles from multiple other males on it.

It's nonsense Stillcho.

 

[Desert Fox]

Raffaele's alibi is, was, and always will be his computer. He does not, has not, and never will depend on convicted liar Amanda Knox to supply him with an excuse.

Raffaele's family has deployed their own formidable resources to explain to Americans why he cannot have been the murderer. Knox has carefully explained to Chris Cuomo, as of late, that she cannot be guilty since her DNA wasn't found in Meredith's room.

Guess whose DNA was found there and on Meredith's underwear? Why do you suppose that Raffaele has decided to turn on his accomplice?

You seem to be half admitting that the evidence of guilt is poor.
In such a case, even if you think they are guilty, don't you think there is reasonable doubt?

 

[Planigale]

Not to be a fussbudget, but I'm not so sure calculating the odds is that simple. I understand the argument, just bugs me for some reason, can't put my finger on it.

By the way, if the Y haplotype came from an XXY, would that show somehow as different from an XY? Could that be deduced from data in some way?

Also, Nencini is beyond redemption, the motivation is not an argument, its a malicious invention. The arrogance is astounding.

XXY is Klinefelters syndrome, physical male but don't properly mature. I think we need to differentiate gender and sex. Gender is the social role, XY males may choose a female gender role either with or without surgery / hormonal treatment. If there is androgen insensitivity XY individuals may have a range of phenotypes between male and female. Complete androgen insensitive XY will be phenotypical female sex though infertile. They may require some hormonal therapy. Partial androgen insensitivity will result in a range of interest states.

This is all irrelevant. If Nencini attributed Y genes to female friends of MK he clearly does not understand the basics of genetics, one can justifiably ask if he fails to understand this fact how can he be capable of making a judgement on the more technical facts of DNA typing.

 

[NancyS]

Raffaele will end his life in prison. I am surprised you don't know him that well. Have you read his book? It's rather instructive.

That really is a horribly offensive post. It really is quite sick that people like you could revel in possibly driving an innocent man to suicide

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Raffaele's alibi is, was, and always will be his computer. He does not, has not, and never will depend on convicted liar Amanda Knox to supply him with an excuse.

Raffaele's family has deployed their own formidable resources to explain to Americans why he cannot have been the murderer. Knox has carefully explained to Chris Cuomo, as of late, that she cannot be guilty since her DNA wasn't found in Meredith's room.

Guess whose DNA was found there and on Meredith's underwear? Why do you suppose that Raffaele has decided to turn on his accomplice?

You are not denying the computer evidence. Do you believe Raffaele opened that cartoon or not?

Or would you like to make the case that Amanda left to commit a murder and then convinced Raffaele to help clean up?

Raffaele has not turned on Amanda. A couple of his family members are posting misguided information. You really should read Raffaele's book. He has said nothing publicly to show that his position has changed. If he ever does, it will just show that he has been broken by the system. Nothing will ever surface to show that Raffaele was involved in the murder because he wasn't. Same goes for Amanda. As we both know, they are linked together.

Amanda's defense has stated from the beginning that her DNA was not in the murder room. Your suggestion that similar statements all of the sudden caused Raffaele to turn on Amanda is absurd.

Nothing said on Twitter will change the truth. Of course you latch onto every Tweet that you hope will harm Amanda and Raffaele, regardless of the truth. No surprise there.

 

[Planigale]

You are so fooling yourself Raffaele has already said multiple times that he was with Amanda at his apartment and he has no knowledge that Amanda left that night. Either Raffaele was involved from the beginning or he wasn't.

You never address why Raffaele might go help Amanda with a clean up of a murder when he knew her for only one week. Raffaele might not be the smartest guy on the planet, but he's not this stupid.

The fact is whether you like it or not, is there is NO EVIDENCE that they left his apartment that night. NO CCTV footage, no cell phone pings, no credible eyewitnesses.

The only evidence that you think you have is this bull by Stefanoni. A piece of evidence that is not confirmed by anyone and which has alleles from multiple other males on it.

It's nonsense Stillcho.

PS
NO EVIDENCE of a clean up.
NO EVIDENCE of a staged break in.
NO EVIDENCE of the body being moved.