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How crazy is too crazy to own a gun?

This crazy:

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IXP said:
Being human is too crazy. There may be someone out there who has never gone into a rage and done something stupid, but I sure don't know of any.

IXP
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That's the problem alright.

David M. Buss wrote this in The Murderer Next Door:

Case records do show that often people who kill do so while seized by a blinding rage, and they often seem oblivious to the consequences of their actions. We tend to think, then, that killers must be crazy. But they aren't. Or at least the majority are not.

Buss also notes that murder is not like most other crimes, in that murderers often have no general tendency toward criminal behavior:

Although there clearly are some career criminals who have committed repeated murders, most murderers kill only once.

In short, a good guy with a gun sometimes becomes a bad guy with a gun.
 
Cylinder said:
Other mental health issues that can disqualify a purchase are domestic violence, addiction and conditions of probation that exclude possession of a firearm.
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My state doesn't disqualify people for misdemeanor domestic violence but apparently the feds do. I don't know how it works in practice.

Cylinder said:
Crazy is kind of a popular term that's not precise enough to be useful here.
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Everyone seems to agree we should keep guns out of the hands of "nuts" and "crazies." IMO, these terms refer to people with a long-term and well-documented history of psychotic breaks. The "voices-in-my-head-told-me-to-do-it" type of crazy. There are many other conditions that could affect judgment, but unless there is legal involvement there will be no record, and even the legal involvement comes with a huge caveat.

From the Federal Record:
Amended definition of "adjudicated as a mental defective" and "committed to
a mental institution"
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2014-01-07/pdf/2014-00039.pdf

Federal agencies are banned from giving this information to the attorney general if "the person was fully released or discharged from all mandatory treatment, supervision or monitoring." The ban went into effect in 2008.

Cylinder said:
The adjudication is a court record and will be available to any agency doing a background check unless specifically protected by statute or order.
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3% of involuntary committals show up in a background check, according to Guns & Ammo. Simply lying on the form would work for most people.

There are an estimated 3 million living Americans who have been involuntarily committed to mental institutions. The NICS database only contains the names of about 90,000 of these individuals.
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http://www.gunsandammo.com/2005/03/01/mental-illness-and-gun-ownership/
 
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Gawdzilla said:
The local guns shops used to sell hand guns to my father long after in he was into full-blown Alzheimer's. About half the time he didn't recognize us and said he kept the guns because of "strangers in his house."
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That must have been very difficult.

wrs said:
My mother threw canned goods at my father during that period. No guns in their house though, my father was always against guns.
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I'm sorry about your mom.

marplots said:
We could work it the other way around: prove you are sane.
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Hah! Good luck with that ...

BStrong said:
Years back there was a shooting/hostage incident in a bar near the Cal-Berkeley campus ...
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Fascinating story. This fellow is, IMO, a classic example of crazy as it is used in discussions about gun rights and responsibilities. I bet the Iranian regime was thrilled to get rid of him.

BStrong said:
Personally, in selling firearms when I was a licensee or in private party transfers I always stick to the MOPAR rule - you don't sell to Misfits, Outcasts, Perverts, ******** or Racists.

It worked for me.
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Some of that is pretty subjective, but I take your point. The California gun dealer did his bit to keep this guy's hands off a gun and I believe your "rule" shows a lot of responsibility. I'm not sure if all gun dealers are like that.
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
That's the problem alright.

David M. Buss wrote this in The Murderer Next Door:

Case records do show that often people who kill do so while seized by a blinding rage, and they often seem oblivious to the consequences of their actions. We tend to think, then, that killers must be crazy. But they aren't. Or at least the majority are not.

Buss also notes that murder is not like most other crimes, in that murderers often have no general tendency toward criminal behavior:

Although there clearly are some career criminals who have committed repeated murders, most murderers kill only once.
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At least the guys who get caught don't do it any more. Only about 50% of murders ever get solved. .

But I'm not sure what type of murderer he is talking about. My recent reading is that about 90% of both murderers AND their victims average about 4 interactions with the criminal justice system. Murder is usually a criminal-on-criminal crime. By people who are known to act up and get violent.

We have , what, about 15,000 gun related "Homocides" per year. Half of which are old males committing suicide. Than we have a couple dozen mass murders take place. And a few "legal interventions". Which leaves something like 7,000 "murders".

Most gun deaths are NOT done by the Reverend having one bad day and blasting everybody on the street. They are done by criminals to criminals that know each other.

The Wackos make the news, but the run of the mill homicides that are done by run of the mill criminals do not.
 
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casebro said:
At least the guys who get caught don't do it any more. Only about 50% of murders ever get solved. .

But I'm not sure what type of murderer he is talking about. My recent reading is that about 90% of both murderers AND their victims average about 4 interactions with the criminal justice system. Murder is usually a criminal-on-criminal crime. By people who are known to act up and get violent.

We have , what, about 15,000 gun related "Homocides" per year. Half of which are old males committing suicide. Than we have a couple dozen mass murders take place. And a few "legal interventions". Which leaves something like 7,000 "murders".

Most gun deaths are NOT done by the Reverend having one bad day and blasting everybody on the street. They are done by criminals to criminals that know each other.

The Wackos make the news, but the run of the mill homicides that are done by run of the mill criminals do not.
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Heh.

Sounds like you're quite the expert on this subject. On the Internet no less... imagine that.
 
Everyone is too crazy to own a gun. That's why you restrict access to them to only those people who can demonstrate a genuine requirement for one.
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
That's the problem alright.

David M. Buss wrote this in The Murderer Next Door:

Case records do show that often people who kill do so while seized by a blinding rage, and they often seem oblivious to the consequences of their actions. We tend to think, then, that killers must be crazy. But they aren't. Or at least the majority are not.

Buss also notes that murder is not like most other crimes, in that murderers often have no general tendency toward criminal behavior:

Although there clearly are some career criminals who have committed repeated murders, most murderers kill only once.

In short, a good guy with a gun sometimes becomes a bad guy with a gun.
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Cool story bro.

In real life (going to the official stats):

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vfluc.txt

snippets:

Seventy percent of violent felons had a prior arrest
record, and 57% had at least one prior arrest for a
felony. Sixty-seven percent of murderers and 73% of
those convicted of robbery or assault had an arrest
record.
...

A BJS analysis of felony convictions in
the 75 most populous counties found that a majority
of those committing violent felonies had–-

* multiple prior arrests

* at least 1 prior felony arrest

* at least 1 prior conviction.
...

Half of convicted murderers were younger than 25



So, it's not just anyone... it's typically young males with a history of criminal misbehavior.
 
Giz said:
Cool story bro.

In real life (going to the official stats):

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vfluc.txt

snippets:

Seventy percent of violent felons had a prior arrest
record, and 57% had at least one prior arrest for a
felony. Sixty-seven percent of murderers and 73% of
those convicted of robbery or assault had an arrest
record.
...
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Thanks. I'm going to use those stats.
30% of violent felons had no prior arrest record. 33% of murderers and 27% of those convicted of robbery or assault had no arrest record. All in these groups would be eligible (before the crime) to buy and carry a gun - provided they weren't documented to be nuts.
 
Cleon said:
A couple of things. #1, those young ladies are likely IDF soldiers, not just randos on the street. #2, correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears as though the magazines are attached to the side; ie, the guns aren't loaded. Those two points contrast rather sharply with these bozos.
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Wrong link?
 
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