• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

Scorpion said:
According to Theosphy the soul is a formless bubble of energy...
Click to expand...

What kind of energy? If it is stronger than gravity, it would be simply detectable; if it is weaker than gravity, it has no chance of maintaining its form.

Scorpion said:
...which contains our consciousness,
Click to expand...

Consciousness is an emergent property of a neurosystem. There's a whole other thread about this...

Scorpion said:
...and all our memories of past lives.
Click to expand...

If our "memories" of our "past lives" are not available to us, how are they "ours"? How are they "memories"?

Scorpion said:
It is God within God separated from the God mind by the energy bubble which is called the causal body.
Click to expand...

Right. Demonstration, pls.

Scorpion said:
But since we cannot function in a formless body we have several lower bodies that we inhabit that are called the mental and the astral and the physical body.
Click to expand...

Again, some glimmer of actual evidence would be so refreshing...

Scorpion said:
There is an interpenetrating shell between the higher bodies and the physical, and it is called the etheric body.
Click to expand...

Nope. Nothing exists that could form such; nothing exists that could power such. Interactions with actual matter and energy require
(wait for it)
...matter, and energy.

Scorpion said:
Conciousness is channeled down into the brain through energy centers in the etheric body called chakras.
Click to expand...

Chakras are not an anatomical reality in the human body. I've looked.

Consciousness is an emergent property of a functioning (matter/energy) neurosystem.

Scorpion said:
We may be able to astral travel while still alive. That is leave the body for a time but still be connected to it, which may explain NDE.
Click to expand...

Actually, NDEs are explained by the "N" in NDE, and by the physiological reactions of the brain to certain types of stresses, including, but not limited to hypoxia and anoxia.

An NDE is as much an indication of "what it is like to die" as being stood up at the altar is an indication of "what it is like to be married".

Scorpion said:
After we die we go to higher planes,
Click to expand...

Um, no. After we die, we are dead. That's why they call it that.

Scorpion said:
...and reside in the one our spiritual evolution equips us for. We stay in the spirit world until deciding it is necessary to reincarnate.
Click to expand...

Cool story, sis.
 
Last edited:
If we're going to describe our favourite fantasy worlds unsupported by evidence, reason, or logic, I choose the Big Rock Candy Mountains:
 
Thanks for the reply. Let's look at it a little more closely.

Scorpion said:
According to Theosphy the soul is a formless bubble of energy which contains our consciousness, and all our memories of past lives.
Click to expand...
But it has been pointed out to you that energy is a property, not a thing. It's the same as saying "a bubble of voltage" or "a bucket of temperature" or "a box of gravity." So the explanation fails right out of the gate.

It is God within God separated from the God mind by the energy bubble which is called the causal body. But since we cannot function in a formless body we have several lower bodies that we inhabit that are called the mental and the astral and the physical body.
Click to expand...
Leaving aside the question of God for the moment, the only evidence we have for our bodies is the physical one: a collection of meat, bones, nerves that collectively supports something called a brain. Consciousness is understood to be an emergent property of the brain. There is no need to explain it further in terms of etheric bodies and chakras.

There is an interpenetrating shell between the higher bodies and the physical, and it is called the etheric body. Conciousness is channeled down into the brain through energy centers in the etheric body called chakras. We may be able to astral travel while still alive. That is leave the body for a time but still be connected to it, which may explain NDE.
Click to expand...
Interesting. Now we need more detailed explanations. What is the etheric body made out of? And chakras? Are they built up from fundamental particles such as quarks, bosons, mesons, etc? If so, wy are we unable to detect them with any instrument we can invent?

After we die we go to higher planes, and reside in the one our spiritual evolution equips us for. We stay in the spirit world until deciding it is necessary to reincarnate.
Click to expand...
It's an interesting and perhaps comforting thought. The problem is there is nothing in the manifestations of the spirit world that cannot be explained by more mundane means. A careful study of the spirit world and spiritualists is also a study in logical fallacies.

A "logical fallacy", by the way, is a short-hand explanation for any of a few dozen ways the human brain deceives and fools itself. The main reason we're able to carry out this conversation on the internet is because we discovered that we're very good at fooling ourselves and invented way of investigating things so that our own internal biases would not get in. That approach is called science, and it led to the breakthroughs that we take for granted today: electricity, electronics, the motor vehicle, the germ theory of disease and clean drinking water, etc. Theosophy, spiritualism, and religion in general did nothing to assist that process, and often times impeded it terribly.
 
dlorde said:
Not really. You misunderstand the nature of energy. It isn't a form of stuff, it's an indirectly observed quantity, an equivalence relation. The best analogy I know is value (i.e. financial value). A block of gold, a wad of currency, a house, and 10 years work can all have the same value. You can convert a block of gold into a house of the same value either by direct exchange, or by using it to buy wood, bricks, mortar, and builder's time and having it built. But gold, bricks & mortar, builder's labour, and currency are not made of value, they each have a kind of value that can be converted into other kinds of value. Like most analogies, it's incomplete (for example financial value isn't conserved, it depends on human judgement) but it gives an idea of the principle.

Saying that matter can be converted to energy is a convenient shorthand for this equivalence relation. When matter is 'converted' to energy (e.g. nuclear explosion) it doesn't cease to exist, it is broken down into subatomic and elementary particles moving at velocities or having frequencies that, in total, have the equivalent energy value. The common idea of energy as light or radiant heat, consists of photons, and the higher the frequency of the photon, the greater its energy equivalent. But it's not made of energy, energy is a property it has.

So reality isn't an illusion, and stuff isn't made of energy. The real illusion (strictly delusion) is the spirit world.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that clear explanation of the conversion of matter into energy.


Akhenaten said:
Exactly.

Just as a dead brain (and trust me on this, they do actually melt) the data that it contained disappears forever.
Click to expand...

I had to open a jar of Year V's vintage to cope with that image of a melting brain, O Pharaoh.



PixyMisa said:
...Also, chakras don't exist.
Click to expand...

Indeed. When you compare various chakra systems with another and see the differences in location and function of the chakras according to the system's teachings, the whole concept of chakras pretty well falls down to the folkloric tourist trade category.
The Theosophical movement is responsible for a lot guff. Jiddu Krishnamurti WP broke with those people for a reason, after all.
 
dlorde said:
You're most welcome (I hope it's right) ;)
Click to expand...

It must be, it is such an elegant way to explain the difference between a thing and a property. Finally I know how to respond to people who use the word energy as if it refers to an object. Thanks.
 
I am resurrecting this thread, to answer questions on spiritualism without taking any other threads off topic. The mods kindly provided this thread for me to stop me derailing other threads, and I might as well use it.
 
Question from Thor 2

"The spirits you talk of. Are they inside our bodies now and only break out when we die, or can they roam about in the astral plain whilst we are still alive and in a trance/sleep? Is this another name for a soul and do we get one when we are born or conceived?"

As far as my understanding goes we are an immortal spirit connected to a physical body by an energy shell called the etheric body. Consciousness is not centered in the brain but it is channeled down though the chakras in the etheric body.
According to the occult we have several bodies and the etheric is just a shell between the astral body and the physical body.
I believe it is possible to leave the body while we are still alive but I have never achieved that. I don't think many people do. I did once think I was standing on my head in bed, but it could well have been a dream.

The spirits say that we are immortal souls that primarily exist on the spiritual planes and we descend into the physical body at conception. Our soul or spirit is connected to the physical body for the purpose of incarnation, to learn by trial and error.

The theory is we have always existed as part of God but we are sent out on a cycle of birth and rebirths as a way of discovering our divinity for ourselves.

This world is just a plane of experience and there are many higher planes we inhabit after death. We go to a plane that is suitable for our current state of spiritual evolution.
In the spirit we are segregated by our spiritual status but the earth plane is a melting pot for the evolved and the unevolved to interact with one another, and it is largely by such interactions that we develop. There is no pressure on us in the spirit planes and we cannot evolve there, neither can we pay karmic debts, so we have to reincarnate many times.
 
Scorpion said:
Question from Thor 2

"The spirits you talk of. Are they inside our bodies now and only break out when we die, or can they roam about in the astral plain whilst we are still alive and in a trance/sleep? Is this another name for a soul and do we get one when we are born or conceived?"

As far as my understanding goes we are an immortal spirit connected to a physical body by an energy shell called the etheric body. Consciousness is not centered in the brain but it is channeled down though the chakras in the etheric body.
According to the occult we have several bodies and the etheric is just a shell between the astral body and the physical body.
I believe it is possible to leave the body while we are still alive but I have never achieved that. I don't think many people do. I did once think I was standing on my head in bed, but it could well have been a dream.

The spirits say that we are immortal souls that primarily exist on the spiritual planes and we descend into the physical body at conception. Our soul or spirit is connected to the physical body for the purpose of incarnation, to learn by trial and error.

The theory is we have always existed as part of God but we are sent out on a cycle of birth and rebirths as a way of discovering our divinity for ourselves.

This world is just a plane of experience and there are many higher planes we inhabit after death. We go to a plane that is suitable for our current state of spiritual evolution.
In the spirit we are segregated by our spiritual status but the earth plane is a melting pot for the evolved and the unevolved to interact with one another, and it is largely by such interactions that we develop. There is no pressure on us in the spirit planes and we cannot evolve there, neither can we pay karmic debts, so we have to reincarnate many times.
Click to expand...
Cool story bro.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
Scorpion said:
<snip for brevity>
Click to expand...

I am witholding my response to that, pending your answer to my question below out of respect.


Do you really want my honest critique of that post? No holds barred? Brakes off?

I will freely give it if, and only if, you are ready to take it on the chin, with the benign intent that underlies it and the understanding that you will not like it much.
 
Kid Eager said:
How can one identify any difference between the claimed location of a chakra and an immediately adjacent point that is not a chakra?
Click to expand...

Chakras are the Humpty's of the spiritual world. They are as large or small as necessary, and have a meaning which means exactly whatever the claimant wants it to mean at a given time.

Until tomorrow, when it will all be different, so pay attentions and keep up.
 
Scorpion said:
The spirits say that we are immortal souls that primarily exist on the spiritual planes and we descend into the physical body at conception.
Click to expand...

This has interesting implications. Does it imply that all abortion is wrong because it's depriving a spirit of its home/opportunity/evolution? Or does it imply that abortion is just fine because the spirit will learn something and just reincarnate?

In fact, does it imply that absolutely no action a human can take is wrong, because it's all part of God's plan to make our souls evolve?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom