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Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

mstricky said:
When the heart stops and the soul leaves the body
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How long does the heart have to have been stopped before the soul decides it's time to leave?
And who told it about this time period?

I can imagine these souls must get a bit annoyed during certain surgical procedures.
 
mstricky said:
When the heart stops and the soul leaves the body
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Alright, so the heart can start up again and the rest of the body can function normal again.

Does that count for everybody who is dead?

So they just need to start Elvis' heart again and he starts to sing?
 
ComfySlippers said:
How long does the heart have to have been stopped before the soul decides it's time to leave?
And who told it about this time period?

I can imagine these souls must get a bit annoyed during certain surgical procedures.
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Nah, these souls sneak out for a snack (or a movie) while the heart is on vacation and then the soul comes back when the heart comes back.

Roughly the same time.
 
Daylightstar said:
Nah, these souls sneak out for a snack (or a movie) while the heart is on vacation and then the soul comes back when the heart comes back.



Roughly the same time.
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What happens if a soul oversleeps?
They must get a tad annoyed with all the false alarms.
Must be very tiresome.
 
Scorpion said:
Nothing exists except energy, everything we see is an illusion. e=mxc2 can be transposed to show that all matter can be turned back into energy.
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Scorpion, i think you are misunderstandiing, that equation is a statement of equivalence/conservation, not conversion. The 'm' in the equation is mass, not matter. matter 'converted to' energy will still conserve mass. Matter is an object; mass is a property You cannot compare the two things, it is like comparing apples to oranges.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Everything certainly could be illusion.

This is the stuff of Plato's cave and Descartes' musings and "The Matrix" and late night dorm room discussions.

Been there, done that.

And then it's time to get back to real life.

Scorpion, try this experiment:

Pretend you have an imaginary pin in your hand and stick yourself with it.

Then, do the same with a real pin.

That, on a fundamental level is the difference between illusion and reality.

You can ponder that the real pin is just an illusion, BUT IT STILL HURTS!!!

And so most sane people, after questioning if everything is an illusion, must run their real live "as if" matter exists and cause and effect are related.

To do otherwise can put one's existence in this plane of reality in jeopardy.

But good luck finding other planes and assuming matter is illusory. Just don't hurt yourself!
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I have to side with Scorpion here (someone has to...) this was a poor analogy--the proper analogy is that if you slit your wrist with a real knife, you die, not so with an imaginary one. Pain is subjective, just an evolutionary device to protect you. Any two-bit hypnotist could convince someone (who is hypnotizable) that they are feeling real pain from an imaginary knife, and none whatsoever with the real knife. I used to auto-hypnotise myself and win money in bar bets doing a similar trick :)
 
Pixel42 said:
Some people cannot grasp the concept of the burden of proof no matter how many times it is explained to them. Probably because they are so emotionally invested in a particular irrational belief that their minds simply reject it.
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I think that this emotional investment has turned the supernatural into the default position for them, which is why they[\i] demand proof that the supernatural does not exist, and they are just exasperated that we demand proof from them[\i]!
 
steenkh said:
I think that this emotional investment has turned the supernatural into the default position for them, which is why they[\i] demand proof that the supernatural does not exist, and they are just exasperated that we demand proof from them[\i]!
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The supernatural is so real to them it's like being asked to prove there's air.
 
mstricky said:
Just so you can ridicule? It does say above that this forum is for the discussion of the paranormal as well as other subjects. But some posters ask why I am on here
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Yes, because you aren't discussing the paranormal. You are simply throwing out subjective assertions from your spiritual high horse.

But, hey, if you'd like to come back down to reality and actually discuss objectively, that would be cool. Otherwise, it's just the usual:

Woo: "There is life after death!"

Objective People: "Evidence?"

Woo: "It's a spiritual thing. There is no evidence. If you don't believe what I say without evidence to support it, then you are narrow minded, etc, etc. Prove it doesn't!"

Objective People: "But we didn't make the claim it does. The consistent absence of evidence supports the non-existence. If you refuse to back up your own claim, what do you want us to say?"

Woo: "You are picking on me! Asking me to prove anything I claim is mean!"

And so on. The same "discussion" by woos has played out here a hundred times...and they never do clearly state what they hope to accomplish, aside from using this forum to reaffirm their delusions to themselves and get some attention.
 
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mstricky said:
And you believe that there isn't an afterlife. Where is your proof/evidence of that?
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Why does this need repeating? Read slowly.

You cannot prove a negative, it is up to you to prove the positive statement.

For example just try to disprove that i own a magical sword that busts onto flame at my command, just try.
 
mstricky said:
Because its working on the flesh/brain and not on the soul
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.
People have tried to determine when the soul leaves the body.
So far, no one has come up with a procedure that can detect that as something in addition to just heart stopping, breathing stopping.
And there's the question at the other end of life, its beginning.
When did Nature add the soul to the meat sack?
How could that be determined?
A feel for "something higher than life" is not measureable either.
 
mstricky said:
Because its working on the flesh/brain and not on the soul
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So the soul has no awareness or consciousness, and awareness and consciousness is a function of the brain, which ceases under anaesthetic and at death?

So what difference does a soul make if it's not associated with consciousness or awareness?
 
steenkh said:
I think that this emotional investment has turned the supernatural into the default position for them, which is why they[\i] demand proof that the supernatural does not exist, and they are just exasperated that we demand proof from them[\i]!
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There is also the problem that challenging or criticising someone's world view or beliefs tends to result in a reaction resisting the challenge and strengthening the view or belief.

This is why I tend to take a Socratic approach, asking leading questions they have to think about to answer, considering the issue from a different perspective. It doesn't usually work... ;)
 
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