Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Diocletus]

For me it is pretty simple, if the prosecution thought it was Amanda they would have used it, therefore, given their obvious conclusion why would they investigate? Indeed, if for example Meredith and this person where seen in the same CCTV footage passing each other they may have tried to track her down, but that is clearly not the case.

Indeed. The only reason for them not to have tracked down the CCTV person was if they believed that person to be Knox. But if they believed the person to be Knox, then they would have used the video. Quite the conundrum.

 

[RandyN]

.
I have more than one theory, but this is my favorite. If you substitute the 'unknown stranger' with Meredith then his self serving story fits the scenario pretty well. Rudy comes out of the bathroom with his pants half up, the 'stranger' is there with a knife, he approaches the 'stranger', tries to ward off the knife and gets cut, he then uses a chair to fend off the 'stranger'.

There is evidence the drying rack was knocked over and then righted again. There is also footprint evidence that he did something in that area. Most importantly, for me, it explains the rage and brutality better than any other scenario.

I can imagine Rudy coming out of the bathroom, coming closer to Meredith while starting to make up some lie to explain why he is there. Meredith, terrified, terrified, tries to keep him away by threatening with a knife, he reaches out, he may not even realize she has a knife, and gets cut, which triggers the rage. A sort of temporary insanity rage, a primordial reaction. Meredith runs to her bedroom to escape, hoping to lock it in time, but can't. How else does one explain the brutality? How?

Not AK, Canada, aka 'The Great White North'.

Cody (aka Codi)
.

My favorite too.

It explains many things. The knife...

If RG carried a knife... at CT or at nursery school it was a folding type knife which is about the only thing that makes logical sense. He is not carrying around a fixed blade knife that is unsheaved normally. And yes I realize that is what he had in his bag at the school, but it was taken from the school for whatever reason...

MK grabbing a kitchen knife and cutting RG fits the evidence best. Perhaps she was at the sink when she noticed or maybe sensed something.

The knife imprint clearly is not a folding knife. It is close in appearance although smaller than RS police chosen knife. A fixed blade and still a rather large knife that no one carried in his pocket unsheaved.

We have these here and mostly from the old days when guys used them during hunting season...not many do that anymore since even in a case they are still quite dangerous to the person carrying it...say in a fall.

MK retreat to her room followed closely by a cut and now angry RG would never give her time to block or lock her door. And since this was an old style skeleton type lock on an inside bedroom door one can expect that MK kept that key right in the key hole on the inside of the door. Ready to lock for privacy in a busy house, but mostly always unlocked.

RG just pushed the door open before she could turn that lock. Then she ran toward her bed where it looks like she tried to literally climb the wall in a frightened effort to escape somewhere...anywhere! And the murder started right then.

The only problem I have with this theory is the lack of RG blood anywhere. I cut my finger today and before I could get to the paper towels which were just two steps away I had dripped a few drops of blood on the garage floor already. So where is RG blood drops?

So maybe MK never cut RG but I think the murder weapon was certainly a cottage fixed blade knife...very likely grabbed from the drying rack near the sink. I have twenty knives just like this all within a few feet of each other in my kitchen depending on the state of dish washing status...dirty, in the DW, in the knife drawer or knife block. Usually an assortment reside in each place.

Who grabbed the knife? I think it was MK. That is what I would do if I was getting a drink and noticed a strange smell or light or sound and had little time for thought...

I'm with Grinder on the PIP party line thing as being something to avoid since there is absolutely no reason to even do that. There is plenty of solid confirmed evidence plus tons of highly reliable circumstantial evidence that indicates that RG either alone or with an accomplice killed MK. We can learn from the nursery school that RG had an interest in knives. We can consider if CT would make up a story about a black man with a knife who robbed him.

Nothing indicates that RG was loner but nothing has been indicated that he was in a gang of sorts either. This is also something I find suspect as far as a adequate investigation by anyone into RG is concerned. He had friends and they know about RG. He probably had good guy friends and bad guy friends and it seems likely that the good and bad at least knew of each other...names etc. And yet no one seems to have mined this data.

Did police bring in and beat something out of...ahhh, I mean question some of RG friends? If not why not? And why do we know nothing...except for a little about Giacomo his pal who ratted him out?

Was Koko involved? Maybe... but he left no physical evidence. Get away, transport driver? Sure. He seems linked somehow... but it could be just as easily be Lumumba who was a RG friend and accomplice. Why not? RG mentions Lumumba not as a stranger but as someone he seems to know...but was it just like RG "knew" AK? No way to know...but RG friends certainly know.

What is certain? MK was killed by RG. He had some sort of sexual contact with her before or after he cut her throat...and the fully clothed while being attacked bloody outer clothing evidence indicates that the sex thing came after...got that Grinder?

He took her money and credit cards and phones. He sorted thru her purse as she was dead or dying under the duvet since some purse contents where tossed on top of her covered body...receipts etc...

Nothing indicates AK or RS or anyone else for that matter are involved. Koko's car may have been seen in the driveway...this seems something else not closely investigated by police. So RG then...lone killer. Common crime. Happens every single damn day somewhere.

 

[Dan O.]

These points seem to pose problems for Amanda. She made no mention of finding any of this on the Friday morning AFAIR.

You have seen the same images and you've made no mention of it up to now. Rudy probably picked up the drying rack rather than risk tripping over it in the darkened hall. We know it was picked up by the time Rudy walks out leaving the bloody trail of shoeprints. This gave Meredith a couple of seconds. Enough time to close her door but the key is not in the inside lock so she can only try to hold the handle. (It is possible that Rudy is the one that cracks the door at this point Raffaele only notices the crack later when he tries to force the door.) Meredith would go for her phones but Rudy is in and on her instantly and taking away the phones.

 

[Dan O.]

Indeed. The only reason for them not to have tracked down the CCTV person was if they believed that person to be Knox. But if they believed the person to be Knox, then they would have used the video. Quite the conundrum.

They did use that video. Note the time the press is reporting:

2007-11-12 Corrier (it)
PERUGIA - On the evening of November 1 Amanda Knox returned home at 20:43. His entry was recorded by the camera which is located in the parking lot in front. The images are quite sharp, capturing the details. You see the young through the door. Wear light-colored clothing, the skirt has. She is alone.
2007-11-12 Telegraph
A camera in the carpark opposite Miss Kercher’s house has a "clear-cut image" of 20-year-old Amanda Knox, from Seattle, on the premises, according to police.
The CCTV footage apparently shows Knox entering the driveway of the house at 8.43pm on the night, wearing a light-coloured skirt.
2007-11-13 Independent
Police revealed that Amanda Knox was picked up by CCTV cameras situated above the building where she lived with the Leeds University student, contradicting her previous claims that she had spent the night with her Italian boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito.
The images appear to show Ms Knox wearing a light coloured skirt and top entering the building at 8.43pm on 1 November, the night Ms Kercher was killed.
2008-02-28 Sky News
Cameras overlooking the 'House of Horrors' as it has been dubbed have captured US student Knox at 20.43 on November 1 dressed in a light coloured skirt and top.
A police source in Perugia, where Meredith was studying, said: It will be interesting to see what she has to say when we show her the footage.​

Later they will discover that Amanda has an alibi for that time.

 

[Dan O.]

MK retreat to her room followed closely by a cut and now angry RG would never give her time to block or lock her door. And since this was an old style skeleton type lock on an inside bedroom door one can expect that MK kept that key right in the key hole on the inside of the door. Ready to lock for privacy in a busy house, but mostly always unlocked.

The interrior door keys can be found where they were last used. The bathroom keys are in the inside lock which makes sense that the bathrooms would only be locked from the inside. Amanda's key is in the inside lock of her door but Amanda doesn't even remember this. She probably never even closes her door and the key is where she tested it the first time. Laura's key is in the outside lock. She may lock her room when she is going out of town or when she has valuable ithms like a Laptop in there. But she didn't lock it this time. It shows she trusts her roommates. Filomena's key is not seen. It's not in the outside lock and there is no view to see it in the inside lock. I think we can safely presume that Meredith's key is not in the inside lock. She should have had time to lock it after dropping the drying rack to slow Rudy down. It could have been in the outside lock or in her purse.

I cut my finger today and before I could get to the paper towels which were just two steps away I had dripped a few drops of blood on the garage floor already. So where is RG blood drops?

This is why I favor the friction burn over the knife cut. Rudy says there was no blood.

 

[Sonia]

There you go again. BELIEVING RUDY. Rudy pays a shady character to stay in a NURSERY? Seriously? And have you ever seen the very beautiful Milan train Station and the VERY beautiful neighborhood around it? Why would he trust a stranger...a person you are describing as a shady character and leave the well lighted train station? He never even tells the police the name of the person who supposedly let him in. This is the same nursery that was burglarized and had 2000 Euros stolen from it on October 6 and 7th.

There are far too many coincidences that add up to Rudy.

Let's start on

1. September 27th Cristian Tremantano says he was burglarized by RUDY
GUEDE. (only a few blocks from his home in Perugia)

2 Weekend of October 6-7 Milan. Maria Del Prato's nursery is broken into and the burglar steals 2000 Euros and cooks a large meal of Pasta and spinach.

3.Weekend of October 13-14 Someone throws a rock through a second floor window and burglarizes the law offices of Paolo Brocchi on Via Del Roscetto about 4 blocks from Rudy's in Perugia
4. October 23rd. Someone breaks in the apartment next door to Rudy Guede's eats a lot of food, starts a fire and steals Ms Maria Mandu Diaz's gold watch.

5. October 27 Rudy Guede is caught red handed inside the nursery of Maria Del Prato. The same nursery that was burglarized a month before. Rudy is caught with knife, a laptop stolen from the law office and a ladies gold watch. Rudy says that he bought the laptop from someone at the train station in Milan..(an obvious lie).. So why believe another word that Rudy says?

Personally these are far too many coincidence to ignore and in every one there is a a connection to Rudy Guede.

You can believe Rudy Guede's stories, but you'll excuse me if I think they are bs. Of course, no one can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Rudy had anything to do with these crimes with the exception of the break in at the nursery. But I think there are more than enough links to Rudy to give seriousconsideration to the idea that the cottage was in fact another burglary for Rudy Guede.

You can discount these incidents as mere embellishment, but I don't buy it. If I had to bet on Rudy's involvement in each and everyone of them, I'd bet on that involvement.

Add to the beginning of this series of events the last favor that Mrs. Caporali did for Rudy. In July 2007, the wife of Paolo Caporali, the wealthy owner of the Liomatic coffee-vending machine company, used her influence to arrange for Rudy to rent a spartan student apartment on via Canerino in Perugia. Her family had taken him into their home as a teen, until they finally had to kick him out for getting into trouble, lying, and failing to commit himself to either study or work.

Following his expulsion from the Caporali home, Rudy had drifted up to his aunt's in northern Italy, and then aimlessly drifted back to Perugia in late spring 2007. Mrs. Caporali might have paid Rudy's first month's rent and security deposit to secure his apartment in July, because he had no savings, but from that point he was on his own. The Caporali family have repeated stated that they had washed their hands of him.

Living in his new apartment meant that Rudy had to come up with his own rent for August, September, and October. Somehow. With neither a job nor any visible means of support. Did we ever learn if Rudy's November rent was paid before he bolted to Germany? Or was he counting on having that long All Saints' Day holiday weekend to gather the funds he needed from empty student apartments, using his practiced second-story skills and a hefty rock?

 

[anglolawyer]

You have seen the same images and you've made no mention of it up to now. Rudy probably picked up the drying rack rather than risk tripping over it in the darkened hall. We know it was picked up by the time Rudy walks out leaving the bloody trail of shoeprints. This gave Meredith a couple of seconds. Enough time to close her door but the key is not in the inside lock so she can only try to hold the handle. (It is possible that Rudy is the one that cracks the door at this point Raffaele only notices the crack later when he tries to force the door.) Meredith would go for her phones but Rudy is in and on her instantly and taking away the phones.

I hadn't seen the rack knocked over. If he picked it up there was no need to put it in his story. But I guess that is over-thinking. I am intrigued by this new theory of Cody's (new to me anyway) and backed by RandyN. Every fibre of my being is against it but I can't think of a knock-out punch right now.

 

[codyjuneau]

The interrior door keys can be found where they were last used. The bathroom keys are in the inside lock which makes sense that the bathrooms would only be locked from the inside. Amanda's key is in the inside lock of her door but Amanda doesn't even remember this. She probably never even closes her door and the key is where she tested it the first time. Laura's key is in the outside lock. She may lock her room when she is going out of town or when she has valuable ithms like a Laptop in there. But she didn't lock it this time. It shows she trusts her roommates. Filomena's key is not seen. It's not in the outside lock and there is no view to see it in the inside lock. I think we can safely presume that Meredith's key is not in the inside lock. She should have had time to lock it after dropping the drying rack to slow Rudy down. It could have been in the outside lock or in her purse.

This is why I favor the friction burn over the knife cut. Rudy says there was no blood.

.
A cut similar to a paper cut can be quite painful, but not bleed very much. It really depends on the depth of the cut. They can also take a long time to heal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_cut
.

 

[cuki777]

cuki pbs #98

Cristian is a little more sketchy. By the way it is spelled Cristian Tramontano. Rudi's name only came up after his pictures were in the paper.

The only "proof" of Rudi breaking into the law offices is that he had their stuff. Fences always have stolen stuff and no they don't always buy the stuff, sometimes, like drugs, it is fronted to them. It could be the case that Rudi owed the man money and they went with him to get it at the cottage.
What was Koko or Cocoa doing there?

glad you're keeping the HK possibility alive.

yes good possibility in bold - and if MK got a visual of this guy things would have got nasty

bear in mind, according to the majority on this board, the most important piece of evidence THE MURDER WEAPON(S) have never been found - so whoever's prints are on those would be pretty conclusive

you asked about Peruguian Albanian drug mafia. I would say you wouldn't want to mess with them - whether you are in or out of prison. The right to spill blood runs deep:

Wiki on the sacred book of the Alabanians: Some of the most controversial rules of the Kanun (in particular book 10 section 3) specify how murder is supposed to be handled, which often in the past and sometimes still now lead to blood feuds that last until all the men of the two involved families are killed. In some parts of the country, the Kanun resembles the Italian vendetta.[17] These rules have resurfaced during the 1990s in Northern Albania, since people had no faith in the powerless local government and police. There are organizations that try to mediate between feuding families and try to get them to "pardon the blood" (Albanian: Falja e Gjakut), but often the only resort is for men of age to stay in their homes, which are considered a safe refuge by the Kanuni, or flee the country. The Albanian name for blood feud is Gjakmarrja.

 

[Skind]

I hadn't seen the rack knocked over. If he picked it up there was no need to put it in his story. But I guess that is over-thinking.

Except if he knocked it over, he has no way of knowing whether he managed to pick everything up or not, or if he returned everything to the original place. A returning flatmate might have noticed the clothes on the rack were not put back right.

So, saying the rack got knocked over accounts for anything being in the wrong place and infers 'The Real Killer (Who Is Totally Not Me)' must have picked it up after Guede had gone.

Bingo! His story includes details that actually happened whilst leaving out the details that would be incriminating.

Without knowing the exact date he made the rack statement, it may not be possible to exclude him making up a explanation after being informed that the police were wondering why the hallway was a bit of a mess.

 

[Dan O.]

.
A cut similar to a paper cut can be quite painful, but not bleed very much. It really depends on the depth of the cut. They can also take a long time to heal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_cut
.

A blade made of paper is limited in the force it can apply to the skin so it is not able to cut deep enough to reach the blood vessels. But it does cut down to the nerve endings. And being a relatively rough edge it does more damage at that depth and leaves behind paper fibers that continue to irritate the wound. Without the blood, the fast healing process cannot take place.

In comparison, a knife blade is backed by the stiffness of the steel. And while a knife in a skilled hand is capable of making the shallowest of cuts, in a fight with fast swings and blocking, the knife is going to penetrate deep into the skin.

 

[Strozzi]

True, If I were writing an Italian-style motivation in which the whole story has to be set out, evidence or not, then I would include the jangling keys and calling out ideas but I agree they are just speculations about something we can never know unless Rudy squeals on himself.

It will be interesting if/when he gets out to see if anyone can prod something out of him. Truth will out after all

Anglolawyer, I think you are right. Someone is going to befriend a lonely Rudy, flatter him, ply him with alcohol or drugs, get him talking, and record it. This will bring out more details that challenge the prosecution's claims.

I want to hear him talk about how he did the crime. Also, what his lawyer told him about falling in line with what the police and Mignini were claiming. Telling him not to contradict them.

Suppose drunk Rudy tells where he ditched the real knife and it is found in that vicinity? Rusty, but matching his description already recorded on tape, and being the right dimensions to properly fit the stab wounds and bloody knife outline on Meredith's bed sheet.

 

[anglolawyer]

glad you're keeping the HK possibility alive.

yes good possibility in bold - and if MK got a visual of this guy things would have got nasty

bear in mind, according to the majority on this board, the most important piece of evidence THE MURDER WEAPON(S) have never been found - so whoever's prints are on those would be pretty conclusive

you asked about Peruguian Albanian drug mafia. I would say you wouldn't want to mess with them - whether you are in or out of prison. The right to spill blood runs deep:

Wiki on the sacred book of the Alabanians: Some of the most controversial rules of the Kanun (in particular book 10 section 3) specify how murder is supposed to be handled, which often in the past and sometimes still now lead to blood feuds that last until all the men of the two involved families are killed. In some parts of the country, the Kanun resembles the Italian vendetta.[17] These rules have resurfaced during the 1990s in Northern Albania, since people had no faith in the powerless local government and police. There are organizations that try to mediate between feuding families and try to get them to "pardon the blood" (Albanian: Falja e Gjakut), but often the only resort is for men of age to stay in their homes, which are considered a safe refuge by the Kanuni, or flee the country. The Albanian name for blood feud is Gjakmarrja.

Book 10, section 3? LOL. What the heck is it? The Encyclopedia Albania?

 

[Diocletus]

They did use that video. Note the time the press is reporting:

2007-11-12 Corrier (it)
PERUGIA - On the evening of November 1 Amanda Knox returned home at 20:43. His entry was recorded by the camera which is located in the parking lot in front. The images are quite sharp, capturing the details. You see the young through the door. Wear light-colored clothing, the skirt has. She is alone.
2007-11-12 Telegraph
A camera in the carpark opposite Miss Kercher’s house has a "clear-cut image" of 20-year-old Amanda Knox, from Seattle, on the premises, according to police.
The CCTV footage apparently shows Knox entering the driveway of the house at 8.43pm on the night, wearing a light-coloured skirt.
2007-11-13 Independent
Police revealed that Amanda Knox was picked up by CCTV cameras situated above the building where she lived with the Leeds University student, contradicting her previous claims that she had spent the night with her Italian boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito.
The images appear to show Ms Knox wearing a light coloured skirt and top entering the building at 8.43pm on 1 November, the night Ms Kercher was killed.
2008-02-28 Sky News
Cameras overlooking the 'House of Horrors' as it has been dubbed have captured US student Knox at 20.43 on November 1 dressed in a light coloured skirt and top.
A police source in Perugia, where Meredith was studying, said: It will be interesting to see what she has to say when we show her the footage.​

Later they will discover that Amanda has an alibi for that time.

But these stories describe a woman in white skirt walking into the cottage. The video that quarto grando is all excited about is someone in pants walking into the parking garage.

Eta: what is really interesting is that they've already decided, at this early date, that the clock is 10 minutes fast, and they are adjusting the CCTV time-stamp for use by the press.

 

[carbonjam72]

CCTV light colored skirt and top

They did use that video. Note the time the press is reporting:

2007-11-12 Corrier (it)
PERUGIA - On the evening of November 1 Amanda Knox returned home at 20:43. His entry was recorded by the camera which is located in the parking lot in front. The images are quite sharp, capturing the details. You see the young through the door. Wear light-colored clothing, the skirt has. She is alone.
2007-11-12 Telegraph
A camera in the carpark opposite Miss Kercher’s house has a "clear-cut image" of 20-year-old Amanda Knox, from Seattle, on the premises, according to police.
The CCTV footage apparently shows Knox entering the driveway of the house at 8.43pm on the night, wearing a light-coloured skirt.
2007-11-13 Independent
Police revealed that Amanda Knox was picked up by CCTV cameras situated above the building where she lived with the Leeds University student, contradicting her previous claims that she had spent the night with her Italian boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito.
The images appear to show Ms Knox wearing a light coloured skirt and top entering the building at 8.43pm on 1 November, the night Ms Kercher was killed.
2008-02-28 Sky News
Cameras overlooking the 'House of Horrors' as it has been dubbed have captured US student Knox at 20.43 on November 1 dressed in a light coloured skirt and top.
A police source in Perugia, where Meredith was studying, said: It will be interesting to see what she has to say when we show her the footage.​

Later they will discover that Amanda has an alibi for that time.

But these stories describe a woman in white skirt walking into the cottage. The video that quarto grando is all excited about is someone in pants walking into the parking garage.

If you look at the CCTV footage recently at issue, the mystery woman is wearing a 'colored' overcoat, and in this earlier frame, her body type is plainly obese. The bottom of the coat might look like a "light colored skirt", and if you're not too constrained by fact, the upper part of the coat might just pass for, "and top" of the "light colored skirt". (A description similar to Amanda's clothing that night, right?).



But it goes to show the quality of investigation, the poor faculties of perception, the willingness to jump to mistaken conclusions, and most of all, the active interest in misleading public opinion so crucial to poisoning the jury pool and undermining the trial process.

I can't understand that this image of an obese woman, showing that the use by the media of a side-view frame to conceal her girth solely that she might be mistaken for Amanda, isn't being seen as revealing the maliciousness of publishing intentionally false information to harm two innocent people by subjecting them to cruel unjust imprisonment for most of their lives for a crime they did not commit.



Where is the outrage? Is the behavior so common place by now, that we barely even notice? Isn't this the very definition of the Italian laws for "Calumny"?

 

[carbonjam72]

Rudy' last month's rent

Add to the beginning of this series of events the last favor that Mrs. Caporali did for Rudy. In July 2007, the wife of Paolo Caporali, the wealthy owner of the Liomatic coffee-vending machine company, used her influence to arrange for Rudy to rent a spartan student apartment on via Canerino in Perugia. Her family had taken him into their home as a teen, until they finally had to kick him out for getting into trouble, lying, and failing to commit himself to either study or work.

Following his expulsion from the Caporali home, Rudy had drifted up to his aunt's in northern Italy, and then aimlessly drifted back to Perugia in late spring 2007. Mrs. Caporali might have paid Rudy's first month's rent and security deposit to secure his apartment in July, because he had no savings, but from that point he was on his own. The Caporali family have repeated stated that they had washed their hands of him.

Living in his new apartment meant that Rudy had to come up with his own rent for August, September, and October. Somehow. With neither a job nor any visible means of support. Did we ever learn if Rudy's November rent was paid before he bolted to Germany? Or was he counting on having that long All Saints' Day holiday weekend to gather the funds he needed from empty student apartments, using his practiced second-story skills and a hefty rock?

I think Raf's book has Rudy skipping out on his rent when he left town after the crime.

 

[Strozzi]

They did use that video. Note the time the press is reporting:

2007-11-12 Corrier (it)
PERUGIA - On the evening of November 1 Amanda Knox returned home at 20:43. His entry was recorded by the camera which is located in the parking lot in front. The images are quite sharp, capturing the details. You see the young through the door. Wear light-colored clothing, the skirt has. She is alone.
2007-11-12 Telegraph
A camera in the carpark opposite Miss Kercher’s house has a "clear-cut image" of 20-year-old Amanda Knox, from Seattle, on the premises, according to police.
The CCTV footage apparently shows Knox entering the driveway of the house at 8.43pm on the night, wearing a light-coloured skirt.
2007-11-13 Independent
Police revealed that Amanda Knox was picked up by CCTV cameras situated above the building where she lived with the Leeds University student, contradicting her previous claims that she had spent the night with her Italian boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito.
The images appear to show Ms Knox wearing a light coloured skirt and top entering the building at 8.43pm on 1 November, the night Ms Kercher was killed.
2008-02-28 Sky News
Cameras overlooking the 'House of Horrors' as it has been dubbed have captured US student Knox at 20.43 on November 1 dressed in a light coloured skirt and top.
A police source in Perugia, where Meredith was studying, said: It will be interesting to see what she has to say when we show her the footage.​

Later they will discover that Amanda has an alibi for that time.

This is quite interesting. It suggests that the police at first thought they had video of Amanda passing through the parking garage, walking away from the cottage at videoclock time 20:43 pm which they knew to be about 20 minutes before Meredith returned home. This would have contributed to their certainty that Amanda was lying about her activities that evening, since they had her on the garage video.

At some point (maybe many days later) in investigating Amanda's alibi of being at Raffaele's apartment at that time, the police may have gone back to the video and realized that the person in the image is not Amanda. So they dropped it as evidence, except maybe not all the police agreed with that or got the word and someone in the investigation (police) leaked the story that she was seen on the video at 20:43. Corrier (It) and Telegraph published it on 2007-11-12, followed by other media.

During their midnight interrogation of Amanda, the police told her they had proof that she was at her apartment that evening. Were they just lying to her, or did they at this time still believe the garage video was her?

Whether they really initially believed the image was Amanda, or knew from the beginning that it was inconclusive or definitely not Amanda, the police had many other things to do than identify who else it might be.

 

[Dan O.]

Jovana Popovic of Serbia is the one that gives Amanda an alibi for that time. She had gone back to Serbia before Raffaele's arrest. It was about a week lat that she contacts the Perugia police to give a statement. The exact timing needs to be verified because it seems odd that the Perugia police are telling the press that they have video of Amanda returning home when they already know she has an alibi for that exact time. This might be an attempt to force Jovana to change her statement. Notice that none of those news sources say they actually saw the video.

It is in the testimony of Mauro Barbadori that we learn the exact figure for the difference between the CCTV clock and real time is 10 minutes. 20:51 becomes 20:41. The 20:43 number must come from the time this other person is entering the car park. Why do they apply the time of one to the description of the other when releasing the story to the press?

 

[Dan O.]

I can't understand that this image of an obese woman, showing that the use by the media of a side-view frame to conceal her girth solely that she might be mistaken for Amanda, isn't being seen as revealing the maliciousness of publishing intentionally false information to harm two innocent people by subjecting them to cruel unjust imprisonment for most of their lives for a crime they did not commit.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_67903536f690ede411.jpg[/qimg]

Where is the outrage? Is the behavior so common place by now, that we barely even notice? Isn't this the very definition of the Italian laws for "Calumny"?

We don't know if some of that isn't due to distortion of the image. Compare the background to other images from that camera and see if other people walking in that frame appear similarly obese.

 

[RWVBWL]

4 Days?

Greetings everyone,
I looked around a bit more,
found a few more interesting bits of info:

"RE Oceania8,
whose son knew Rudy and mentions his "friend"

You should ask Oceania 8, who early on began talking up the idea of Rudy's "accomplice", the guy who "got away" and who Rudy is "afraid of". As far as I can tell, this story is loosely based on O8's son's relationship with Rudy and other townies. O's son was a student in Perugia. According to O, he and his housemates were picked up for questioning by police four days after Meredith Kercher's murder."


Oceania8's son, who knew Rudy Guede, and his housemates were picked up for questioning 4 days after Meredith death?
From what I gather,
O8 said she also posted that the cops were looking for someone 'RG' before Rudy was busted...

Interesting bit of info there...
The above quote is from Skep Bystander,
so I kinda believe that her recollection is correct...
There is more info on early PMF, before the split also.

Oceania8 also used Oceania88 elsewhere.
('88 was a fun year in my life, I was gettin' paid to surf, photo's in magazines, winnin' $$$$ in surf contests, datin' a rad chick. Me thinks the 88 is when Oceania's son was born, the dude who knew Rudy when he studied in Perugia. He'd abeen around 19 then, my guess anyways)




The other note of interest I found was a truer,
much better translation of the article that Nacho Azparren wrote of that I linked the other day.

Katy_did found and posted of it 1st, months ago and a poster on IIP named Merlinovich, from Mexico City, Mexico did a much smoother translation of it back on Thurs. Feb 27, 2014:
http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=747&hilit=Nencini&start=39400#p133189

Of note were these passages:
The confidence the neighbors of Corso Garibaldi had with Rudy was unlimited. The house of the Ivorian and the neighbors was interjoined by a place for washing clothes. "Rudy was just one of us. We washed together and he helped us when some electric device was not working" explains Carolina, his neighbor. "I remember when he showed me how to use the washing machine. Since I didn't speak any Italian he only told me "White with white!", she adds.

The Spanish girls shared the expenses of electricity with Guede. The level of confidence between the neighbors permitted Carolina to see the apartment of Guede. "He had a very small apartment, full of computers. It was a surprise for me because there was no internet in the house. He also told me he worked for Armani in something related to IT, as his father had done", she tells. The lifestyle of the Ivorian was peculiar. He would be away for days to Milan, supposedly to attend the work with Armani. The alleged job tasks of the Ivorian was to prepare the computers for presentations and fairs. "Once he showed us photos embracing Girgio Armani. But something didn't quite fit", Carolina points out.
<snip>
The most important contact Guede had with the Spanish group was the night of Halloween, one day before the murder of Meredith Kercher. The sympathy we had for him from previous encounters made us invite him to go out with us that night. In the first encounters, Guede had avoided to give us his cellphone number. He only wrote down the phone number of Carlos, who served as a link to him on Halloween.

"The same day that we were going to celebrate the party, Rudy called to join up", Carlos commented. The two of them had become friends through the basketball. Guede was a regular player in the street matches that took place in front of Palazzo Galenga, one of the most celebrated universities of Italy.
<snip>
We found out about the murder through the Perugia Police. The newspapers were telling about the brutal murder of the English Erasmus student, but none of us related that to our experiences with Guede. "Come to the questura immediately". Carlos and Carolina was in Switzerland when they received the call from the agents. When they arrived to Perugia I accompanied them to the police station. The reason for the inquiry had been the call from Guede to Carlos on the night of Halloween."


So The Spanish girls shared the electric bill with Rudy.
I would bet that Rudy might have gave them $$ for this so the electric could be paid on time. These gals, being foreign students, surely paid their rent on time. They might know of Rudy's cash flow, if he could pay it on time, etc. The reason I wonder this is because, from what I recall, Rudy's landlord wanted a statement from an employer showing that he had a job.
Why would a new landlord of only a few months need this?
As Sonia asked about above, I too wonder:
Was Rudy already having difficulty paying his September and October rent?


Nacho Azparren also writes that he went with Carlos and Carolina to the police station after they returned to Perugia.
I wonder what date this was?

More on The Spanish Erasmus student neighbors, this from Court:
http://masseireport.wordpress.com/contents/rudy-hermann-guede/

Marta Fernandez Nieto and Carolina Espinilla Martin, after having denied knowing either Amanda or Meredith, reported having met Rudy toward the end of September 2007 since he lived in the apartment below theirs at Via Del Canerino 26 in Perugia. They furthermore stated that they had gone out with Rudy on both the 29th and 30th of October, and with regard to the night between October 31st and November 1st, the night of Halloween, they recalled being with Rudy — whom they had met at around 10:30 pm at the house of an acquaintance of theirs living on Via Campo di Battaglia — almost the whole time. There were about 30 people, and they lingered there until around midnight. Rudy was with them when they then went to the home of another Spanish youth [ragazzo], to Piazza Italia [note: home in Piazza Italia?], and when Carolina went to “Domus”, Rudy, who was with Spanish youths the whole time, went also. The only girl with whom she [antecedent unclear; either Nieto or Mattin; probably Martin] had seen him dance was “a blond girl with smooth, long hair” (cf. statements of Marta Fernandez Nieto and Carolina Espinilla Martin taken on 21-6-2007 and admitted into evidence [acquisite ai fini della utilizzabilità] in the hearing of 7-3-2009).


The Spanish girlz know a lot about Rudy, I bet.
Did he have friends over, were they loud, drinkin' carryin' on? Or did Rudy keep to himself when he came home, never friends visiting him? Any girls come by, sleep over? Etc...

I also wonder, amongst many other things,
might Carolina or Marta know of the fire that destroyed Ms. Mandu-Diaz residence, whom also lived next door?