Palcohol (powdered alcohol)

[ponderingturtle]

60% of it's weight in alcohol?
It would end up as a pretty sweet drink like with a main market of teens.

Seeing what other alcoholic horrors are being marketed to them, this might not be more than a gimmick.


Good point about the lifeboat, all they have now is water and those sweet greasy biscuit.

The sugar based powder might not be sweet. If they are large enough then they would be more like a starch.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I see no reason why this shouldn't be brought to market. It doesn't seem to me to have any inherent problems that any other form of alcoholic beverage doesn't.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I see no reason why this shouldn't be brought to market. It doesn't seem to me to have any inherent problems that any other form of alcoholic beverage doesn't.

But it is different therefore bad!

 

[Brian-M]

Depends on what mix of what cyclodextrins and the amount of water. In general cyclodextrins tend to be less flammable than simple sugars with a high ignition temperature.

I think you missed theprestige's joke. Flammable and inflammable mean exactly the same thing.

 

[Olowkow]

Ours, noted above, was also 200 proof - in the bottle - but as noted as soon as the bottle was opened It became 190. Our 180 proof/90% came in 50 gallon drums and could not be denatured as they were (mostly) used for medical purposes for which they needed to be close to pure and no contaminants other than H2O.

....
Probably a good thing, I'd guess that was denatured alcohol of some form; it's ethanol mixed with propanol, methanol, glycols or benzene to render it undrinkable and thus exempt from alcohol duties. Depending on the adulterant it could be unpleasant or toxic.

I looked up the store room reference to the ethanol we used, and it was much cheaper than I remembered for the pint. It used to be in glass bottles, but more recently in plastic pint bottles. Ethanol has very low surface tension, and did not harm most plastics, and these qualities came in handy for many cleaning and other purposes.

ETHYL ALCOHOL 100% 1PT 200 PROOF $1.91ETHYL ALCOHOL 100% 1 GAL 200 PROOF $11.49
ETHYL ALCOHOL 200 PROOF BULK $7.89

"BULK" is special red steel gallon containers.

Hmm, I never paid much attention to the label, but I am pretty sure there was no "poison" designation on it. I often wondered how it could be sold with no tax stamps. I doubt that it was denatured, but now I can't be sure.

ETA: Well, well, well. Here is the MSDS of the exact stuff I was referring to.
http://www.deconlabs.com/msds/ETHANOL 200 Proof MSDS.pdf

Well this is confusing. Here is the (Neobits) Decon Laboratories listing for 200 proof ethanol! $65.95 a pint??? WTF?

http://www.neobits.com/decon_labs_2...html?atc=gbp&gclid=CPPMxdrtmb4CFe47MgodaHAAEA

Decon Labs - 2716GEATP - 200 Proof Pure Ethanol (Each (1pt US)) Stock Status: Usually In Stock (Shipping delay possible) Our Price: $65.95Alert me if price drops Lists at:$82.79 You save: $16.84

 

[catsmate]

The sugar based powder might not be sweet. If they are large enough then they would be more like a starch.

It is, cluster of sugar molecules.

I looked up the store room reference to the ethanol we used, and it was much cheaper than I remembered for the pint. It used to be in glass bottles, but more recently in plastic pint bottles. Ethanol has very low surface tension, and did not harm most plastics, and these qualities came in handy for many cleaning and other purposes.

"BULK" is special red steel gallon containers.

Hmm, I never paid much attention to the label, but I am pretty sure there was no "poison" designation on it. I often wondered how it could be sold with no tax stamps. I doubt that it was denatured, but now I can't be sure.

ETA: Well, well, well. Here is the MSDS of the exact stuff I was referring to.
http://www.deconlabs.com/msds/ETHANOL 200 Proof MSDS.pdf

Well this is confusing. Here is the (Neobits) Decon Laboratories listing for 200 proof ethanol! $65.95 a pint??? WTF?

http://www.neobits.com/decon_labs_2...html?atc=gbp&gclid=CPPMxdrtmb4CFe47MgodaHAAEA

100% ethanol should be labelled poison anyway. There are a few adulteration mixes that are legally acceptable but not toxic to humans, say with denatonium. Generally if it's cheap there's a reason the manufacturer didn't need to pay the duty.

 

[mijopaalmc]

That makes sense.

I was thinking in my own straight no rocks kind of way. I never considered just dumping a handful of powdered Absolut or Beefeater into a glass of grapefruit juice to make an in-flight greyhound.

The way airlines operate, I'm imagining a flight attendant walking down the aisle with an open bag of powdered booze, scooping it dry into the waiting maws of the passengers. That would save fuel and time.

While that is a delightfully cynical take on things, I would imagine that, if the base (here, cyclodesxtrins) were neutral with respect to taste you could get your liquor of choice. However, cyclodextrins are mildly sweet and extremely polar, so they would only alter the taste by sweetenting what ever spirit was "powedered", but also would most likely not sequester the other tastants–which isn't so much of a problem with vodka and other essentially neutral spirits. The other option is that you make a concentrated solutionof Palcohol which would quickly melt a generous portion of ice.

 

[pgwenthold]

While that is a delightfully cynical take on things, I would imagine that, if the base (here, cyclodesxtrins) were neutral with respect to taste you could get your liquor of choice. However, cyclodextrins are mildly sweet.

I've been looking for sweetness ratings for cyclodextrins, but can't find anything. You have information on that?

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Cyclodextrin seems to be used to mask bitter tastes.

http://www.wacker.com/cms/media/publications/downloads/6750_EN.pdf

Also while 4 of the varieties palcohol make are cocktails, the other 2 are vodka and rum, so I assume they they are not overly sugary tasting.

 

[fuelair]

I looked up the store room reference to the ethanol we used, and it was much cheaper than I remembered for the pint. It used to be in glass bottles, but more recently in plastic pint bottles. Ethanol has very low surface tension, and did not harm most plastics, and these qualities came in handy for many cleaning and other purposes.

"BULK" is special red steel gallon containers.

Hmm, I never paid much attention to the label, but I am pretty sure there was no "poison" designation on it. I often wondered how it could be sold with no tax stamps. I doubt that it was denatured, but now I can't be sure.

ETA: Well, well, well. Here is the MSDS of the exact stuff I was referring to.
http://www.deconlabs.com/msds/ETHANOL 200 Proof MSDS.pdf

Well this is confusing. Here is the (Neobits) Decon Laboratories listing for 200 proof ethanol! $65.95 a pint??? WTF?

http://www.neobits.com/decon_labs_2...html?atc=gbp&gclid=CPPMxdrtmb4CFe47MgodaHAAEA

My best guess is that the 65.95 eth. is reagent and free of contaminents - that is like the stuff we had as 100%. And, remember the diesel fuel - used for some purposes it has colorant added and is cheaper due to lower/no tax. Not colored, taxed /taxed more - and if your vehicle is checked and you have the colorant version you get to talk to police/feds.

 

[pgwenthold]

Cyclodextrin seems to be used to mask bitter tastes.

That makes sense, since it pretty much complexes everything. Whatever caused the bitter taste is going to be complexed in the CD, keeping it away from taste buds.

 

[catsmate]

Cyclodextrin seems to be used to mask bitter tastes.

http://www.wacker.com/cms/media/publications/downloads/6750_EN.pdf

Also while 4 of the varieties palcohol make are cocktails, the other 2 are vodka and rum, so I assume they they are not overly sugary tasting.

It would depend on which cyclodextrins.
β-cyclodextrin in aqueous solution is listed as sweeter than a similar amount of sucrose. As you said they're used with synthetic sweetners (like aspartame) to mask the bitter aftertaste.
Given it's cheapness compared to the other common cyclodextrins and it's hydrophilic nature this will probably be one of the main constituents.

My best guess is that the 65.95 eth. is reagent and free of contaminents - that is like the stuff we had as 100%. And, remember the diesel fuel - used for some purposes it has colorant added and is cheaper due to lower/no tax. Not colored, taxed /taxed more - and if your vehicle is checked and you have the colorant version you get to talk to police/feds.

I don't know for sure not but the regs in the US that I remember, as well as the UK and Ireland, required undutied alcohol to be undrinkable, with specified and approved adulterants.

 

[tyr_13]

I don't know for sure not but the regs in the US that I remember, as well as the UK and Ireland, required undutied alcohol to be undrinkable, with specified and approved adulterants.

In the US during Prohibition, they started putting adulterants into industrial alcohol. Over a thousand people died in New York alone.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

In the US during Prohibition, they started putting adulterants into industrial alcohol. Over a thousand people died in New York alone.

Some put lye into the booze to give it a more authoritative "kick".

 

[Brian-M]

And, remember the diesel fuel - used for some purposes it has colorant added and is cheaper due to lower/no tax. Not colored, taxed /taxed more - and if your vehicle is checked and you have the colorant version you get to talk to police/feds.

The diesel fuel with coloring is sold as heating oil, and I think it's also used for agricultural machinery that isn't permitted on the roads.

But they don't add coloring everywhere. Apparently New Zealand finds it simpler not to add coloring or road-tax to diesel fuel, but instead they charge drivers of diesel (and electric) vehicles a per-kilometer road-use tax. That way they don't have to worry about drivers sneakily using untaxed fuel.

(I know this because I recently saw an episode of Highway Patrol where the driver got a fine for not having his diesel tax paid up, and I had to look it up to find out what they were talking about.)

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

The diesel fuel with coloring is sold as heating oil, and I think it's also used for agricultural machinery that isn't permitted on the roads.

It doesn't have to be agricultural machinery, just machinery that doesn't go on the roads. We've got a red diesel tank at work that we use to fill up our generators.

And it's not necessarily what everybody does, either. We did a private party for a rich farmer and in exchange for a discount he filled up all our vehicles and generators. He and all the rest of the farmers in the area clubbed together and bought white diesel in bulk directly from the petrol company. Because they bought it in bulk, even with the tax, it worked out cheaper than buying red diesel from anyone other than the petrol company direct, and then they could also use it to fill up the vehicles they had which they did take on the road.

 

[catsmate]

In the US during Prohibition, they started putting adulterants into industrial alcohol. Over a thousand people died in New York alone.

Yeah, I've used that in backstory and plots in Call of Cthulhu; the 'Ginger Jake' epidemic was another example.

 

[Octavo]

I was just reading an article about powdered alcohol. At 12% by volume, it seems a pretty inefficient way to store or transport alcohol. However, that raised another question.

With MSG, a sodium ion is bonded to glutamate to produce a stable powder/crystal. Would it not be possible to turn alcohol into a type of salt in a similar way?

Could we not add a sodium ion or something to the chemical structure of alcohol to turn it into a solid, rather than encasing it in a sugar molecule? I assume there are good reasons why this hasn't been done yet - either the addition of another element changes the chemical properties of alcohol too much or doesn't result in a solid at room temperature, but I'd love to hear some knowledgeable exposition on this idea.

 

[LorenzoValla]

I say legalize it and treat it like any other product with alcohol. Most people would have no interest. Some backpackers and campers would love it. Perhaps others.

For those who don't realize it, people who do long backpacking treks don't carry multiple days of water with them and instead get water along the way. Powdered alcohol would be appealing to those of them that drink.

As far as the airlines go, I can see how it might make sense logistically, but unless it became a popular choice among other regular drinks, I think it would be seen as an inferior product in the way that most coffee drinkers treat instant coffee.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I wonder how much of this would go on the first Mars exploration trip?

"Okay, we've landed on Mars! Let's open an envelope of champagne!"