acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2012
- Messages
- 39,534
No she wasm't, but she was about 15 years older than Meredith and she had an adult man with her.
Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case
- Thread starter Strozzi
- Start date
- Status
No she wasm't, but she was about 15 years older than Meredith and she had an adult man with her.
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2012
- Messages
- 39,534
No she wasn't, but she was about 15 years older than Meredith and she had an adult man with her. Also, you keep saying necrophiliac. While I believe that Rudy definitely sexually assaulted Meredith, I don't believe he actually had intercourse with her corpse.
Andrea Vogt discusses the Nencini motivation document:
http://thefreelancedesk.com/amanda-knox-trials-meredith-kercher-case/
As I recall, Vecchiotti and Continue were asked by the court to review the evidence showing Raffaele's DNA on the bra clasp and Meredith's DNA on the kitchen knife. They did not review all of the DNA evidence used in this case, just these two that are critical to the prosecution case.
How does evidence that negative controls were done when processing other samples preclude contamination on these specific samples?
Why does the court care that a sample showing Amanda's DNA is on the handle of a kitchen knife found where she helped her boyfriend cook was not tested by V&C?
Is a kit to collect low template DNA relavent when you don't have a lab certified to process low template DNA?
http://thefreelancedesk.com/amanda-knox-trials-meredith-kercher-case/
As I recall, Vecchiotti and Continue were asked by the court to review the evidence showing Raffaele's DNA on the bra clasp and Meredith's DNA on the kitchen knife. They did not review all of the DNA evidence used in this case, just these two that are critical to the prosecution case.
How does evidence that negative controls were done when processing other samples preclude contamination on these specific samples?
Why does the court care that a sample showing Amanda's DNA is on the handle of a kitchen knife found where she helped her boyfriend cook was not tested by V&C?
Is a kit to collect low template DNA relavent when you don't have a lab certified to process low template DNA?
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2012
- Messages
- 39,534
First, lets point out that Rudy may have been more than a casual burglar, but if we assume that Rudy committed those 4 burglaries, we can see that he is dangerous by the Christian Tremantano event..and the fact that he took a large knife from the nursery is more than a little troubling. Also, what is more troubling to me is how Rudy commits his burglaries. These burglaries are emblematic at what are referred to as sexual burglaries. Many or most burglars are concerned about being caught and try and get in and get out of their victims homes as quickly as possible, Rudy's MO seems much more emblematic of what the FBI refers to as "sexual burglars". Burglars that will hang around in their victims places, eating drinking and often rifling through their personals. They are intent on not just stealing but invading their victims space. These are the burglars that are likely to escalate to violence.
There really is no proven connection between Rudy and Amanda or Raffaele. That alone makes me doubt highly that these three were involved in this together.
Maybe Rudy had help at the cottage..but that is much more likely to be someone he knows well and who also has a shady past. But me, I think he was alone, just as he was alone at Christian's and Maria Del Prato's.
Ampulla of Vater
Illuminator
The unknown factor is how those coming across Guede responded. It is probable the nursery school woman reacted calmly, as she knew she had a 6-year old with her and she knew she had a man right behind her. It is just as probable that Meredith screamed or fought which ramped up Guede's response.
Ampulla of Vater
Illuminator
One more thing...
how can you make a statement like this? If you have any doubt, reasonable or otherwise, that Guede murdered and sexually assaulted Meredith, you haven't looked at the evidence closely enough.
Desert Fox
Philosopher
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2014
- Messages
- 6,147
As strange as it may sound, he may not have meant to murder at the time.
As well, I don't he considered it to be necrophilia.
Rudy had sufficient physical superiority over Meredith, along with a knife, to overpower her in the manner of his choosing, thus a range of forensic configurations of the room become plausible. It makes more sense to take the one that exists, and the fact only one footprint set is found, to let Rudy own the whole crime, and make the best attempt at a theory of exactly what happened, as has been done exhaustively here and elsewhere. This would be the case in 99.9% of homicides with this evidence set. Mignini created the fiction of more than one assailant.
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2011
- Messages
- 15,713
I have never understood the effort put in to portray Rudy Guede in a positive light.
Or to defend him.
If there is reasonable doubt that Guede was a murderous necrophiliac, there is ample doubt that Knox and Sollecito were even there that night.
Guede's DNA is inside the victim, and his DNA is in Meredith's purse. Knox's DNA or any other forensics is not in the room at all. Acc. to Nencini, Raffaele's Y-Haplotype is on the bra hooks, along with at least one other man's material, and more specimens Nencini calls "female Y-Haplotypes".
Patricia Stefanoni testifies to Judge Massei in 2009 four possible routes for contamination on that bra-hook, which would explain the extra DNA, but perhaps not the female Y-Haplotypes. (To be clear, Massei rejects those routes.... but that bit of judicial incompetence can wait....)
I have never understood the desire to defend Rudy Guede, except that it is done by those who wish to vilify Amanda Knox (and ignore Raffaele) where there is no evidence..... well all except female Y-Haplotyes, and now Raffaele's DNA on the knife, something no one, not the vilest guilter or prosecutor has claimed in the last six years.
Last edited:
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 12,586
misdirection with respect to kits
IMO the kit is not the issue; it is a "look over there, a squirrel" tactic from Nencini. The fact that one is working in the low template region is the critical issue. For example, there is no guarantee that Amanda directed touched the blade of the knife where 36I was found. In a recent review article, Meakin and Jamieson wrote, "More recent published research has also shown that transfer of DNA can occur between different sites of an item within packaging during its transport between the crime scene and the laboratory."
Briefly as I understand the document, Nencini says
Amanda and Meredith argued about rent money the morning of the murder. About 9 20 Amanda and Raffaele left his apartment with the knife, and joined Rudy at the basketball court. Amanda used her key to let all three in, and thereafter Amanda restrained Meredith from the left, Raffaele from the right, as Rudy sexually assaulted her. Then Raffaele lightly stabbed the right side of her neck before Amanda slit the left side of her throat with the kitchen knife. She stole the money and the phones. Rudy never touched a knife.
Rudy was an experienced professional burglar, so would never use a window for entry when he could easily break in through he front door etc, etc etc
Nencini categorically rules out contamination explaining the knife or bra clasp as there was no possible path.
As an aside, Rudy wasn't a great burglar to let Amanda get away with he money
Desert Fox
Philosopher
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2014
- Messages
- 6,147
Is this plausible?
A coworker's wife gets murdered.
They find my DNA at the crime scene even though I was never there and do not even know where he lives
It got there by my coworker using the same desk as I do and taking my DNA home.
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 12,586
general thoughts on bleach
I think we can identify at least four factors that control how effective bleach is at destroying DNA.
1. The length of time of contact.
2. The concentration of the bleach. There is limited empirical evidence that more concentrated bleach solutions are more effective. A reasonable working hypothesis is that the rate of destruction is proportional to the concentration of bleach (in other words, that the kinetics are first-order in [bleach]), but this would have to be verified.
3. The type of surface. Decontamination of bone, for example, takes longer.
4. The length of the DNA molecule being degraded. Short DNA pieces take more time than longer pieces.
To clarify something I said before, if the knife were briefly soaked in bleach such that not all of the DNA was destroyed, this would probably be evident as a systematic decrease in peak height from shorter to longer pieces of DNA. I don't see any evidence of that.
I think we can identify at least four factors that control how effective bleach is at destroying DNA.
1. The length of time of contact.
2. The concentration of the bleach. There is limited empirical evidence that more concentrated bleach solutions are more effective. A reasonable working hypothesis is that the rate of destruction is proportional to the concentration of bleach (in other words, that the kinetics are first-order in [bleach]), but this would have to be verified.
3. The type of surface. Decontamination of bone, for example, takes longer.
4. The length of the DNA molecule being degraded. Short DNA pieces take more time than longer pieces.
To clarify something I said before, if the knife were briefly soaked in bleach such that not all of the DNA was destroyed, this would probably be evident as a systematic decrease in peak height from shorter to longer pieces of DNA. I don't see any evidence of that.
anglolawyer
Banned
What's happened is Nencini has published. Those who predicted his 377 page motivation would be bull **** were wrong. It's much worse. It is littered with crazy factual errors, for one thing. Examples:
- He thinks the knife blade is 31cm long
- He thinks they found Raffaele's DNA mixed with Meredith's on the blade (a real show-stopper that one)
- but maybe topped by the finding of extra female profiles on the bra clasp!
Also, he has gone through a worm hole back to 2008 and found
- Raf called the cops after the posties arrived
- A female shoe print was found in the murder room
Some interesting time line points are that Naruto gives an alibi up to 'about' 9.20. They got to the apartment between 9.30 and 10.00. She was killed before 10 I think. They let Rudy in. Amanda wielded the machete while Raffaele employed a smaller knife. Rudy used no knife at all. He got his finger cuts some time later. Meredith screamed (I.e. an hour and a half before Nara heard it but that was because it had to travel into the valley and bounce back as an echo - er, I made that bit up
I realise it's hard to tell) There was a clean up. The murder was over money. It must have been Amanda who stole the rent money because how else could Rudy know the amount boggled: I didn't make that up). Stefanoni is vindicated. The negative controls no one has ever seen were filed in 2008 and it was rotten to suggest otherwise therefore she is a good scientist while Conti and Vechiotti are bad ones 
. There was an all night clean up in which Amanda's fingerprints were selectively removed from the whole house. It is irrelevant that Rudy did not know Raf because they both knew Amanda.And so on. Some here think it might all be a very deep joke but I believe he is actually serious. I may be out on a limb there.
Last edited:
Rolfe
Adult human female
Briefly as I understand the document, Nencini says
Amanda and Meredith argued about rent money the morning of the murder. About 9 20 Amanda and Raffaele left his apartment with the knife, and joined Rudy at the basketball court. Amanda used her key to let all three in, and thereafter Amanda restrained Meredith from the left, Raffaele from the right, as Rudy sexually assaulted her. Then Raffaele lightly stabbed the right side of her neck before Amanda slit the left side of her throat with the kitchen knife. She stole the money and the phones. Rudy never touched a knife.
Rudy was an experienced professional burglar, so would never use a window for entry when he could easily break in through he front door etc, etc etc
Nencini categorically rules out contamination explaining the knife or bra clasp as there was no possible path.
As an aside, Rudy wasn't a great burglar to let Amanda get away with he money
Words fail me. I'd think you were spoofing me, but it's just a further progression into bizarroland.
Were they naked in this version?
Rolfe.
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 12,586
Nencini's primitive view of the case
I thought I was beyond being shocked and appalled with respect to this case, but I was wrong. There is a passage in Nencini's report that implies that Nencini thinks that YSTR profiles might come from women. Overall, his view of the case is prehistoric, dredging up long discredited fallacies, such as Amanda's shoe prints being in the murder room, and Raffaele's calling the Carabinieri after the Postal Police had arrived. I am given to understand that he says that Raffaele's DNA is on the knife. The full-throated attack on Conti and Vecchiotti, coupled with the complete failure to address the now-destroyed bra clasp is...astonishing.
Last edited:
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 12,586
Perhaps not likely, but hardly impossible, especially if we are talking about low template DNA (I don't think I could put any numbers on it). Clothing seems to pick up unknown profiles, for example.
Desert Fox
Philosopher
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2014
- Messages
- 6,147
I do want to note that there is such a thing as an XY female
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_female_syndrome
Could also be an XY/XX Chimera
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)#Humans
Edit: I think we would know by now if Amanda had either of these syndromes though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_female_syndrome
Could also be an XY/XX Chimera
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)#Humans
Edit: I think we would know by now if Amanda had either of these syndromes though.
Last edited:
The PGP are lapping it up of course and have teams of translators working to divine the purest meaning.
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2012
- Messages
- 39,534
Briefly as I understand the document, Nencini says
Amanda and Meredith argued about rent money the morning of the murder. About 9 20 Amanda and Raffaele left his apartment with the knife, and joined Rudy at the basketball court. Amanda used her key to let all three in, and thereafter Amanda restrained Meredith from the left, Raffaele from the right, as Rudy sexually assaulted her. Then Raffaele lightly stabbed the right side of her neck before Amanda slit the left side of her throat with the kitchen knife. She stole the money and the phones. Rudy never touched a knife.
Rudy was an experienced professional burglar, so would never use a window for entry when he could easily break in through he front door etc, etc etc
Nencini categorically rules out contamination explaining the knife or bra clasp as there was no possible path.
As an aside, Rudy wasn't a great burglar to let Amanda get away with he money
Such a joke, never mind that no one else is apparent in the room aside from Rudy. But seriously, why would Rudy go along with Amanda in killing Meredith. She met both only two weeks before? Why would he do do this. Why would Raffaeal after just one week? Because Raffaele would do anything for sex from Amanda?
Do these people actually think about how bizarre this is before they write it?
- Status