Wisconsin Voter ID

thaiboxerken said:
The reality is that Democrats want everyone to vote and win elections by convincing voters that their policies and philosophies are better than the opponent.

Republicans don't want to go through the trouble of turning voters, they'd rather just not let those who disagree with them vote at all.
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Well, it sounds like you've convinced felons, the unstable and those who cant make good long term choices that voting Democrat is the way to go! Kudos!
 
Giz said:
Well, it sounds like you've convinced felons, the unstable and those who cant make good long term choices that voting Democrat is the way to go! Kudos!
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Also those with postgraduate education. But they seem to be having trouble winning over the racists, homophobes, conspiracy theorists, misogynists, backwoods insurrectionists, neo-Confederates, and end-times religious extremists from the Republicans. So, you know, good job on convincing all of those people to vote for you!
 
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Giz said:
Well, it sounds like you've convinced felons, the unstable and those who cant make good long term choices that voting Democrat is the way to go! Kudos!
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I realize that distracting from the topic at hand via mischaracterization is an attractive proposition when an argument is floundering as badly as the one for voter ID laws is, but can't you find a more appropriate venue for this stuff?

Maybe a local playground, for example?
 
Giz said:
Well, it sounds like you've convinced felons, the unstable and those who cant make good long term choices that voting Democrat is the way to go! Kudos!
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By allowing them to vote? Why are you opposed to letting people participate in the democratic process?
 
johnny karate said:
I think your argument is ridiculous because you are basing a justification for this law on how it personally affects you without considering the other 300 million people with whom you share this country.
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No, I don't expect everyone to have my same circumstances, and I know where you're probably coming from, but you're limiting your thinking scope as if there aren't options available to ease the burden substantially in the event of such laws becoming mainstream. That's far from the case.

johnny karate said:
I think not drafting unnecessary laws in the first place might be simpler.
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I would have to disagree that it's an unnecessary law to have. Our voting integrity needs to be sound and that's not an issue to me of how rare fraud is. It's an issue of keeping fraud out of our elections proactively.

Maybe it's not the first thing that should be addressed in our screwed electoral system given some examples that were provided, but eventually I think it should be. If a law doesn't account for those protections to your satisfaction vote against them, I'll do the same. If it addresses the concerns and works well I plan to vote for it. That's been my point all along.

thaiboxerken said:
The reality is that Democrats want everyone to vote and win elections by convincing voters that their policies and philosophies are better than the opponent.

Republicans don't want to go through the trouble of turning voters, they'd rather just not let those who disagree with them vote at all.
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Just like gerrymandering is a "one-sided" debate I'm sure. I wish I could think the same way.
 
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Ziggurat said:
What, precisely, does this have to do with supposed disenfranchisement due to voter ID laws that nobody seems to be able to find examples of?
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And what precisely is the justification for new voter ID laws to stop a problem that is virtually non-existent? Might not that legislative effort be spent better elsewhere on problems that, you know, actually exist to a meaningful degree?
 
Grizzly Bear said:
No, I don't expect everyone to have my same circumstances, and I know where you're probably coming from, but you're limiting your thinking scope as if there aren't options available to ease the burden substantially in the event of such laws becoming mainstream. That's far from the case.
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Voter fraud is a non-problem.

Developing workarounds for the actual problems that the unnecessary solutions to non-problems create is an exercise in idiocy.

I would have to disagree that it's an unnecessary law to have. Our voting integrity needs to be sound and that's not an issue to me of how rare fraud is. It's an issue of keeping fraud out of our elections proactively.
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Our republic is over two hundred years old.

Voter fraud is virtually nonexistent.

Your criteria for what we must be "proactive" about is... strange.
 
johnny karate said:
Voter fraud is a non-problem.

Developing workarounds for the actual problems that the unnecessary solutions to non-problems create is an exercise in idiocy.



Our republic is over two hundred years old.

Voter fraud is virtually nonexistent.

Your criteria for what we must be "proactive" about is... strange.
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my guess however, is it's scope is limited based on politics.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
Just like gerrymandering is a "one-sided" debate I'm sure. I wish I could think the same way.
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You can. All you have to do is look at the evidence. Nationwide, Republicans are trying to limit people's ability to vote. I'm sure there are some Democratic party controlled states where there is some gerrymandering, but compared to the Republican gerrymandering, it's as rare as a lion's steak dinner. In fact, the liberal bastion of evil liberals, California, has a third-party that determined how districts are drawn.
 
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Neally said:
Most of the rest of the world including our neighbors in Canada and Mexico have voter ID laws as a proactive reasonable measure to help insure honest elections. Somehow, just somehow, they manage without people whining about disenfranchisement.
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It's worth pointing out that, while I generally support having a valid form of identification available and checked when it comes to voting, I completely oppose laws that were proposed and supported in attempts to try to lower the voter turnout among groups that generally don't vote for your own party.

With that said, it's also worth pointing out that the issue that these voter ID laws are made to address seems to be as good as non-existent, by the actual evidence presented, so I fail to see much pressing reason for voter ID laws. Voter fraud could indeed potentially be something of a problem, however, specifically focusing resources on what, by the evidence, is a form of voter fraud that's as good as non-existent is a poor way to deal with any claimed problems.
 
thaiboxerken said:
You can. All you have to do is look at the evidence. Nationwide, Republicans are trying to limit people's ability to vote. I'm sure there are some Democratic party controlled states where there is some gerrymandering, but compared to the Republican gerrymandering, it's as rare as a lion's steak dinner. In fact, the liberal bastion of evil liberals, California, has a third-party that determined how districts are drawn.
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If I recall correctly, the last time I saw the numbers, there's only one state that's gerrymandered in favor of Democrats, while there are a fair few gerrymandered in favor of Republicans.
 
Ziggurat said:
Felons can't vote in many places. Boo hoo. What, precisely, does this have to do with supposed disenfranchisement due to voter ID laws that nobody seems to be able to find examples of?
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I thought the law had been blocked?
 
Grizzly Bear said:
I would have to disagree that it's an unnecessary law to have. Our voting integrity needs to be sound and that's not an issue to me of how rare fraud is. It's an issue of keeping fraud out of our elections proactively.
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So there is no fraud now, but there might be, sometime, somewhere, in the future. So we need to do this proactively.

I'm concerned that terrorists have secretly invaded the country, have forged citizenship documents, and are pretending to be farmers while secretly building fertilizer bombs and voting in our elections. I can't prove this is a problem right now but we need to proactively protect our voting integrity.

To ensure that farmers aren't really terrorists in disguise I think a new voting law should be passed such that all farmers have to undergo a special background check, as well as an inspection of their farm within one month of an election before they are eligible to vote.

Sure it might make it really annoying or difficult for many farmers to vote, but if it stops one fraudulent voter it's worth it.

Or heck, lets just sidestep all these issues and have voting chips implanted in our brains. To protect our voting integrity proactively.

The "why shouldn't we, to proactively protect our voting integrity" doesn't fly as a good argument.
 
it's not a secret the only reason they support voter ID laws is to disenfranchise voters. there are plenty of Republican politicians that have been caught on tape saying so.
 
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Hey, can I sign up for Obamacare without ID'ing myself?

Will an insurance company sell me two millions dollars worth of medical care liability without knowing who they are dealing with?

But that is OK with dems, ID'ing for votes is not?
 
casebro said:
Hey, can I sign up for Obamacare without ID'ing myself?

Will an insurance company sell me two millions dollars worth of medical care liability without knowing who they are dealing with?

But that is OK with dems, ID'ing for votes is not?
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I just signed up for health insurance (there's no policy called "Obamacare") and I didn't have to provide ID. I did it over the phone. Do you support voting by phone, since the two are the same in your mind?
 
Unabogie said:
I just signed up for health insurance (there's no policy called "Obamacare") and I didn't have to provide ID. I did it over the phone. Do you support voting by phone, since the two are the same in your mind?
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This "Obamacare" for which you need an ID to sign up must only be available in the same "California" where you need an ID to vote.
 
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