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Zinke: "You haven't served!"

Lambchops said:
"I was a SEAL, so therefore I know all about the climate!". That's pretty much his entire argument, right? What a maroon.

It just amazes me that you USAians still have this warrior-cult going.

The rest of the world dropped this BS like 1000 years ago. At least.
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Norway could have used some "warriors" back in 1940.
And quite a few European countries still have a "warrior cult " thing going.
Zinke is an idiot,but so it blind hatred of all things Military.
 
crescent said:
I think that is unlikely. Zinke bases his image very very strongly on his service as a SEAL. He has a personal flag flown the roof on Interior Main when he is in the building, which I gather is something that military base commanders also do, but which, prior to Zinke, was not done with civilian departments.

Obviously, I am not psychic, I can't really know what was going on in his head. But based on his record, I think is is very likely he was referring to military service.

ETA: The flag thing: President Trump's Interior Secretary Makes His Staff Raise a Special Flag When He's Around
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It is an old tradition for a general or admiral to fly his flag from the building or ship where he commands ( or in the navy, whenever he is on a ship) but I have never heard of a retired officer do it when he holds civilian office.
Zinke ,btw, was not parituclarly well liked in the SEAL community, considered to be a burueacrat rather then a actual combat commander.
 
BobTheCoward said:
To me, I see military service as a character flaw.
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It’s only a problem when people don’t understand the place and role of military service. Note the word service. The military serves the nation and its people. As soon as you start to turn that around and decide it’s the nation that serves the military you have a problem. When you get people like Zinke who think they are owed special privilege because they were in the military you are approaching this. Indeed when you get and expectation of special deference to the military or ex-military you approach this
 
lomiller said:
It’s only a problem when people don’t understand the place and role of military service. Note the word service. The military serves the nation and its people. As soon as you start to turn that around and decide it’s the nation that serves the military you have a problem. When you get people like Zinke who think they are owed special privilege because they were in the military you are approaching this. Indeed when you get and expectation of special deference to the military or ex-military you approach this
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This is the problem I foresee with post-9/11 patriotic fervor. I'm happy to get a discount at Home Depot, but I don't want it to be an expectation.

I always had wondered that with police and the discounts restaurants often give. When it becomes an expectation, what happens to those that don't bequeath the honor, as is their right in a free country? This of course comes right back around to football players and the flag.
 
dudalb said:
It is an old tradition for a general or admiral to fly his flag from the building or ship where he commands ( or in the navy, whenever he is on a ship) but I have never heard of a retired officer do it when he holds civilian office.
....
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It reflects his fantasy that he continues to see himself as a military officer -- with all the authority and deference that accompanies that role -- rather than as a civilian bureaucrat hired to do a job for the American people.
 
lomiller said:
It’s only a problem when people don’t understand the place and role of military service. Note the word service. The military serves the nation and its people. As soon as you start to turn that around and decide it’s the nation that serves the military you have a problem. When you get people like Zinke who think they are owed special privilege because they were in the military you are approaching this. Indeed when you get and expectation of special deference to the military or ex-military you approach this
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The underlying problem is that so few Americans have any real contact with the military. From 1941 until 1973, the U.S. had a military draft. Not everybody served, but everybody had relatives, friends, classmates and neighbors who served. Everyone had an immediate interest in military policy and affairs. And all those people who actually served in the military, particularly the draftees, came home with inside knowledge of how the military worked, and real skepticism about some of its activities.

Today, one commentator said you would have to knock on 150 random doors to find a house where somebody was in the military. For most of us, the military is a foreign country. We say "Thank you for your service," and under our breath we say "Glad it's not me!" People who join the military are a self-selected group, mostly aspiring working-class, that stands apart from most Americans.

It's inconceivable that we would have gone to war in Iraq and Afghanistan or would be as overextended as we are around the world if there was a military draft today, and rich kids were getting pulled out of Ivy League colleges and shipped to the Sandbox -- and coming home in boxes.
 
Bob001 said:
The underlying problem is that so few Americans have any real contact with the military. From 1941 until 1973, the U.S. had a military draft. Not everybody served, but everybody had relatives, friends, classmates and neighbors who served. Everyone had an immediate interest in military policy and affairs. And all those people who actually served in the military, particularly the draftees, came home with inside knowledge of how the military worked, and real skepticism about some of its activities.

Today, one commentator said you would have to knock on 150 random doors to find a house where somebody was in the military. For most of us, the military is a foreign country. We say "Thank you for your service," and under our breath we say "Glad it's not me!" People who join the military are a self-selected group, mostly aspiring working-class, that stands apart from most Americans.

It's inconceivable that we would have gone to war in Iraq and Afghanistan or would be as overextended as we are around the world if there was a military draft today, and rich kids were getting pulled out of Ivy League colleges and shipped to the Sandbox -- and coming home in boxes.
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You think here would not have been huge support for going to Afghansitan after 9/11, givne that Al Qaida was based there?
 
Bob001 said:
It's inconceivable that we would have gone to war in Iraq and Afghanistan or would be as overextended as we are around the world if there was a military draft today, and rich kids were getting pulled out of Ivy League colleges and shipped to the Sandbox -- and coming home in boxes.
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We ancient ones said the same thing about the draft and Vietnam. There's even a famous song about this.
 
dudalb said:
You think here would not have been huge support for going to Afghansitan after 9/11, givne that Al Qaida was based there?
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There would have been universal support for massive military action -- bigger than we actually undertook -- to blow up Tora Bora and crush the Taliban. That might have taken a month. Our mistake was sticking around for -- what, 16 years now? -- to "build democracy," and we're no closer now than then.
 
Norman Alexander said:
We ancient ones said the same thing about the draft and Vietnam. There's even a famous song about this.
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Well, actually, the biggest, loudest protests against the war started after draft numbers increased and deferments started getting canceled. One of Nixon's first actions was to start cutting the number of troops in Vietnam. (But he left plenty to keep getting killed, but that's a different story.)


Maybe Country Joe & the Fish "I Feel Like I'm Fixin' to Die Rag?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W7-ngmO_p8
 
Craig4 said:
Well obviously you would. Your immoral, base, vile philosophy can't envision anything larger than yourself. There are some people from whom such an assessment is a compliment.
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I know the kind of people in the military. You shouldn't associate with them.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Between my statement and yours, that is two knocks against me for reasons not to associate with me.
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I come from a military family. I've had many military friends. Your comment was as offensive as it was ignorant.

ETA: and no, membership in a group does not give you the right to condemn everyone in it.
 
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TragicMonkey said:
I come from a military family. I've had many military friends. Your comment was as offensive as it was ignorant.

ETA: and no, membership in a group does not give you the right to condemn everyone in it.
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Everyone has a right to condemn everyone in a group regardless of membership.

ETA: but I'm thinking you missed the humor in my post. It is a play on the groucho Marx phrase I wouldn't want to belong to a group that would have me as a member.
 
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Bob001 said:
There would have been universal support for massive military action -- bigger than we actually undertook -- to blow up Tora Bora and crush the Taliban. That might have taken a month. Our mistake was sticking around for -- what, 16 years now? -- to "build democracy," and we're no closer now than then.
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ANd right after we blew up Tora Bora, the Taliaban and al Qaida would have moved right back in.
I agree that trying to build democracy in Afghanistans is a fool's errand, but I support the presence of US troops for one reason:It keeps Islmaic Extremists from getting back in.
The struggle with Radical Islam is a long term stuggle, much like the Cold War.
One thing I blame the Bush Administration for is not making this clear to the American people and promising a quick victory.
 
TragicMonkey said:
I know the kind of people who make statements like this. Nobody should associate with them.
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As someone who served in the US Army I can safely say the most people in the US Military would not like to associate with Bob The Coward.
What I dislike about him is he is trying to make a vice...cowardice..somehow a virtue. That is sick.
 
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