Zero Tolerance Makes Zero Sense

[Tony]

Let's see. Is that a "two wrongs make a right" argument, or a false analogy?

Neither. It's the "if parents are able to violate the kid's rights, they should be able to defend the kid's rights" argument.

 

[Mycroft]

Neither. It's the "if parents are able to violate the kid's rights, they should be able to defend the kid's rights" argument.

I think the law already allows you to serve alcohol to your kids. It's other people's kids the law has a problem with.

 

[CBL4]

The only unknown in all this is what effect the condoning of underage drinking at home has. Does it make the kid more responsible or does it make him more liable to drink out of sight of his parents? That's a hell of an unknown risk to take with your kids' lives and with the lives of the society around them.

If you want to learn about that, look at European countries. More drinking with kids at home, lower drinking ages and less drunk driving.

CBL

 

[Luke T.]

If you want to learn about that, look at European countries. More drinking with kids at home, lower drinking ages and less drunk driving.

CBL

I will requote a previous link:

While most European countries issue driver's licenses at age 18, the difficulty of passing the test, high insurance costs and wide use of trains and buses all mean that young people generally begin to drive much later than in the United States.

"They start drinking at 16, but they cannot drive until they are 18," said Florence Berteletti Kemp, a communications officer in Brussels, Belgium, for Eurocare, a private group that campaigns to reduce Europeans' alcohol consumption. "I think in the U.S., there is an expectation to have your own car. It's not that young people in Europe are more careful. It's that they haven't got the car."

 

[BPSCG]

If you want to learn about that, look at European countries. More drinking with kids at home, lower drinking ages and less drunk driving.

And much stiffer penalties for drunk driving.

You know, I'll bet if you let the kids start having a glass of wine at dinner when they're 13 or 14, along with the grownups, by the time they're 15 or 16, the "forbidden fruit" aspect of getting drunk with their friends will have lost much of its luster. Especially if you start teaching them how to taste the difference between wine aged in oak vs. wine aged in steel, how to detect the different tastes and noses, etc. Do that, and I'll bet when they're 16 and their friends ask them if they want to go out to the high school football bleachers and get drunk, they'll wonder why anyone would want to do that.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

I will requote a previous link:

Which contains one person's opinion.

And that person is hardly unbiased, as he is representing a group that wants to reduce alcohol consumption.

While I might accept there could be a degree of truth in what he says (in particular about public transport), it is hardly evidence.

In my experience most people in the UK learn to drive as soon as the are allowed (17) so it is not necessarily the case that people can't drink and drive. I think much more significant are the penalties for drink driving (loss of licence for a specified period) and the fact that it is "unacceptable".

 

[Tony]

Which contains one person's opinion.

And that person is hardly unbiased, as he is representing a group that wants to reduce alcohol consumption.

While I might accept there could be a degree of truth in what he says (in particular about public transport), it is hardly evidence.

In my experience most people in the UK learn to drive as soon as the are allowed (17) so it is not necessarily the case that people can't drink and drive. I think much more significant are the penalties for drink driving (loss of licence for a specified period) and the fact that it is "unacceptable".

And I'd say it also has to do with the facts that your cities aren't as spread out and that there are more transportation alternatives.

Where I live, having a car is virtually a necessity of life.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

And I'd say it also has to do with the facts that your cities aren't as spread out and that there are more transportation alternatives.

Where I live, having a car is virtually a necessity of life.

Which is why I specifically noted that I would agree there was a degree of truth in what he said about public transport.

However even where public transport is not a viable option (which is the case for large parts of the UK), the norm would be for one person to drive and not drink.

 

[Tony]

Which is why I specifically noted that I would agree there was a degree of truth in what he said about public transport.

However even where public transport is not a viable option (which is the case for large parts of the UK), the norm would be for one person to drive and not drink.

I'm not disagreeing with you.

I think, instead of passing anti-personal freedom laws, we in America should emulate your urban planning and public transportation techniques. It seems the most logical thing to do really.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

I'm not disagreeing with you.

I think, instead of passing anti-personal freedom laws, we in America should emulate your urban planning and public transportation techniques. It seems the most logical thing to do really.

Well, if you want to do that, don't base them on the UK's public transport whatever you do!

What do you mean by "anti-personal freedom laws"? The law that says you can't drink below a certain age or the law that says you can't drink and drive? Or both?

 

[Tony]

What do you mean by "anti-personal freedom laws"? The law that says you can't drink below a certain age or the law that says you can't drink and drive?

The laws that say you can't drink below a certain age. Especially when those restricted from drinking are adults.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

The laws that say you can't drink below a certain age. Especially when those restricted from drinking are adults.

Then we don't appear to disagree.

That's not going to make a very interesting thread.

 

[bigred]

Puritanism went out in the 1800's, but it doesn't seem like America understands that right now. Teenagers are becoming adults, but our culture doesn't seem to want to treat them that way. It seems like we're more afraid of them than anything else. Instead of allowing them to grow up with love and support, we treat them like babies and force them to reject us.

I promised myself I wouldn't forget what it was like to be a teenager. Clearly you have. You are so far out of touch with the situations kids face these days, it would be joke if it weren't so tragic.

What's tragic is your reading comprehension. That is easily one of the most ridiculous things/conclusions I've ever read here. You missed the point entirely.

I suspect you remember what it's like to be a teenager because you're still there (one way or another). sheesh

Nobody is suggesting "sticking your head in the sand" about underage drinking. But going way to the other extreme and encouraging it (you may not think this is so, but that it the net effect, believe me) is hardly any better...in fact in some ways worse.