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Zero Tolerance for Zero Tolerance

TimCallahan

Philosopher
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
6,293
I subscribe to Randy Cassingham's blog, "This is True." Every week he posts at least one news item about school authorities grotesquely misusing zero tolerance policies. These range from high school girls, who are honor students being either suspended or expelled for having a bottle of Midol in their purses to six year olds being expelled or event arrested for having a plastic knife with the lunches. Here are some specific examples of draconian zero tolerance punishments.

It would seem that many of these cases are screaming "Lawsuit." Does anyone have any ideas on ways to put an end to such abuses?
 
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For starters, get rid of school boards. Next, mandatory retirement for school officials at age 29. Seriously. There are too many people running schools who are just too lazy or out of touch to deal with analyzing situations to determine whether there is anything worth bothering about. A zero tolerance policy means that you don't have to do anything or make any judgement calls because the policy does it for you. "Our hands are tied!" "There is nothing we can do!" "We have a zero tolerance policy!" It removes them from any of the responsibility of decision-making. Honestly, elementary school children have more sense and maturity than most of the dweebs running the schools.
 
Yes, but their parents don't. (Many of them are also over 29).
I imagine it's the attitudes (or perceived attitudes) of parents that worry school boards in the main.
 
Expel all the students and make them apply for reinstatement. Let them make a case for why they should receive a free public education rather than force the schools to make a case why they shouldn't. This way the unteachable, the disruptive, and the human garbage can be kept out, which will improve the education of the rest enormously, as well as cut down on administrative work.
 
Yes, but their parents don't. (Many of them are also over 29).
I imagine it's the attitudes (or perceived attitudes) of parents that worry school boards in the main.

And this results in cases where one or two squeaky wheels (usually a religious nut with money or self-righteous candy ass with money) screw things up for the overwhelming majority.
 
I've never liked zero-tolerance. It says, "This subject is so important that the one thing we must not do is think about it."
 
I've never liked zero-tolerance. It says, "This subject is so important that the one thing we must not do is think about it."

Sounds like "Just Say No" to me!
 
Expel all the students and make them apply for reinstatement. Let them make a case for why they should receive a free public education rather than force the schools to make a case why they shouldn't. This way the unteachable, the disruptive, and the human garbage can be kept out, which will improve the education of the rest enormously, as well as cut down on administrative work.

And now the reality: This would result in children of members of the good old boy network getting a free education, and the kids guilty of the crime of being brown never seeing the inside of a classroom.
 
And now the reality: This would result in children of members of the good old boy network getting a free education, and the kids guilty of the crime of being brown never seeing the inside of a classroom.

Not if the teachers who knew the kids were making the decision.
 
Expel all the students and make them apply for reinstatement. Let them make a case for why they should receive a free public education rather than force the schools to make a case why they shouldn't. This way the unteachable, the disruptive, and the human garbage can be kept out, which will improve the education of the rest enormously, as well as cut down on administrative work.

I dont know . . . my instinct tells me that our society is made better by not giving up on kids, doing our best by them, and showing them we care even if they are not up to snuff.
 
I dont know . . . my instinct tells me that our society is made better by not giving up on kids, doing our best by them, and showing them we care even if they are not up to snuff.

I'm not saying give up on them, just send the bad ones to a separate school that can be tailored to their educational needs such as having the staff carry tasers, and dumbing down the curriculum so they have a chance to succeed without being promoted for social reasons.
 
For starters, get rid of school boards. Next, mandatory retirement for school officials at age 29. Seriously. There are too many people running schools who are just too lazy or out of touch to deal with analyzing situations to determine whether there is anything worth bothering about. A zero tolerance policy means that you don't have to do anything or make any judgement calls because the policy does it for you. "Our hands are tied!" "There is nothing we can do!" "We have a zero tolerance policy!" It removes them from any of the responsibility of decision-making. Honestly, elementary school children have more sense and maturity than most of the dweebs running the schools.

Um, wow. I work in a district with a zero tolerance policy. It is not enforced in grade schools, unless there is a battery involved. In middle school and high school it is different for any weapon. Now we don't have the thing with the aspirin and other OTC drugs.

I would say start with the superintendent and the school board. Principals have considerable lee way in what the pass up the line and how they deal with it. There is still quite a bit of interpretation of policy that occurs, especially when it comes to student to student violence. Both of the grade schools and the middle school I worked at had a fair amount of student violence.

At the grade school level a fist being thrown may or may not result in suspension, much less an expulsion hearing. Usually the students involved have to show a repeated pattern of battery. In the middle and high schools the scenario matters a lot, who threw the first punch and who stopped when staff arrived. I saw students get one day suspensions when they instigated the fight and the other get ten days because when staff arrived they knocked the other student down and kicked them in the face.

The only crash landing in a knife or gun at middle school or high school. And not a plastic knife either. Now shivs will also get you a crash landing.

Staff involvement is another issue, I was assaulted by a student how made a very poor choice and deliberately caused me harm. My principal asked me if I was going to push for expulsion, i said no. It was a stupid choice on the students part, I did have a huge bruise. Now other staff made poor choices and then pressed for expulsion, which by policy is a factor. But putting your self in harms way is stupid and then punishing the student for it is also stupid.

Now part of what makes it work in our district is school resource officers and station adjustment. If what the student did is serious, they are charged with a crime, if they are on probation or delayed sentencing that have to meet with the SRO at the station for weekly meetings. That straightens some of them up.
 
I'm not saying give up on them, just send the bad ones to a separate school that can be tailored to their educational needs such as having the staff carry tasers, and dumbing down the curriculum so they have a chance to succeed without being promoted for social reasons.

How do you know they are 'bad', often they can be the one that just got caught.
 
I'm not saying give up on them, just send the bad ones to a separate school that can be tailored to their educational needs such as having the staff carry tasers, and dumbing down the curriculum so they have a chance to succeed without being promoted for social reasons.
Am I detecting that your school days were not the happiest of your life?
 
Am I detecting that your school days were not the happiest of your life?

I moved around a lot, so I got to sample the public schools in six different states. I observed a lot of wasted time and energy being spent on students who were clearly garbage that would never amount to anything. Garbage that actively resisted being there, and fought back, and disrupted the education of the rest. When you have vermin in your house, and it scampers out the back door, you don't keep dragging it back inside. You let it go, that it might seek its destiny in the sewers and gutters.
 
I subscribe to Randy Cassingham's blog, "This is True." Every week he posts at least one news item about school authorities grotesquely misusing zero tolerance policies. These range from high school girls, who are honor students being either suspended or expelled for having a bottle of Midol in their purses to six year olds being expelled or event arrested for having a plastic knife with the lunches. Here are some specific examples of draconian zero tolerance punishments.

It would seem that many of these cases are screaming "Lawsuit." Does anyone have any ideas on ways to put an end to such abuses?


Your link is 14 years old.
 
I moved around a lot, so I got to sample the public schools in six different states. I observed a lot of wasted time and energy being spent on students who were clearly garbage that would never amount to anything. Garbage that actively resisted being there, and fought back, and disrupted the education of the rest. When you have vermin in your house, and it scampers out the back door, you don't keep dragging it back inside. You let it go, that it might seek its destiny in the sewers and gutters.

I think the method for getting rid of vermin in homes is somewhat different and wouldn't work on disruptive students for a plethora of reasons both practical and moral.

Otherwise I agree with you. No child left behind doesn't work and exposes children to bullying, disruptive behaviors, and other such things that they don't need to be. And it doesn't help the disruptive children in the least either.
 

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