Yummy Like Glass

[Soapy Sam]

Still absorbing IR and UV though?

 

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Still absorbing IR and UV though?

Some and I don't know.

Could the fruit's seeds be so small that they are invisible save for under a optical microscope?

 

[Soapy Sam]

Transparency wouldn't work for the plant of course, unless it was adapted to extract energy from a non visible EM segment- UV maybe. The actual fruit derives its material from the parent plant, so the photosynthetic aspect is not involved.

I've seen seed pods that turn nearly transparent on drying out (on the plant). What's that ornamental plant called with the disc shaped, papery seed pods? "Honesty"? Something like that.

I could imagine a fruit body exuding an invisible thread or glue that sticks to a bird or insect, then dries out, letting the seed fall off.

I suppose most of a fruit is water. Some grapes are fairly translucent.

I could imagine GM engineers producing a completely transparent fruit. Not sure I can see a likely advantage in terms of natural selection. I wonder what terrestrial fruit would look like under a different star? Might a green grape be near transparent in the light of Procyon?

Banana seeds are pretty minute.
No reason seeds can't be microscopic.

 

[cesium]

While it is deffinantly possible to put fruit flavor into a transparent object, fruit's only purpose is not to taste good. Fruits are generaly designed so animals eat them and the seeds are carried away, or to provide food for the seeds when the fruit falls to the ground and rots. While the flavor may be transparent, the cellulose and glucose and sucrose and all of the other elements may not be as transparent. Also, while many things are transparent as a liquid or as a solution, they become less clear when they crystalize.

I am not sure if fruit contains cells, but if it does then the components of the cells would definantly be transparent.


If a clear fruit were possible, I cant see how it would be advantageous to a plant. Fruits are usualy bright colors so animals notice them, and clear would hardly be noticable. While mutations do happen, I cant see how a plant would evolve to attain this trait, as a trait would need to be so advantageous that the plant is more capable then other plants in the area. If the plant did mutate, it would probably produce few offspring.

Finaly, since fruits contain seeds, would the seeds be clear?

Looking at some of the other posts, I guess that fruits are transparent to many waveleingths other then light.

 

[Johnny Pneumatic]

I am not sure if fruit contains cells, but if it does then the components of the cells would definantly be transparent.

That's pretty much if not totally what fruit is, a hunk of cells. The fruit's pigments are inside vacuoles in the cells of the fruit's skin.

 

[SezMe]

How would it be an advantage? Fruit "wants" to be eaten. The seeds are so "designed" as to pass through most GI tracts intact. What more perfect seed-spreading mechanism could nature come up with?

-TT

Take my example where an animal is attracted to the fruit by odor, not visually. Further, assume the plants "wants" this animal to eat the fruit because that maximizes its probability of propagation.

Now imagine that another animal is attracted to this same fruit through visual means only and the plant does not "want" this animal to eat its fruit because it does not poop right.

Under this scenario, it would seem that invisibility would be advantageous.

I acknowledge it is a stretch but there are wieder ecological niches in our very real world.

 

[Dr. Imago]

I acknowledge it is a stretch but there are wieder ecological niches in our very real world.

Given that we are well into the theoretical world of transluscent fruit, I'll grant you that license.

-TT

 

[SezMe]

Given that we are well into the theoretical world of transluscent fruit, I'll grant you that license.

-TT

Thanks...and I hope that license extends to my speelign errors.

 

[Art Vandelay]

The biggest problem, I think, would be the skin. In fact, peeled grapes are pretty much transparent. We can make articifical clear sweet objects entirely out of biological substance, so I don't see any reason to think a plant can't. With the right index of refraction gradient, the seeds could probably be made "invisible" by simply not allowing any light to hit them.

 

[FreakBoy]

A clear GE fruit would be quite novel wouldn't it?

My vote goes for artificially flavored natural fruit. I'm always dissapointed at the lack of flavor strawberries have. When I eat a strawberry i want it to kick me off my chair with flavor.

Maybe I'll need a much bigger and aggressive strawberry.

 

[Goshawk]

Not bananas.


http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0601.htm#seed

Certain epiphytic orchids of the tropical rain forest produce the world's smallest seeds, up to 35 million per ounce. One seed weighs about one 35 millionths of an ounce (1/35,000,000) or 0.81 micrograms. Some seeds are only about 1/300th of an inch long (85 micrometers). [The resolving power for an unaided human eye with 20-20 vision is just under 0.1 mm.] Orchid seeds are dispersed into the air like minute dust particles or single-celled spores, eventually coming to rest in the upper canopy of rain forest trees.

 

[rppa]

Ok, this is kind of a weird question but is transparent fruit possible? I know of none but this doesn't mean it's impossible. Jellyfish are quite clear and are alive.

Heck, I don't even believe jellyfish are possible!

Every time I see them I stare and ask myself, "How can something be alive and be that transparent?" It just doesn't seem possible that there can be any functional organs inside there. Can one of you biologists explain jellyfish to me?

 

[CBL4]

If the chemistry is possible, I think the evolutionary aspects are feasible.

Since fruits are designed to be eaten by animals, all it takes is a reason for one animal to be attracted by somewhat clear fruits. This animal could be the plants prefered (evolutionary speaking) spreader of seeds. The plant and animal could co-evolve a symbiotic relationship of more and more transparent fruits and more and more desire for transparent fruits.

As for reason for the animal's attraction perhaps transparent fruit is somewhat reflective. Perhaps it could sort of focus sunlight to make it easier to find the fruit.

CBL

 

[Beanbag]

Jello is basically transparent, except for the coloring agents they add to make it visually appealing. Regular gellatin (sp?) has a slightly amber cast, but is transparent. I wonder if better processing could remove the last traces of color and leave you with a water-clear gel?

Gummy bears are transparent if you cut a section out of them with a sharp knife. What makes them translucent is the surface imperfections and the powdered sugar (or whatever it is) that they dust them with to keep them from sticking together. Transparency depends a lot on the surface of the object. The only difference between window glass and ground glass is that one has a surface that's been modified with some abrasive compound. So, your transparent fruit would need a hi-polish surface or skin, which wouldn't be too unlikely, considering how the skin of an apple looks.

A transparent fruit wouldn't be invisible, just like a clear glass object isn't invisible. You can see it by how light interacts with the surfaces. To make it closer to invisible, it would need to be the same refractive index of whatever liquid or gas it was immersed in. National Geographic had an article on gemstones where it showed a real diamond and a YaG simulated stone side by side. In air, they looked the same, but when immersed in mineral oil, the YaG basically went flat and transparent (though still detectable) while the diamond still glittered. And even assuming that the fruit matched the atmosphere's refractive index, you could still find it visually by the same way you can find a large glass wall in front of you: by the dust, dirt, and surface contaminants sticking to it.

Or by hitting your nose against it while walking.

Are we talking a gaseous atmosphere, or a liquid environment? Once again, National Geographic had an article on transparent ocean creatures (like jellyfish) that were hard to see and could only be found by the junk sticking to them. To photograph them, the divers used flash units set at an oblique angle to light up the diffusing structures in the organisms.

Why bother with a solid fruit? How about a gaseous fruit, like a balloon filled with dust-like seeds or spores? The wind could carry such a fruit a long way, which would then pop and disperse the spores. Or perhaps the inflating gas could have an appealing odor (sweet, or possibly like rotting meat to attract carrion eaters) that would attract some vector, which would burst the fruit and get dusted with spores? Or maybe the inflating gas could be lighter than air, and the fruit could drift off in the air until it reached the altitude where the membrane would rupture from expansion? Think of the rain of decending ruptured skins during the fall season, like countless cast-off condoms drifting down on the breeze.

Ummmmm. Then again, don't think of that. Amazing where a train of thought will go before it derails.

Regards;
Beanbag

 

[Goshawk]

Well, you can have transparent fruit any time you're willing to postulate a blind fruit-eater. Fruit is colorful to enable animals using normal vision to see it and eat it; it's to contrast with the green leaves that normally surround it.

If the animal that's going to eat the fruit isn't using vision to locate it, then it doesn't matter what color the fruit is.

There is one fruit that I can think of that's brown to green, and that therefore doesn't contrast strongly with green leaves: the durian. And durian fruit notoriously stinketh.

Fruit is the packaging for the plant's seed-dispersal technique, and the plant needs to attract consumers' attention some way. If it's not color, then it's scent.

So your hypothetical transparent fruit would have to stink even worse than durian fruit.

 

[MESchlum]

On the clear to transluscent front, you have white red currants, an uncommon variant on red currants. They are (as the name I use implies) white, and slightly transluscent. They are also a lot sweeter than normal red currants, and less common.

 

[c4ts]

This reminds me of the time I tried to invent a hypothetical food that would make your poo glow in the dark.

 

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Glowing plants(like the GE one I've seen in my Biology book) would be quite neat. Brightly glowing grass, tree leaves, fruit, bamboo(also a grass), fungi etc. would be really cool. Months back I postulated about brightly glowing bacteria that would live in hot water, and plain water could work to I guess. Thanks for reminding me c4ts. I'll have to put them in my archive of ideas in the computer.

 

[Soapy Sam]

How long before the lines on sports fields are dayglow orange GM grass? Oh, the advertising potential...

 

[Rolfe]

How long before the lines on sports fields are dayglow orange GM grass? Oh, the advertising potential...

Are you still home? It's way past pumpkin time you know. How you expect to recuperate in a sleep deprived state, anyway?

Oops, I'm still up myself, must remedy situation....

Rolfe.