"You must pray every day to remain healthy"

[arthwollipot]

I find it interesting you take a calm discussion making the opposite point as support for your claim Dawkins is speaking offensively. They all make the point that no matter how you discuss the idea there are no gods, theists are going to be offended. The bottom line is if you are frank, you can offend more people than if you distort your beliefs in a sugar coated way. There may be a time and place to sugar coat a challenge to someone's beliefs. But you can't expect to communicate your position clearly if you constantly muffle what you have to say.

Yes, but at the same time we have to realise that some people view this as stridency, even though we don't. So since people are speaking only their own opinion, and there is no one single objective definition of "stridency", we can't complain when we use that word to describe Dawkins' style. After all, we use the word "stupid" to refer to their belief system, no?

 

[godless dave]

Yes, but at the same time we have to realise that some people view this as stridency, even though we don't. So since people are speaking only their own opinion, and there is no one single objective definition of "stridency", we can't complain when we use that word to describe Dawkins' style. After all, we use the word "stupid" to refer to their belief system, no?

Sure we can. "Strident" may not have a single objective definition (very few words do), but it does have a range of subjective definitions. If someone's usage of the word is far enough outside that range, we can conclude that they're using the word wrong.

The word "delusion" has a definition too, and it doesn't include stupidity. So if people think the title "The God Delusion" implies believers are stupid, that's their own fault for not knowing the meaning of the word, not Dawkins's fault for using it.

 

[MG1962]

Argent said the archbishop didn't offer any evidence to support his conclusion. You said "don't be too sure of that", implying that the archbiship had offered evidence to support his conclusion.

No because the archbishop is not offering anything new or cutting edge. The relationship of prayer as a form of meditation, which is a known stress reliever, which known to have a positive effect on physical health is very well established piece of science

Which of those facts are you disputing? The Catholic church's 1700 year history of hypocrisy, ambition, and favoritism is well documented.

No the bit you decided to edit out of your reply

Come to think of it, why would anyone (except a child molestor looking for tips) listen to anything a Catholic clergyman says about anything? That's like going to Lehman Brothers for financial advice.

 

[arthwollipot]

No because the archbishop is not offering anything new or cutting edge. The relationship of prayer as a form of meditation, which is a known stress reliever, which known to have a positive effect on physical health is very well established piece of science.

Well, kinda. The kind of prayer that has been thoroughly debunked is intercessory prayer, in which a person prays for a specific effect on something external.

As usual, where the effects are internal and subjective, (prayer/meditation/CAM) works. When asked to provide specific external objective results, it fails.

 

[MG1962]

Well, kinda. The kind of prayer that has been thoroughly debunked is intercessory prayer, in which a person prays for a specific effect on something external.

I dont believe that was the sort of prayer the Archbishop was talking about. Most forms of prayer meditation revolve around repetitive phrases, which in a sense bore the higher brain functions into submission. Thus allow the rest of the mind to get involved in dealing with the particular issue

As usual, where the effects are internal and subjective, (prayer/meditation/CAM) works. When asked to provide specific external objective results, it fails.

Again depends what we are talking about. Praying that my cat fluffy does not die...and the resultant emotional changes, can only be measured subjectively. However the reduction of stress through prayer, and the subsequent health advantages of this are easily measured and documented

 

[fls]

Again depends what we are talking about. Praying that my cat fluffy does not die...and the resultant emotional changes, can only be measured subjectively. However the reduction of stress through prayer, and the subsequent health advantages of this are easily measured and documented

Can you give some examples where you think this has been demonstrated?

Linda

 

[Rrose Selavy]

I dont believe that was the sort of prayer the Archbishop was talking about.

What made you think that?

-

 

[godless dave]

Come to think of it, why would anyone (except a child molestor looking for tips) listen to anything a Catholic clergyman says about anything? That's like going to Lehman Brothers for financial advice.

What are you disputing about that? The bishops and cardinals who helped cover up the child abuse were rewarded by the church. Cardinal Law got promoted, and Cardinal Ratzinger was elected Pope. The Catholic Church is an organization that protects and enables child molestors. That fact is indisputable.

 

[godless dave]

No because the archbishop is not offering anything new or cutting edge.

That's irrelevant to your statement. You responded to a claim that the archbishop had not offered any evidence to support his statement. Your response was "don't be too sure of that". Not "don't be too sure there's no evidence" but "don't be too sure the archbishop didn't present any evidence".