You going to vote for David Cameron?

Darat said:
UW - ID cards and ridiculous plans for expansion of detention without charge are two I can quickly rattle of.
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Both Davis and Cameron got a fair bit of support from me for fighting against the 60-day detention plan.

But as for ID cards, if we forget them being promoted under the banner of preventing terrorism (which, given our homegrown terror, seems very, very rubbish), is it really a big deal? Doesn't the rest of Europe have them?

*​

I must say I am dismayed by how right wing my party is becoming, and how distanced it is getting from legitimate nuts like Ken Livingstone, but I don't forget one experience I had with the deputy prime ministers team when they visited The Connection At St Martins, which I used to work at. They listen, they try to learn, and show respect.

The tories just pump moral codes all over you and whine about a big state.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
Both Davis and Cameron got a fair bit of support from me for fighting against the 60-day detention plan.

But as for ID cards, if we forget them being promoted under the banner of preventing terrorism (which, given our homegrown terror, seems very, very rubbish), is it really a big deal? Doesn't the rest of Europe have them?
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For me the ID card is a matter of principle with a large dash of cynical pragmatism regarding how it would be implemented.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
It is quite curious how in British politics we are so cynical we always retreat to the 'not so bad as the others, but still bloody awful' party, which is usually the lib dems. It's not exactly the most inspiring placard is it?
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It makes things just that little bit harder for political campainers. In nice sensible systems like the US you have 2 parties and your job is the make the electorate hate the other side more than they hate uk. In the UK that mostly works but has potential pitfalls.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
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As for individual liberty, what exactly do you find labour are not doing for it? While I am a supporter of a reasonably centralised state, I look around me and see labour wishing to learn from people who do the work they are funding/thinking of funding, rather than telling them how to do it. However, with the NHS, I do see a big problem with how they keep sticking their noses in.
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Well others have covered the first bit, although I will say that having a party that stands up for civil liberties in the commons is a plus (historically the lib dems have also been a good source of policies for the other parties as well.)

As for civil liberties well there's 50+ days detention without charge, ID cards, restrictions on protest, attempts to ristrict trial by jury, restrictions on free speach and so on. In fact off the top of my head I can think of only 3 peices of legislation which have increased civil liberties that haven't been forced on them 1) the freedom of information act (which they don't seem that happy about) 2) incorporating the European convention on human rights into UK law 3) civil partnerships (which is still discrimatory.) As far as I'm concerned this has been one of the most authoritarian governments in recent history.
 
Mid said:
As far as I'm concerned this has been one of the most authoritarian governments in recent history.
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Yeah, but it's for our own good as they're protecting us from....

ummm....
 
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I don't think we really have anything to worry about when chucking condoms as the PM in the middle of a commons session is very easy.
 
andyandy said:
i haven't seen too much of the rest of his party that inspires much confidence
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This is the problem, to me. It wouldn't matter if Kylie Minogue was leader, it would still the Tory party behind her. And we have to bear in mind that most of the current Tory MPs would have formed their party inclinations during the 1980s. And if you could live through the 1980s and think that the Tories were doing a good enough job to consider joining the party later on then frankly I don't want you anywhere near power.
 
richardm said:
This is the problem, to me. It wouldn't matter if Kylie Minogue was leader, it would still the Tory party behind her. And we have to bear in mind that most of the current Tory MPs would have formed their party inclinations during the 1980s. And if you could live through the 1980s and think that the Tories were doing a good enough job to consider joining the party later on then frankly I don't want you anywhere near power.
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On the other hand, those from that period who went on to join the Labour party were presumably inspired by Michael Foot!
 
Undesired Walrus said:
But as for ID cards, if we forget them being promoted under the banner of preventing terrorism (which, given our homegrown terror, seems very, very rubbish), is it really a big deal? Doesn't the rest of Europe have them?
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Is it a big deal to trust the current government with a massive, centralised database containing huge amounts of information and relying on massive IT infrastructure to run it? Based on their track record, yes. I can think of better things to spend £15bn on.

As for the rest of Europe, no they do not have ID cards anything like those proposed in the UK.
 
Jaggy Bunnet said:
On the other hand, those from that period who went on to join the Labour party were presumably inspired by Michael Foot!
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By God that's a point.

But on the other hand, you'd probably have to go a long way to hear a serving MP harking back to the good old days when he was in charge <checks google anxiously>
 
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Darat said:
There are two current issues which make it unlikely I could (at the next general election) support another Labour government, one is ID cards and the second is the further extension of powers of detention.
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I'm right with you there. I also have some major issues about faith schools and academies but it makes bugger all difference who I vote for when it comes to those issues - oh, except the Lib Dems want to scrap mandatory National Curriculum subjects so they lose.

But then, Tories and alt medicine...

This is the most torn I've ever been. Labour got in the first year I could vote in a General Election (also my first year at Uni doing Government so it was a very political year for me) and I've voted for them ever since on a 'the devil you know' basis, but I'm not actually sure the Tories could be any worse now.
 
I would never vote for that "bum-faced southern ponce with a tiny washer for a mouth"*.

*The interwebs to anyone who can identify the quote without recourse to google.
 
I stopped voting Labour at the start of the second Iraq war, and I'm not planning to return to the fold any time soon. That's from me, an ex-member who was out leafleting for them in '97.
 
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