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Yoga still banned in Alabama.

cullennz said:
Tai Chi is an actual legitimate martial art.
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-39853374
 
Darat said:
This to me is like banning the use of “Goodbye” because of its religious origins.
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I don't think it's the same thing at all. "Goodbye" has distant etymological roots as a religious reference. Yoga in its normal form is a fully-fledged present-day religious ritual. The motions and positions that are part of yoga, are there due to their religious significance, not because of any secular physical benefit that holding those poses is supposed to provide above and beyond any other random pose or stretch. Yes much (but by no means all) of the direct religious symbolism is muted, disguised, or left unexplained in order to appeal to western secular audiences, but that doesn't change the fact that the "metaphysical" underpinnings are largely where the proponents and promoters of yoga practice find its value, and the post-hoc generalization that "oh, and stretching is good for you" is largely used to paper over that. Even the most white-washed versions of yoga still invoke buzzwords like "energy", "balance", "centeredness" and the like that are references to metaphysical suppositions like Qi and chakras.

Kids already stretch in PE classes. The stretch exercises used are designed to target specific muscle groups in logical and controlled ways, and the students don't have to focus on a "mantra" or bow to their PE teacher before or afterwards because "that's just what you do".
 
Checkmite said:
I don't think it's the same thing at all. "Goodbye" has distant etymological roots as a religious reference. Yoga in its normal form is a fully-fledged present-day religious ritual. The motions and positions that are part of yoga, are there due to their religious significance, not because of any secular physical benefit that holding those poses is supposed to provide above and beyond any other random pose or stretch. Yes much (but by no means all) of the direct religious symbolism is muted, disguised, or left unexplained in order to appeal to western secular audiences, but that doesn't change the fact that the "metaphysical" underpinnings are largely where the proponents and promoters of yoga practice find its value, and the post-hoc generalization that "oh, and stretching is good for you" is largely used to paper over that. Even the most white-washed versions of yoga still invoke buzzwords like "energy", "balance", "centeredness" and the like that are references to metaphysical suppositions like Qi and chakras.

Kids already stretch in PE classes. The stretch exercises used are designed to target specific muscle groups in logical and controlled ways, and the students don't have to focus on a "mantra" or bow to their PE teacher before or afterwards because "that's just what you do".
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The only yoga sessions I've ever done were run by my old Tae Kwon Do instructor, there wasn't one word of religion or metaphysics in the entire session. Yes we bowed, but we did that at Tae Kwon Do to, and for that matter we did the same many, many years before when my school ran Judo lessons.

I do agree that the religious or metaphysical aspects should be promoted by schools, but your characterisation while it may be true for much, even most, yoga isn't true of all practitioners.
 
Actually to be fair. I don't think Tai Chi should be an alternative for PE either, but that is a personal you should at least be knackered after PE point of you.
 
Olmstead said:
I've done Yoga. The spiritual stuff was mostly flavour, but I guess that depends on the people involved. One thing I'm certain off is that it won't turn anyone Hindu.
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Really? I've known quite a few people who were "turned hindu" by practicing yoga. Maybe not to the point of joining a hindu temple, but in praying to Shiva when facing hard times, treating the Bhagavad Gita as a sacred text, etc.

One thing that might be of interest is what sort of certification they are looking for in the instructors. Because the certification that's most standard these days (Yoga Alliance) requires a certain amount of religious study ("Yoga Philosophy", studying the yoga sutras, the Bhagavad Gita, etc.) as a part large part off it.
 
Checkmite said:
I don't think it's the same thing at all. "Goodbye" has distant etymological roots as a religious reference. Yoga in its normal form is a fully-fledged present-day religious ritual. The motions and positions that are part of yoga, are there due to their religious significance, not because of any secular physical benefit that holding those poses is supposed to provide above and beyond any other random pose or stretch. Yes much (but by no means all) of the direct religious symbolism is muted, disguised, or left unexplained in order to appeal to western secular audiences, but that doesn't change the fact that the "metaphysical" underpinnings are largely where the proponents and promoters of yoga practice find its value, and the post-hoc generalization that "oh, and stretching is good for you" is largely used to paper over that. Even the most white-washed versions of yoga still invoke buzzwords like "energy", "balance", "centeredness" and the like that are references to metaphysical suppositions like Qi and chakras.

Kids already stretch in PE classes. The stretch exercises used are designed to target specific muscle groups in logical and controlled ways, and the students don't have to focus on a "mantra" or bow to their PE teacher before or afterwards because "that's just what you do".
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That’s very unlike yoga as it is generally taught over here, it’s more akin to advanced Pilates for most folk.


ETA: NHS England: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/guide-to-yoga/
 
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Checkmite said:
I don't think it's the same thing at all. "Goodbye" has distant etymological roots as a religious reference. Yoga in its normal form is a fully-fledged present-day religious ritual. The motions and positions that are part of yoga, are there due to their religious significance, not because of any secular physical benefit that holding those poses is supposed to provide above and beyond any other random pose or stretch. Yes much (but by no means all) of the direct religious symbolism is muted, disguised, or left unexplained in order to appeal to western secular audiences, but that doesn't change the fact that the "metaphysical" underpinnings are largely where the proponents and promoters of yoga practice find its value, and the post-hoc generalization that "oh, and stretching is good for you" is largely used to paper over that. Even the most white-washed versions of yoga still invoke buzzwords like "energy", "balance", "centeredness" and the like that are references to metaphysical suppositions like Qi and chakras.

Kids already stretch in PE classes. The stretch exercises used are designed to target specific muscle groups in logical and controlled ways, and the students don't have to focus on a "mantra" or bow to their PE teacher before or afterwards because "that's just what you do".
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I agree with this. Yoga is basically Eastern navel-gazing. I have a friend who sends me Depak Chopra meditation tapes and he does have a kinda sexy hypnotic voice that is very relaxing and lulling but I always listen with an element of scepticism, especially when he enjoins that one repeats mantras after him, yet I have no idea what they mean. Likewise, we went to this New Age style retreat in a beautiful setting in Kent and it was all this relaxation stuff - lying on the floor - deep breathing - imagining this that and the other - drawing cards from an Angel card pack: yep: it was getting in touch with Angels. At the end we each had to join hands we each other and go around one by one thanking this spiritual Angel with a weird name. When it came to my turn, I refused. I don't do navel-gazing. My friend kept squeezing my hand, as if to say, come on it is your turn to praise this weird Angel presence. No.
 
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My wife does yoga.

It's an incredibly hard workout that increases core strength and mobility, and there's absolutely no mysticism or Hinduism involved.
 
If they just called it 'stretching and contemplation', and did all the same stuff, would that be okay?
 
cullennz said:
Tai Chi is an actual legitimate martial art.
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This might be a USA thing, but T'ai Ch'i as a full art is extremely rare over here. My Wing Chun Sifu also ran TC classes, and explained to all that he was only teaching the long and short forms for well-being purposes, and not the art.

Yoga is the same kind of gig. Stretching and balance exercises. The peripheral stuff is for ambiance, not religious indoctrination.
 
Darat said:
This to me is like banning the use of “Goodbye” because of its religious origins.

I know lots of people who do yoga and I don’t think a single one is Hindu, I could understand that if it was taught as a religious subject rather than in PE folk could find something to object to, but as a series of exercises it seems quite removed these days from its religious origins.
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This is my view as well.

Perhaps there is some lack of specificity in the use of the term "yoga". I suspect in the Western world there are far more people who see yoga as a convenient, low impact exercise system which doesn't require any equipment aside from comfortable clothes than there are people who see it as a fundamental and essentially religious expression of Hindu faith.

Possibly even if chanting is involved. Meditation techniques are not inherently expressions of devotion to some Hindu deity even if some of the words might be the same.
 
wollery said:
My wife does yoga.

It's an incredibly hard workout that increases core strength and mobility, and there's absolutely no mysticism or Hinduism involved.
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I've done yoga myself. Some instructors were more mystical than others, but we were all adults paying for a class, and even the mystical ones weren't too pushy about it. Plus I always had the option of taking my business elsewhere if I didn't like the studio's practice.

It's a little bit different when you're considering a captive audience of children.

Personally I think the concerns are overblown. But I also don't think yoga is so important that it matters if it's prohibited in public school curricula. What Alabama is doing is very silly in my opinion, but ultimately harmless and not worth getting one's panties in a bunch over. Go do some yoga, clear your head, enjoy your weekend.

Alabama's public school curriculum will get along just fine without yoga in it.
 
Darat said:
That’s very unlike yoga as it is generally taught over here, it’s more akin to advanced Pilates for most folk.


ETA: NHS England: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/guide-to-yoga/
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This is actually a very good example of what I earlier referred to as "papering over", or white-washing. From that site:

Yoga is an ancient form of exercise that focuses on strength, flexibility and breathing to boost physical and mental wellbeing. The main components of yoga are postures (a series of movements designed to increase strength and flexibility) and breathing.
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This is, of course, wrong. The original focus of yoga is "spiritual" wellbeing, and a lot of the postures that are the main components of it (properly called mudras) were not "designed to increase strength and flexibility", they are designed to redirect and focus the flow of "prana" throughout the body's chakras.

Of course if this information is just casually omitted, theoretically people will be largely unconscious of it; and one can argue that in that case it shouldn't matter to people's perceptions of what they're doing.

But in practice, yoga doesn't eschew these connections, even if it doesn't explain them - in fact, its popularity depends on people being aware of those connections to at least some degree. Because because yoga doesn't actually have any special benefit whatsoever above and beyond truly secular stretching and exercise regimes, its primary draw comes from people's curiosity about "oriental mysticism". That's why a leg stretch is just called a leg stretch everywhere in the world you go but yoga doesn't just have "positions" or "stretches", it has asanas like the trikosana; it has "styles" with names like Sivananda. This insistence upon clinging to Sanskrit names and titles in an exercise practice that is otherwise secularized and anglicized for Western consumption is pointed, the same way that "yoga as a secularized westernized exercise regime" was a mid-20th-century development but promotional materials consistently push it as a "5,000 year old Indian tradition": these things are crucial for maintaining the interest that actually draws people to things like yoga.

And while I don't know if I would necessarily use the term "gateway drug" like those cited by Dann, they're certainly not wrong that people who "get into" yoga quite commonly end up consuming other forms of "holistic" and alternative medicines and treatments, as much of that industry intentionally and directly appeals to the same curiosity about "oriental mysticism" that attracted them to yoga.
 
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*watches CCD teaching wife do yoga in mornings, as she has for years, who has no idea what a sutra even is*

*shrugs*
 
dann said:
I don't know about Hinduism, but German skeptics talk about Yoga as an "Einstigsdroge," gateway drug, into meditation and New Ageism, and I can see that many people in the English-speaking world seem to think so, too, including some of the people who are into Yoga and, for instance, quack medicine themselves:
Yoga Was My Gateway Drug to Holistic Medicine (With Video) (DoYou)
Asana is a gateway drug and yoga will ruin your life (MatMotives, Dec. 04, 2017)
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In that case we need to ban yoga and jail anybody who practises or teaches it.

The war on drugs has probably artificially created about as many criminals as it can and if we wish to keep investing in police/lawyers/jails then we need more creative ways to do so.
 
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