Yet more NLP BS

[Toke]

I guess that whatever trick that gets you barhopping will beat staying home. But paying $500 for it will go from your beer budget. There is something wrong here.

 

[JFrankA]

This is a dangerous sentence. Exactly what psychological tricks are you talking about?

Exactly what I've been saying throughout this whole thread: confusion.


...but again, remember what I actually said: "it may aid". Then again, it most likely will aid in making you annoying.

 

[MikeSun5]

I guess that whatever trick that gets you barhopping will beat staying home. But paying $500 for it will go from your beer budget. There is something wrong here.

I didn't think of that... Why not keep your beer budget if you're only picking up drunk girls anyway?

..............

What happened to Iknoweverything? Probably hanging out with models and getting rich, huh?

 

[Lothario]

I didn't think of that... Why not keep your beer budget if you're only picking up drunk girls anyway?

..............

What happened to Iknoweverything? Probably hanging out with models and getting rich, huh?

500 bucks buy a lot of beer!

By the way, do you guys have like an endless supply of drunk girls in the States? Someone has to take pictures with all the pick-up artists around.

 

[MikeSun5]

By the way, do you guys have like an endless supply of drunk girls in the States? Someone has to take pictures with all the pick-up artists around.

Yea, the supply of hot dumb American drunk chicks will never run out. Of course, saturation varies by location, but they're not hard to find at all. My proof: Girls Gone Wild will never stop making videos.

It's the hot smart ones that are elusive (here in South Florida, anyway). They're so elusive that Bigfoot and UFOs take pictures of them.

 

[JFrankA]

500 bucks buy a lot of beer!

By the way, do you guys have like an endless supply of drunk girls in the States? Someone has to take pictures with all the pick-up artists around.

Plus, you got a camera, you tell the already drinking girls that you are from such-and-such production and you want to video them for whatever production/product you're making and bang: your success rate SOARS. It doesn't matter exactly what for, you have a camera, a crew (even a crew of one works) and you're making a video.

Remember, desire is a major part of the whole thing. They may not desire you, but they do desire the attention. (See? Another magician technique: Misdirection).

A great example of this is that recently, a hypnotist was claiming that he had come up with a new induction method that's supposed to be the fastest way to induce someone. Turns out that one of the key to this induction is to have a person with a camera follow and film you doing it.

 

[Lothario]

Yea, the supply of hot dumb American drunk chicks will never run out. Of course, saturation varies by location, but they're not hard to find at all. My proof: Girls Gone Wild will never stop making videos.

It's the hot smart ones that are elusive (here in South Florida, anyway). They're so elusive that Bigfoot and UFOs take pictures of them.

Hmm... right. I suppose that explains a lot.

I once met a really cute, nice girl from Miami in Brazil. She was with her boyfriend (who was brazilian) though . At the time, i didn't know it was such an endangered species, or I would have brought back pictures to post here on the forum .

 

[Edx]

NLP is garbage. It's simply a magic bean for self-help gurus and a misdirection tool for mentalists. I began reading about that stuff a long time ago, curious about psychology and intent on learning NLP. Most of the common techniques they claim (anchoring, swishing, etc.) aren't effective if your "target" isn't aware of what you're doing.

Those speed seduction techniques of Ross Jeffries are just silly ways of breaking the ice in bars just like all the other cornballs in the "Pickup Artist" community. Getting drunk girls into bed is a matter of finding the dumb ones, not hypnosis.

Here's Derren Brown "using" NLP for mind-control (edit: Watch for the "anchors"):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=befugtgikMg

NLP's only real practical application is entertainment.

Now hold on, those techniques works as does hypnotherapy but obviously people hype it out of all proportion to pretend it can do more than it can.

Clearly Derren Brown and other similar mentalists can indeed influence people so he's doing that somehow.

 

[Edx]

Eddie was saying that Derren doesn't believe in NLP and was pointing that out to Senex by relaying an anecdote Derren's book, showing that Derren doesn't believe in NLP.

He does though if I recall correctly from the book, its just he thinks some of the claims are hyped.

edit: ah I may see i may have misremembered according to other replies in this thread.

 

[Edx]

edit: double post

 

[remirol]

Now hold on, those techniques works as does hypnotherapy but obviously people hype it out of all proportion to pretend it can do more than it can.

Which NLP techniques, specifically, work, and to what efficacy?

(As far as hypnotherapy, i'd challenge you to source evidence that hypnotherapy 'works', as well as define 'works', but that should happen in a different thread to avoid derailing this one)

Clearly Derren Brown and other similar mentalists can indeed influence people so he's doing that somehow.

Correlating that "somehow" into "NLP", however, is the task here, and it should be supported by some form of evidence.

 

[Senex]

Now hold on, those techniques works as does hypnotherapy but obviously people hype it out of all proportion to pretend it can do more than it can.

Clearly Derren Brown and other mentalists can indeed influence people as well as you would hope hypnotherapists can influence their patients.

Unfortunately hypnotherapists can't possibly compete. We're not trying to discredit hypnotherapy (reasonably non-invasive like woo should be given a chance over more expensive methods, like Freudian therapy, why not?) but hypnotherapy (which is a placebo, like chiropractors) can't compete with mentalists. I just saw on A&E Chris Angel just get a poolfull of of people to strip all their clothes off on his suggestion, but I believe, as Chris Angel said, great lengths were gone through to assure no one was exploited

Chris Angel once passed out fliers (a piece of paper to read) on his show and all a person had to do was read it while shopping at the mall and they would drop to the ground in a hypnotic trance. Every shopper did. Of course what that piece of paper said can't be found on the internet. Chris Angel has a monoloply on papers that when read will debilitate you.

In my opinion Derren Brown is a better showman than Angel -- but I haven't seen a Brown show where women need a modesty bar over their private parts. Maybe I need to reconsider my hypnotist hero

Real therapeutic hypnotists can't do this. TV mentalists cheat.

JFrankA said:Eddie was saying that Derren doesn't believe in NLP and was pointing that out to Senex by relaying an anecdote Derren's book, showing that Derren doesn't believe in NLP.

And Senex was pointing out how easy it is to manipulate others in a similar way as your heroic Derren Brown who has in the past suggested to young and suggestive people that NLP is alive and well. Didn't I get a heretofore thoughtful poster upset by mearly mentioning the number of his posts? Isn't that a fine example of manipulation? (Even the moderators gave a warning to the wrong party).

 

[JFrankA]

Unfortunately hypnotherapists can't possibly compete. We're not trying to discredit hypnotherapy (reasonably non-invasive like woo should be given a chance over more expensive methods, like Freudian therapy, why not?) but hypnotherapy (which is a placebo, like chiropractors) can't compete with mentalists. I just saw on A&E Chris Angel just get a poolfull of of people to strip all their clothes off on his suggestion, but I believe, as Chris Angel said, great lengths were gone through to assure no one was exploited

Chris Angel once passed out fliers (a piece of paper to read) on his show and all a person had to do was read it while shopping at the mall and they would drop to the ground in a hypnotic trance. Every shopper did. Of course what that piece of paper said can't be found on the internet. Chris Angel has a monoloply on papers that when read will debilitate you.

In my opinion Derren Brown is a better showman than Angel -- but I haven't seen a Brown show where women need a modesty bar over their private parts. Maybe I need to reconsider my hypnotist hero

Real therapeutic hypnotists can't do this. TV mentalists cheat.

I agree with you on this.

And Senex was pointing out how easy it is to manipulate others in a similar way as your heroic Derren Brown who has in the past suggested to young and suggestive people that NLP is alive and well. Didn't I get a heretofore thoughtful poster upset by mearly mentioning the number of his posts? Isn't that a fine example of manipulation? (Even the moderators gave a warning to the wrong party).

Here, I don't quite agree with you. Here's why.

Derren Brown doesn't promote NLP. He is what you called him. A showman. Period. He doesn't promote any NLP books, and as I've said before, all the books and videos he's done are all magician subjects. Never once does he promote woo.

Now in his shows, he might seem to be doing woo, but then that's a show. Anyone actually believing his shows are real are, sorry to say, incredibly gullible and lazy. All one has to do is read about him outside the show, and it's plain that he doesn't promote NLP (or any woo) at all.

As a personal note, yes, Derren Brown is one of my heros - but he is a magician hero. His showmanship and magician skills and knowledge are something that inspire me to be a better performer.

And my take on manipulation, well, yes, manipulation exists to a point. There are degrees of such, but it's not hypnosis or NLP. Are you saying that you think that NLP is real.....?

 

[Edx]

Which NLP techniques, specifically, work, and to what efficacy?

I must admit to talking from what I remember from Derren Browns book, which apparently I have misremembered so I cant be sure the techniques Im vaguely remembering is actually NLP. After reading more posts in this thread I see I had been giving NLP too much credit

(As far as hypnotherapy, i'd challenge you to source evidence that hypnotherapy 'works', as well as define 'works', but that should happen in a different thread to avoid derailing this one)

No need for a new thread. As someone else said hypnotherapy is placebo, but I think of it like this. All other woo that "works" uses placebo, it isnt really working the body is making itself better. But hypnotherapy doesnt claim to use some woo power, it uses whatever it is that creates the placebo effect to work. It works for me because affirmations and anchors do indeed work, and 30 or so mins of concentrated positivity does help. Theres nothing inherently woo about hypnotherapy (though I know some do use woo and make hyped claims)

 

[Maia]

I must admit to talking from what I remember from Derren Browns book, which apparently I have misremembered so I cant be sure the techniques Im vaguely remembering is actually NLP. After reading more posts in this thread I see I had been giving NLP too much credit



No need for a new thread. As someone else said hypnotherapy is placebo, but I think of it like this. All other woo that "works" uses placebo, it isnt really working the body is making itself better. But hypnotherapy doesnt claim to use some woo power, it uses whatever it is that creates the placebo effect to work. It works for me because affirmations and anchors do indeed work, and 30 or so mins of concentrated positivity does help. Theres nothing inherently woo about hypnotherapy (though I know some do use woo and make hyped claims)

Okay, now I've got to jump in. I still don't understand what it is that "works" and what's being "helped." Please explain this point.

 

[Edx]

Okay, now I've got to jump in. I still don't understand what it is that "works" and what's being "helped." Please explain this point.

Hypnosis puts you into a more suggestable state, its basically just a kind of more controlled meditation. Now, once in that suggestable state you are more open to the positivity the hypnotherapist gives you. I think of it like this, the placebo effect still works its just the body/mind healing itself rather than any woo trying to claim credit. Hypnotherapy doesnt claim anything other than your own body is doing the work. Because its a placebo the more you want it to work the better it will work. As I said "anchors" and "affirmations" do work to help "rewire" the mind (for lack of a better term) so I dont see that there is any inherent problem with Hypnotherapy. If someone says its placebo, I say "of course!"

 

[Lothario]

How's the video coming along, Maia?

Hypnosis puts you into a more suggestable state, its basically just a kind of more controlled meditation. Now, once in that suggestable state you are more open to the positivity the hypnotherapist gives you. I think of it like this, the placebo effect still works its just the body/mind healing itself rather than any woo trying to claim credit. Hypnotherapy doesnt claim anything other than your own body is doing the work. Because its a placebo the more you want it to work the better it will work. As I said "anchors" and "affirmations" do work to help "rewire" the mind (for lack of a better term) so I dont see that there is any inherent problem with Hypnotherapy. If someone says its placebo, I say "of course!"

So, if it's a placebo, how do Derren Brown and Ross Jeffries use it on unsuspecting "victims"?

 

[JFrankA]

How's the video coming along, Maia?



So, if it's a placebo, how do Derren Brown and Ross Jeffries use it on unsuspecting "victims"?

'Cuz Derren Brown isn't using hypnosis. He's using surprise, confusion and suggestion.

Ross Jeffries, I suspect, is using confidence, confusion, alcohol and numbers...

 

[Maia]

How's the video coming along, Maia?



So, if it's a placebo, how do Derren Brown and Ross Jeffries use it on unsuspecting "victims"?

I have the storyboards done and started on it in AfterFX, but then real life intervened. This is my clinical week, so a few time-consuming projects had to be put on hold. I shall return to it, however.


I'm curious about the "unsuspecting victims" aspect of the entire NLP project as well. Remember the scene in John Waters' original Hairspray when Penny Pingleton's parents were trying to keep her from the forbidden interracial relationship? A psychiatrist was advancing on her with a spinning hypocoin, as I recall... I would be willing to bet it was an NLP technique.

 

[Edx]

So, if it's a placebo, how do Derren Brown and Ross Jeffries use it on unsuspecting "victims"?

What someone else said. I also remember Derren Brown saying something like very little hypnosis was actually used in his tv show.

Notice that even when Derren does his stage show and uses hypnosis he even gets the participants to perform tasks in order to see which of them are the most suggestible. You cant make anyone do anything they dont want to do with hypnosis, it isnt mind control.