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WV man standing his ground, except it wasn't his

....
It sounds like he felt it was unjust that he didn't inherit the entire original property, and the arrival of new owners on that portion challenged his insistence that he still owned it all.

The thing is that according to the story the guy never owned it all. The story says that when his father died three separate parcels passed to his mother, and when she died he was bequeathed one parcel and his sister got the other two. The sister said the her brother knew her property had been on the market since the mother died in 2008, and he knew it had been sold. This isn't a land dispute; this is pure insanity, and hope the guy gets life x2.
 
The thing is that according to the story the guy never owned it all. The story says that when his father died three separate parcels passed to his mother, and when she died he was bequeathed one parcel and his sister got the other two. The sister said the her brother knew her property had been on the market since the mother died in 2008, and he knew it had been sold. This isn't a land dispute; this is pure insanity, and hope the guy gets life x2.

I don't think it's insanity... I think it's a refusal to accept reality. He didn't inherit the whole property, and he couldn't control his sister's decision to sell. He would lose his right to access that large patch.

Cognitive dissonance.

The difference is important, and has direct bearing on sentencing.
 
But they didn't look black. You'd need a pedigree or a signed confession to put the word "black" to either of them.

They look black to me, but I think it's immaterial. There is too much evidence there was another motive.



I diagnose utter fury that these people (OK it was only one of them) had actually acquired the land he believed should be his, so he shot in that frame of mind.

That's my take at this point as well.
 
Nothing really rules out a conjunction of motives, with one of them just being the last straw.
 
Nothing really rules out a conjunction of motives, with one of them just being the last straw.

Absolutely, it's just that there isn't any specific evidence for racial motive, so I'm assigning it a very low probability until further notice. Ockham's razor.
 
That information, alone and without context, should never be sufficient to convict.


He pointed a gun bolt-action hunting rifle at two unarmed people standing on their own property a distance from his own, operated the bolt twice and pulled the trigger twice, and killed them without warning.

How is that not murder?

How 'bout now?
 
The SYG laws simply remove that duty to retreat law - though before these came along I did instruct people how to get around the DTR rules and have freely admitted it. Unfortunately some prosecutors actually even went after people who were truly forced into the situation I taught people how to manipulate the bad guy(s) into. Glad I do not need to go that far anymore. YMMV.
Please correct me if I am misunderstanding this post. It sounds to me like you taught people who were in a position from which they could safely retreat how to manipulate the situation into one in which they could legally kill someone in "self defense". If this is a correct interpretation you are guilty, at least in my mind, of accessory to murder.

IXP
 
I don't think it's insanity... I think it's a refusal to accept reality. He didn't inherit the whole property, and he couldn't control his sister's decision to sell. He would lose his right to access that large patch.

Cognitive dissonance.

The difference is important, and has direct bearing on sentencing.


If the property had been lying fallow, unsold, for five years, he may have come to the belief that this was a permanent state of affairs and it was de facto his. In denial of the reality that it would sell eventually.

Rolfe.
 
If the property had been lying fallow, unsold, for five years, he may have come to the belief that this was a permanent state of affairs and it was de facto his. In denial of the reality that it would sell eventually.

Yes. His sister said it wasn't even lying fallow - he was maintaining it. Mowing, minor repairs.
 
Right. He was treating it as his own. He was in denial that it wasn't, and that someone would almost certainly buy it sooner or later. When that time came, he snapped and blew them away.

Throw away the key.

Rolfe.
 
Right. He was treating it as his own. He was in denial that it wasn't, and that someone would almost certainly buy it sooner or later. When that time came, he snapped and blew them away.

Throw away the key.

Rolfe.

Quite right.

That buck in your picture might disagree!

IXP

Dead men things, tell no tale.
 
No, your uncle would still be in prison because the stand your ground laws require that a reasonable person would be in fear for their life. Plenty of people attempt to use stand your ground defenses and are convicted of murder because the law doesn't allow it to be used as a get out of jail free card. And that's why this man is being charged with murder. Is that so hard to understand?

What about the guy who shot suspected looters that weren't even on his property?

In my experience not one single person who is against SYG has any idea what it actually means, including Eric Holder.

eta:
See what I mean? Yet another anti-SYG person who has no idea what it is.

:rolleyes: I'm completely off base that a person only has to be "afraid" and they shoot with impunity. :rolleyes:

99.9+% of gun owners know when it's not cool to shoot, that's why stories like this make national headlines and the 140 million other gun owners who didn't shoot anyone ever don't make the news. IMHO people like Travis and KatieG are just pretending to be ignorant in order to make an anti-gun point. It's been explained to them, and far too many times for it to be the result of actual ignorance.
:rolleyes:
Travis, I understand you don't like guns and you have told us why and I understand that too, but consistently misstating how SYG laws actually work gives the implication that you actually think that is how they work. I do not think you are anywhere near lacking in intelligence sufficiently to believe that. If I am wrong and you do truly believe it as opposed to just looking for something else to support your beliefs about guns then I have overestimated your intelligence and I apologize for that but you definitely are not correct re:SYG laws.

Just in case, I will give it a last try: because in a number of states and many cities prosecutors/DAs used shooting cases where a person was in their home when an intruder came into the house - often armed to try to advance their careers (and it wasn't just shooting). After the homeowner/resident shot/knifed/coshed the intruder, the DA/prosecutor would charge the homeowner/resident with murder or manslaughter - even though it was clearly self-defense - because the h/o /res did not get out of the house instead . And other similar.

The SYG laws simply remove that duty to retreat law - though before these came along I did instruct people how to get around the DTR rules and have freely admitted it. Unfortunately some prosecutors actually even went after people who were truly forced into the situation I taught people how to manipulate the bad guy(s) into. Glad I do not need to go that far anymore. YMMV.

And this explains all those SYG laws being invoked by shooters outside of homes (or in theaters) where people are shooting people for minor altercations and then claiming SYG.
 
And this explains all those SYG laws being invoked by shooters outside of homes (or in theaters) where people are shooting people for minor altercations and then claiming SYG.

When hazard warning lights were introduced to cars in the UK a lot of people would double-park or park in excluded areas and switch on their hazard lights. When confronted (i.e. busted) they'd claim "But I had my hazard lights flashing!".

SYG misinterpretation in a nutshell. Give people half a chance to award themselves what they think is a legal 'out' and some will take it. But if a gun is involved it can get much heavier than illegal parking.
 
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Wow, just wow! 2 people assasinated long distance, without warning is a minor mistake to you!?

I think the point fuelair was trying to make was that imperfect self defense is manslaughter, not murder - which is generally correct. I just don't see the facts as reported fitting defective self-defense over what seems to be the classic definition of second degree murder - an unplanned homicide resulting from depraved mind (generally spite, hatred or evil intent).

The shooter in this instance doesn't seem to exhibit any of the features of a legitimate self-defense claim - the notion that they were thieves on his property doesn't seem reasonable in light of the knowledge that he knew his property claim wasn't recognized, there is no evidence of a reasonable threat of death or great bodily injury, the distance involved agues against any perceived threat being immediate and setting up a sniper's nest in your day room may go beyond strictly what was necessary to prevent death or great injury.

What is also absent here is any evidence that the crime had any racial motive. It sounds much more reasonable that the homeowner was unwilling to accept the property settlement which led to kind of an internal dispute and the new property owners were the victims of that kind of prior disagreement.
 
It's shocking, I know. I've been told on this forum that, as a gun owner, it's only a matter of time. Sooner or later I'm going to either accidently kill someone with them or go on a killing spree. I'm a responsible gun owner until I'm not.
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/111684eae8d5b862bc.jpg[/qimg]

A 10-pointer. Nice! :D
 

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