WTC7 - The fires failed Girder 44-79

[Tony Szamboti]

Or there is a third possibility that I know you hate to consider. That NFPA 921 does not apply because the cause of the fire is known. But, you know this.

Really? It is interesting that the North Tower collapsed at 10:28 AM and there is no photographic evidence of any fires in WTC 7 until about 12:15 PM. But maybe you didn't know that.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Even if you could ... I picture a series of aircraft hangars with tens or hundreds of thousands of massive steel members and other lumps of debris stacked and labelled, and eventually someone comes along asking for a specific piece. Then the cranes move in and spend months shifting 60% of it to some spare space so that item #19872 can be extracted only to find it wasn't correctly labelled originally.

And why all this fuss? Because they anticipated that some internet kooks several years in the future would demand "physical evidence"?

Here's some advice TS - the world doesn't (and never will) arrange its business to suit your fantasies. And if I were you I'd stop complaining, as if it did then you'd look a bigger fool than you already do.

The people who do structural forensics are probably a little better organized than you make it appear. They just weren't able to do what they normally do in the case of WTC 7 according to Dr. Jonathan Barnett. He is on tape saying this in case you aren't aware. He doesn't say why they weren't able to do it.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Slight correction, Tony. WPI did have steel from WTC 7 so some of it must have been saved. Why NIST wasn't able to obtain it from WPI or have some other pieces saved is a mystery everywhere except in this subforum.

Yes, there is some mystery to it in the sense that NIST says none was saved when explaining why they had no metallographic analysis on steel from WTC 7.

WPI only talks about one small piece of steel from WTC 7, and I would imagine it would have been no problem for NIST to get that piece. Why they didn't is also a mystery.

 

[Justin39640]

Really? It is interesting that the North Tower collapsed at 10:28 AM and there is no photographic evidence of any fires in WTC 7 until about 12:15 PM. But maybe you didn't know that.

Um, in case you didn't notice, unlike the towers, no planes hit 7 so the rapid spread of an accelerant wasn't there.

ETA:

 

[DGM]

Really? It is interesting that the North Tower collapsed at 10:28 AM and there is no photographic evidence of any fires in WTC 7 until about 12:15 PM. But maybe you didn't know that.

Wow, That is shocking

Now tell us, what time did the fire alarm go off in the building (I know it was set to test mode)? Were there any reports of fires there from, maybe, FDNY?

Tell us the whole story, Tony.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Wow, That is shocking

Now tell us, what time did the fire alarm go off in the building (I know it was set to test mode)? Were there any reports of fires there from, maybe, FDNY?

Tell us the whole story, Tony.

I am the one saying we don't have the whole story, while you are one of those who seems to fully accept the present official explanations and seem to believe we do have the whole story, so you should be telling me why there was no photographic evidence of fires in WTC 7 until at least 12:15 PM and all about the fire alarms and why they were set to test mode that morning.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Um, in case you didn't notice, unlike the towers, no planes hit 7 so the rapid spread of an accelerant wasn't there.

ETA:

So you think it took an hour and forty-seven minutes for the fires on all of the 10 floors, that were alleged to have had them started by North Tower debris, to be noticeable?

 

[Justin39640]

So you think it took an hour and forty-seven minutes for the fires on all of the 10 floors, that were alleged to have had them started by North Tower debris, to be noticeable?

Quite possibly, yes.

 

[GlennB]

The people who do structural forensics are probably a little better organized than you make it appear. They just weren't able to do what they normally do in the case of WTC 7 according to Dr. Jonathan Barnett. He is on tape saying this in case you aren't aware. He doesn't say why they weren't able to do it.

You have seen the photos of the retained steel in a hangar at JFK. For example

This is an utterly trivial percentage of the total, yet takes up a huge amount of space. Sorting and storing it all for a potential forensic examination - even if that were a 'requirement' in law - was not a realistic aim. Not even close.

Nah, all you're doing is creating a fallacious (but, to you, plausible) loophole that forever allows you to justify a wooish belief.

 

[DGM]

I am the one saying we don't have the whole story, while you are one of those who seems to fully accept the present official explanations and seem to believe we do have the whole story, so you should be telling me why there was no photographic evidence of fires in WTC 7 until at least 12:15 PM and all about the fire alarms and why they were set to test mode that morning.

So, is it your position that there were no fires until after noon and they were intentionally set?

Why were there no pictures? I don't know, maybe it had something to do with everyone having better things to do than walking around sight seeing. Do you really find this odd?

Why was the alarm set to "test"? I don't know. For me, the first thing I would do if I was going to burn down a building with thousands of firefighters around would be, make the alarm so it won't call the station. Makes sense to you?

I don't have the whole story, never claimed I did. I also don't go looking for reasons to be suspicious about something I see as straight forward. Got any good reason I should be suspicious?

 

[tsig]

Yes, there is some mystery to it in the sense that NIST says none was saved when explaining why they had no metallographic analysis on steel from WTC 7.

WPI only talks about one small piece of steel from WTC 7, and I would imagine it would have been no problem for NIST to get that piece. Why they didn't is also a mystery.

Real engineers use math.

 

[RedIbis]

Real engineers use math.

So they don't use the physical evidence? Interesting concept.

 

[DGM]

So they don't use the physical evidence? Interesting concept.

They are not limited to.......................................

 

[jaydeehess]

So they don't use the physical evidence? Interesting concept.

What part of the facts are you having a problem with?
Debris was removed quickly to facilitate emergency services operations.

WTC7 steel was not marked with location identifiers.

The sheer amount of debris of 7 large structures would make storing it all, catagorized and accessible, next to impossible, not to mention enormously expensive.
So explain to me how, and where, you would have stored, identified, and catagorized this material.

 

[tfk]

Really? It is interesting that the North Tower collapsed at 10:28 AM and there is no photographic evidence of any fires in WTC 7 until about 12:15 PM. But maybe you didn't know that.

Wow Tony, you've GOT them. This is incontrovertible, rock solid proof of a controlled demolition.

Because we all know that, never in the history of tall steel buildings, has a fire started anywhere in the building EXCEPT right next to a window!!

[ETA] AND we know that every fire alarm is tied directly into the Association of Fire Photographers Emergency Response Hotline. This explains why there is no longer any need for Fire Investigators: there is no longer any doubt about where any fire starts. No need any more to sift thru debris, looking for clues as to the fire's origin. Now, the lazy descendants of real manly Fire Investigators just sit in their air-conditioned offices, feet up on their desks, sipping Evian water, and casually scan thru the photographs that automatically arrive with every fire!!

Your superior intellect has got them on the run now...

 

[000063]

I am the one saying we don't have the whole story, while you are one of those who seems to fully accept the present official explanations and seem to believe we do have the whole story, so you should be telling me why there was no photographic evidence of fires in WTC 7 until at least 12:15 PM and all about the fire alarms and why they were set to test mode that morning.

And yet you do not answer the question, or even explicitly state that you do not know the answer. Curious. All you do is try to stick to a small subset of the evidence and reverse the BOP.

So they don't use the physical evidence? Interesting concept.

Straw man, red herring.

 

[RedIbis]

They are not limited to.......................................

That's not what Tsig said.

 

[DGM]

I'm aware of that. I was simply continuing (what I considered) his thought. If he has a problem with this, I'm sure he'll contact me.

 

[LSSBB]

Endless semantic debates - meaning of evidence, "Not what he said" games. Jay Windley proven right once more about CTers. Thank you also to Gov't Mule:

A primadonna with a premonition feels like he's preachin' to the choir
A superstar filled with superstition can't pull himself out of the mire
All you ever dreamed of is finally in your reach but careful what you wish for
If you don't practice what you preach

The circus came to town, I guess it must have stayed
It's like an endless parade

All these people you can see through like ghosts, maybe you've seen too much
Nothing's real, nothing you can feel, no one you can touch

Strangers stare in silence, they think they know your mind
No place to jump off, that's the way the game's designed

Another new day dawns, another sunset fades
It's like an endless parade

Music, music and more music imploding inside your brain
The life that you have chosen did it finally drive you insane

Psychophantic tirades fill your head with ammunition
Sights set on your enemies but you keep losing your position

Reluctantly you face the day try to get your gameface on
What used to be a fantasy has now become a marathon

Every heart you ever broke, all the people you've betrayed
Another new day dawns
Another sunset fades

Yeh, the circus came to town, I guess it must have stayed
It's like an endless parade

 

[LSSBB]

A further thought... it appears, given the lack of evidence presented by the Truthers, the endless attempts to avoid questions and divert the arguments into meaningless word games, what we have left from them is not a quest for truth. It is a quest to avoid having to change their mind.