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WTC7: The Facts

bio said:
... that was a typical "Jref-Debunker". ;)
like:
NIST was able to provide a full explanation of the total collapse
because
it cannot provide a full explanation of the total collapse.
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And that was a typical truther. Vaguely implying unexplained flaws in my reasoning using bizarre analogies described incomprehensibly, rather than simply showing evidence that five basement levels under wtc7 existed.

Or are you referring to the slight error I made in describing the placement of the tanks, which I then (1) realized I had made, (2) admitted I made, and (3) corrected? I agree that's typical JREF debunker -- or at least, those are three things I rarely if ever see truthers do.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Dr Adequate said:
I asked for facts. If anyone wants to start a thread entitled: "WTC7: The Vacuous Whining Of The Truth Movement", they should feel free.
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Interesting, because you just posted this a few messages back:
'Unfortunately, Truthers don't know what "pull" means ... you can just see 'em scratching their little heads ... "He wants us to pull it? But where will we get the thermite?"'
​
Is that a fact? Who said that, exactly?

Maybe you should set the example and abide by your own rule - or just go start another thread called "WTC7: I'm a hypocrite".
 
Here's a nice picture of WTC7 in the debris field of WTC1.

WTC7-1.0.jpg


And here's some seismic data putting the duration of the collapse at 18 seconds.
 
Hokulele said:
He is too honorable to say Twoofers suck, but the closest is the bit at the very end, "That's the way they portrayed me and I didn't appreciate it, so I told them to pull my interview. Do I think that our government would do something like that to its people? No. I honestly don't believe it."
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The pattern repeats... Silverstein tells the Fire Chief to pull tower 7 with explosives... the work crews pull tower 6 with a crane... Jennings orders hos own interview pulled digitally... the many methods of controlled demolition, sure, but it's getting way too coincidental for me. :confused::lol:

ETA photos and damage
I did these a while back. There may be errors, but this is the gist of the damage you can see I have all the photos called on, if anyone wants I can post any of them in the res I have.
WTC7_SouthFaceDamage2.jpg

WTC7_SouthFaceDamage1.jpg
 
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deep44 said:
You see the link posted in your signature? That's where the "five story basement" claim came from.

Fill in your own joke.
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Mark says that PDF paper has been superceded by a live version and that the five level description is incorrect.

your are wrong deep
 
WildCat said:
I just like to remind truthers that if this were a hold 'em game they're sitting on unsuited 7-2 while we have A-A.

And they never seem to drop no matter how much we raise... it's the gift that keeps on giving!
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And how many times has a hold em player gone down in flames because he went all-in with pocket aces, only to be burned on fifth street by an inside straight?
 
RedIbis said:
If I understand your question, one way would be to get 6-5-4 off suit on the flop and a 3 on the turn or river.
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That's not an inside straight with 7-2.

ETA: How strange of you to change your cards on edit. That's still not an inside straight with 7-2. In both those examples, the 2 is irrelevant.
 
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Perhaps we could return to the topic, please?
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero
 
Dr Adequate said:
Here's a nice picture of WTC7 in the debris field of WTC1.

[qimg]http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2116/144/320/WTC7-1.0.jpg[/qimg]

And here's some seismic data putting the duration of the collapse at 18 seconds.
Click to expand...

It is my impression that the seismic data do not give the collapse times per se, what they give is the duration of time that the buildings were actually pelting the ground. That is, the initial seismic event is when the first part of the building reaches the ground (in this case the east penthouse). Remember, Lamont-Doherty gives the duration of the North Tower collapse at 8 seconds. I don't think anybody can watch that collapse and credibly claim it only took 8 seconds; my best guess is 15 seconds.
 
boloboffin said:
That's not an inside straight with 7-2.

ETA: How strange of you to change your cards on edit. That's still not an inside straight with 7-2. In both those examples, the 2 is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

Good call. Sorry for the derail.

ETA: It would still beat the pocket aces, and it might be still considered an inside straight since you're getting a card at either end.
 
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It's always hard to tell with the south face pictures whether you're looking at a hole or just a grey blurry thing.

This looks clearest:

Image:Abcnews-wtc7damage.jpg


Captain Chris Boyle was talking about:

There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it.​
​
 
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Brainster said:
It is my impression that the seismic data do not give the collapse times per se, what they give is the duration of time that the buildings were actually pelting the ground. That is, the initial seismic event is when the first part of the building reaches the ground (in this case the east penthouse).
Click to expand...

This is correct. Seismographs detect displacement, caused by impulse fed into the ground. Impulse at the ground equals impulse on the falling structure. While the structures are collapsing, there isn't very much impulse, because the lower structure (in the case of WTC 1 and 2) resists only a little bit -- that's why the collapses are rapid. Once the mass hits the ground, however, different story.

WTC 7, on the other hand, is probably a better fit to seimography, because the plane of interaction is closer to the ground. It's also a more rapid collapse for this reason. But who knows exactly what happened in the interior for the ten seconds or so before the perimeter all came down, or whether that would be easily detectable on the seismograph. This is a subjective call and only a few people are qualified to give us a worthwhile opnion on what the traces really say in this case.
 
Okay, here's a start.

[swiki]WTC7[/swiki]

So far it deals with what actually happened, with "controlled demolition" and with "pull"; it doesn't yet discuss the woo relating to motive.

Any comments or criticisms will be appreciated. Unless they're frickin' stupid.
 
Minor nitpick, I was under the impression that the damage to WTC 7 was entirely from debris from WTC 1. The article implies that debris from WTC 2 was involved as well. Is there any evidence for this?
 
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