WTC7 and the NIST free fall failure

Senenmut said:
notice he didnt say if 7 was moving or not when speaking of those surveying instruments. so yeah, this guy is very interesting especially since the cia and secret service were in that building.it would be hard to imagine that they didnt plug in maybe a few cia and secret service people into the OEM since it is the OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT.
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I'd say the assertion that the WTC 7 complex had government offices = CIA plants amongst firefighters is as specious as claiming that the media predicting the collapse of the building = foreknowledge of a nefarious plot. Your case here is based solely on speculation, which while nice does little to forward anything substantive.

The testimony you bring up isn't one of a kind, there are several well-known testimonies about the collapse, this being one:



Which I find reasonable considering that if there's a broader disaster - like trying to save lives after an adjacent collapse - and firefighters cannot approach the building safely, and the resources for fighting the fires are extremely limited, and cannot fight the fire, it lowers the chances of the building surviving in whole or in part. Once you stop trying to put the fire out, you're betting on the building being able to maintain its integrity, and the mechanisms for limiting the fires to kick in, and some of the built in fire suppression was already crippled.
 
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GlennB said:
I also criticised your new flashing graphic (still misaligned, btw) for having the blue line wrong for the S Manhattan area, but you ignored it. You've simply connected GZ with the bottommost part of the plume. Whether this is incompetence or dishonesty I don't know. At GZ the plume is running close to NW.

And I did not draw a W wind. Did you notice the diagram has a compass pointer (not aligned dead N in fact, but very close)? I drew in a NW wind.

Your 'analysis' of these events is so utterly riddled with the most obvious errors as to be worse than worthless. Why should anyone take you seriously?
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Your wind direction is way off. It is neither related to the historical data measured at Central Park nor to the data measured at La Guardia nor to the images e.g. Luc Courchesne nor to satellite photographs.
The Aman Zafar image you linked perfectly shows what I said earlier. So don't be annoying. Get your data straight and come back.
 
9/11 Chewy Defense said:
You didn't say it was the "engineer", did you? Let's look:



Busted!
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busted??? what the hell are ya talking about? yeah, who told those guys that the towers and later 7 was going to collapse. was it your ISO or that "engineer".

but then again, they are unsure what he is:

"I was in a discussion with Mr. Rotanz and I believe it was a
representative from the Department of Buildings, but
I'm not sure. Some engineer type person, and several
of us were huddled talking in the lobby and it was
brought to my attention, it was believed that the
structural damage that was suffered to the towers was
quite significant and they were very confident that the
building's stability was compromised and they felt that
the north tower was in danger of a near imminent
collapse."

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Peruggia_John.txt

do you knowvwho this guy is.
 
achimspok said:
I thought you have a clue since you critisized my first sloppy sketch. Now you obviously have no clue.
[qimg]http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6979/smokecl.gif[/qimg]

Read the historical data for wind direction.
[qimg]http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7033/histgraphall.gif[/qimg]

Your west wind is wrong.
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Your graphs' blink rate is too fast to see anything useful.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
I'd say the assertion that the WTC 7 complex had government offices = CIA plants amongst firefighters is as specious as claiming that the media predicting the collapse of the building = foreknowledge of a nefarious plot. Your case here is based solely on speculation, which while nice does little to forward anything substantive.
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not plants within the firefighters, just in the OEM. not necessarly even "plants", since it was mayor Giuliani's command post in the event of an emergency. why would it be a stretch to have included cia and the secret service within the OEM for an emergency?

Grizzly Bear said:
The testimony you bring up isn't one of a kind, there are several well-known testimonies about the collapse, this being one:

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i dont think the youtube vid is working?
 
9/11 Chewy Defense said:
Well you need to concentrait on what subject you're talking about & which floors you're assuming.

Just don't let it happen again!
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He doesn't know a explosive would kill people. 911 truth suffers from fantasy delusions. These guys still looking for their inside job smoking gun, or as the insane Jones says, loaded gun. Collapsing building, are explosives in 911 truth world of woo. And free-fall, using free-fall in anything, anyway is the sign of delusions on 911.
 
Senenmut said:
busted??? what the hell are ya talking about? yeah, who told those guys that the towers and later 7 was going to collapse. was it your ISO or that "engineer".

but then again, they are unsure what he is:

"I was in a discussion with Mr. Rotanz and I believe it was a
representative from the Department of Buildings, but
I'm not sure. Some engineer type person, and several
of us were huddled talking in the lobby and it was
brought to my attention, it was believed that the
structural damage that was suffered to the towers was
quite significant and they were very confident that the
building's stability was compromised and they felt that
the north tower was in danger of a near imminent
collapse."

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Peruggia_John.txt

do you knowvwho this guy is.
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See, like I said: "....you my friend have idea what the hell you're talking about."

Actually I do know who that guy is, his name's Richard Rotanz:

http://www.linycemconference.com/pdf/bios/Richard_Rotanz.pdf

Prior to his tenure in Nassau County he served as Deputy Director of New York City's Office of Emergency Management under Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani where he was responsible for research and planning, as well as re-instituting the destroyed emergency operation center at Pier 92, and managing the multi-organization
response during the 9/11 tragedy. Mr. Rotanz has more than forty years of
experience in emergency management, fire protection (25 years in the New York City Fire Department) , specialized rescue, hazardous materials incidents, nursing, and planning for all natural, civil, and technological hazards, including acts of terrorism.
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Since he worked with the FDNY for 25 yrs. I think he got his information from a few ISOs' who was near WTC7.

Again, you have nothing to say about anything reguarding 9/11.
 
carlitos said:
I'm sure "right on the money" is as accurate as the fake quote from William Colby in Senenmut's signature.
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Hayden: "Well we had our special operations people set up surveying instruments to monitor and see if there was any movement of the building. We were concerned of the possibility of collapse of the building, and we had a discussion with one particular engineer and we asked him if we allowed it to burn could we anticipate a collapse and, if so, how soon. And it turned out that he was pretty much right on the money that he said in its current state you have about five hours."

look it up.
 
beachnut said:
He doesn't know a explosive would kill people. 911 truth suffers from fantasy delusions. These guys still looking for their inside job smoking gun, or as the insane Jones says, loaded gun. Collapsing building, are explosives in 911 truth world of woo. And free-fall, using free-fall in anything, anyway is the sign of delusions on 911.
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Yup, you're right as always Beachnut. ;)
 
tsig said:
Your graphs' blink rate is too fast to see anything useful.
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wind2d.png


windu.png


Btw, the correct angle doesn't matter at all since the wind came from north of the building.
 
beachnut said:
He doesn't know a explosive would kill people. 911 truth suffers from fantasy delusions. These guys still looking for their inside job smoking gun, or as the insane Jones says, loaded gun. Collapsing building, are explosives in 911 truth world of woo. And free-fall, using free-fall in anything, anyway is the sign of delusions on 911.
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He doesn't know an explosive blew away walls and damaged rooms and equipment. The rest is the usual babble.
 
Interesting facts:

http://www.fireengineering.com/inde...nitial-response/first-chief-on-the-scene.html

Concerning WTC1 & 2:

CHIEF JOSEPH PFEIFER:

Deputy Chief Peter Hayden arrived and assumed command. My role was to assist Chief Hayden. The decision was made to develop a strategy that focused on rescue and evacuation, not extinguishment.
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http://www.wtc7.net/warnings.html

Fire Chief Joseph Pfeifer describes Chief Nigro ordering people away from the building:

"Yes, I watched 7. At one point, we were standing on the west side of West Street and Vesey. And I remember Chief Nigro coming back at that point saying I don't want anybody else killed and to take everybody two blocks up virtually to North End and Vesey, which is a good ways up. And we stood there and we watched 7 collapse."

Fire Chief Daniel Nigro describes his reasons for creating the collapse zone:

"The biggest decision we had to make on the first day was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story building heavily involved in fire. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building's integrity was in serious doubt. I issued the orders to pull back the firefighters and define the collapse zone. It was a critical decision; we could not lose any more firefighters. It took a lot of time to pull everyone out, given the emotionalism of the day, communications difficulties, and the collapse terrain."
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