WTC7 and the NIST free fall failure

Failed truthers are angry at NIST, they think steel is indestructible. If you failed for 9 years you would be angry too. Failed truthers ignore 7 hours of fires not fought, and over 11 seconds of internal collapse before they study the facade collapse, a delusional narrow study with no goal. The anti-intellectual obsession with NIST, not a surprise when "publish or perish" was for one.

I know what you mean! :D

They fear NIST because it makes their claims look like pudding. Not a single Truther has ever debunked NIST's research & evidence. All they can do it cherry pick the evidence & quote mine NIST researchers.

Sorry Truthers, NIST can't be beat by stupidity!
 
Damage and fire brought the building down. The world's engineering and scientific communities don't appear to have a problem with that part of the equation. A couple truthers on a relatively obscure internet forum aren't exactly going to change their minds.

Publish or perish gentlemen.
 
I am still trying to understand what these bozos are trying to prove. Other than having an issue with one measurement they haven't said anything that would change anything NIST concluded nor has it introduced the opportunity for any other scenario as the cause of the collapse of 7 WTC. Heck, I can't even figure out if they are saying the building achieved free fall or not or what that has to do with anything.

IMO these two guys know they have nothing and that is why they don't take it farther than this and their little forum. They would have to answer to professionals and possibly even explain why this is the least bit important.

I will say again this is a whole lotta words and work for absolutely nothing but I guess people need hoobies.
 
Damage and fire brought the building down. The world's engineering and scientific communities don't appear to have a problem with that part of the equation. A couple truthers on a relatively obscure internet forum aren't exactly going to change their minds.

Publish or perish gentlemen.
Beachnut did it in an lab, I do it here. May be a question of generation-conflict but it's called "discussion". It's not about CD or fire or 10 o'clock, it's about up-down-left-right over time. And you see tfk had the right tip where to find the spotted skypixel. The gamble paid off.
 
tiny little correction for the perspective
[qimg]http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1387/nistmeasurement.gif[/qimg]

achimspok, femr2 ignored the suggestion, but I'll mention to you as well.

You aren't going to convince any of of anything with upside-down, overlaid, animated flashing graphs. Honestly, posting them just makes you look crazy.
 
achimspok, femr2 ignored the suggestion, but I'll mention to you as well.

You aren't going to convince any of of anything with upside-down, overlaid, animated flashing graphs. Honestly, posting them just makes you look crazy.
Sorry, the NIST graph fell upwards.
My fell downwards. I just wanted to show the overlay.
Use the readable scale and you have all necessary information.
 
achimspok, femr2 ignored the suggestion, but I'll mention to you as well.

You aren't going to convince any of of anything with upside-down, overlaid, animated flashing graphs. Honestly, posting them just makes you look crazy.
Sorry, the NIST graph fell upwards.
My fell downwards. I just wanted to show the overlay.
Use the readable scale and you have all necessary information.
You had a choice of which graph to flip: yours or NIST's. Had you flipped yours, you could have redone your labels and text so they'd be just as readable as NIST's. So you flipped NIST's.

Makes perfect sense to me.
 
How would you say? LMFAO!

Lacking any cogent arguments, I guess "LMFAO" is the best that you can do.

You say - and the report of course - that the real enineers had chosen exactly the location of the later kink.
Indeed, that's the most distorted point of all points. Good choice!

Yeah, as a matter of fact, if you had a clue about "enineering", you'd realize that real engineers often go to exactly the point of earliest failure. Because they're looking for the causes of failures, and failures spread. The late failures are the "results", and the early ones are the "causes".

And, if your own graph proves it.

rottop00100.png

"Center East 47" = east edge of the louver

Notice anything about the earliest evidence of the collapse in your curves? On which of your graph lines did it happen?

Pretty good job by the "real engineers", no?!

But it's of course the point where engineers get such a strange feeling. Can't describe it.

Not "feelings". "Knowledge & experience".

I KNOW that you "can't explain it".
It's been obvious to me since I first read your posts.

That's a large source of your fundamental problem.

...feels like dotting whatsoever down until a building comes into sight - taking a ruler - calculating a nice smooth nonsense - calculating more nonsense out of nonsense ...
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7954/rulerl.png
Get ready for the ruler!

Rulers are pointless. Rulers are wrong.

The fact that you can't figure out what is the CORRECT technique for transposing the point, even tho I explained it precisely, is indicative of your lack of knowledge.

BTW, I've asked you about 5 times now, and you've refused to answer.

What is your profession?
Chef?
Chauffeur?
Student?

Any particular reason that you're embarrassed to answer?

Btw, what's your agenda?

Same as it's always been.

1) Live well.
2) Make a difference. (In my case by designing medical devices.)
3) Point out the comedic haplessness of a bunch of clowns that think that, lacking any of the necessary knowledge, they can "correct" the work of 100s of the world's best engineers.
 
The TM is cute. Reminds somehow on all the money that was made out of 9/11. Cute!

Since you didn't answer my question, I won't answer yours and instead restate mine:

When will you present your "work" to NIST or the scientific community?

Also I would like to ask who you think made the most money directly from 9/11.
 
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TFK post 437: "Yeah, as a matter of fact, if you had a clue about "enineering", you'd realize that real engineers often go to exactly the point of earliest failure. Because they're looking for the causes of failures, and failures spread. The late failures are the "results", and the early ones are the "causes". "

We did this for WTC1 as you recall, showing early antenna movement from 9.5 seconds before visible collapse. It was also done for the NW corner, which pulled inward from about fl 98 upwards over the same 9.5 seconds.

With WTC1, downward antenna movement is visible to the naked eye from at least 2 viewpoints close to 2 seconds before corresponding movement of either the NW corner or the SW corner fire.



Just about every one of these features were ignored by you as you still try to pimp south wall failure as the cause of collapse just as Uncle NIST claims.


You still live in total ignorance that these phenomena occurred while you try to put some lipstick and high heels on the NIST WTC1 collapse initiation description based on some rigid tilt fantasy on a different thread.

Practice what you preach, and look for the earliest motion in WTC1 also.

By the way, femr has already shown the earliest detectable motion thus far in WTC7 leading into the collapse initiation sequence, and you ignored that, too.

History rewritten, can't stop to count the dead, yet you remain unashamed of your own repeated demonstrations of ignorance.
 
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TFK post 437: "Yeah, as a matter of fact, if you had a clue about "enineering", you'd realize that real engineers often go to exactly the point of earliest failure. Because they're looking for the causes of failures, and failures spread. The late failures are the "results", and the early ones are the "causes". "

We did this for WTC1 as you recall, showing early antenna movement from 9.5 seconds before visible collapse. It was also done for the NW corner, which pulled inward from about fl 98 upwards over the same 9.5 seconds.

With WTC1, downward antenna movement is visible to the naked eye from at least 2 viewpoints close to 2 seconds before corresponding movement of either the NW corner or the SW corner fire.



Just about every one of these features were ignored by you as you still try to pimp south wall failure as the cause of collapse just as Uncle NIST claims.


You still live in total ignorance that these phenomena occurred while you try to put some lipstick and high heels on the NIST WTC1 collapse initiation description based on some rigid tilt fantasy on a different thread.

Practice what you preach, and look for the earliest motion in WTC1 also.

By the way, femr has already shown the earliest detectable motion thus far in WTC7 leading into the collapse initiation sequence, and you ignored that, too.

History rewritten, can't stop to count the dead, yet you remain unashamed of your own repeated demonstrations of ignorance.

Same question to you, Tom. Have you presented your conclusions to NIST or the scientific community? If not, why not? Don't you think they should have the opportunity to respond to your criticism of their report?
 
We did this for WTC1 as you recall, showing early antenna movement from 9.5 seconds before visible collapse. It was also done for the NW corner, which pulled inward from about fl 98 upwards over the same 9.5 seconds.

Which means exactly what?

I applaud you all for making refinements to the analysis of these collapses. What I don't agree with is your constant need to attack NIST, instead of simply putting your complete theories and data together and publishing them for peer review.

If your ideas are indeed vastly superior to those of the NIST report, the engineering community will appoint you as best standard. You will have the respect of 1000's of engineers in hundreds of engineering schools.

If I were as certain as you seem to be that it's a slam-beedunk (you'll have to look up that term in the special truther dictionary ;) ) I'd be all over it by now.

What are you waiting for? Elevate yourself to the level of Dr. Bazant, for example, and publish in the journal of the ASCE. I'm all for it.
 
I am still trying to understand what these bozos are trying to prove.

Basically, if they can get us to admit there was a flaw in the NCSTAR, then they must be wrong in other areas of their investigation as well.

Considering that the toofers are working from lies, ignorance, pompous attitudes, and flawed data to push their agenda, that will never happen.
 
You had a choice of which graph to flip: yours or NIST's. Had you flipped yours, you could have redone your labels and text so they'd be just as readable as NIST's. So you flipped NIST's.

Makes perfect sense to me.
Some more of a deep phsychological insight.
The fact is, I took the graphs as they were. Made perfect sense to me.
 
Lacking any cogent arguments, I guess "LMFAO" is the best that you can do.

Yeah, as a matter of fact, if you had a clue about "enineering", you'd realize that real engineers often go to exactly the point of earliest failure. Because they're looking for the causes of failures, and failures spread. The late failures are the "results", and the early ones are the "causes".

And, if your own graph proves it.

[qimg]http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5535/rottop00100.png[/qimg]
Common tfk, my graphs are better than the cited LMFAO. If you look for the earliest failure then look at femr's graph. If you look for earliest sign of perimeter collapse the watch the NE corner when it (horizontally) starts to rotate outwards while the measured point start to rotated inwards.
If you look for maximized perspective "distortion" under the condition of misinterpretation of "downwards" movement then look at the east edge of the louver.

Notice anything about the earliest evidence of the collapse in your curves? On which of your graph lines did it happen? Pretty good job by the "real engineers", no?!
According to your definition that collapse is "downwards" look at the fat yellow graph. That's a straight line between east and west corner.
As I said before, what looks like "downwards" in 2D isn't always downwards in 3D. I know, you had a little discussion with Major Tom about the possibility of a apparent "rising" of the WTC1 top while it actually is falling.
Well, you are right. If for example the top of the tower was leaning >15° towards the Sauret camera in the north and consequently starts to tilt south then it might look like rising for a moment.

Not "feelings". "Knowledge & experience" tell you that. Once you have done it often then you get a "nose for it".

I KNOW that you "can't explain it".
It's been obvious to me since I first read your posts.
Well, that's the reason for the Gifs, you know. Look at this little give away gif. It's about "rising and falling".
tfkrise.gif

Let's say a north shift that nullify a south tilt from different perspectives is nonsense.
That's a large source of your fundamental problem.
...and a little more psychology. What's your problem, Tom?
Why do you see rising when actually falling or falling when it actually goes sidways?

Rulers are pointless. Rulers are wrong.

The fact that you can't figure out what is the CORRECT technique for transposing the point, even tho I explained it precisely, is indicative of your lack of knowledge.
Oh, yes you explained it precisely. I just would add those minor details like roof deformation and perspective shortening. Once your east point reached the house you will get a lot of trouble to track a real corresponding point (at a different scale of course) on the west side. Can you figure out what I mean? Need a little Gif?
I don't say it is impossible to track a movement that way - especially if the preciseness is something like 4 balls per second connected by a trend.
...impossible to distinguish between movement 1 and movement 2.
You are in big trouble because you have no freakin' clue what your measurement really measured.

BTW, I've asked you about 5 times now, and you've refused to answer.

What is your profession?
Chef?
Chauffeur?
Student?
chef, my own one, studied twice, two degrees, connected both, learned something about perspective, your chauffer

Same as it's always been.

1) Live well.
2) Make a difference. (In my case by designing medical devices.)
3) Point out the comedic haplessness of a bunch of clowns that think that, lacking any of the necessary knowledge, they can "correct" the work of 100s of the world's best engineers.
Since one of my studies was "medical engineering" - how does it feel to design medical devices as structural engineer for high rises? Feels it like "I know nothing about it" in the way you argue as structural engineer or would you say that some principles are quite similar.
You know, I dont expect that you can design a tool to measure the blood pressure on the retina but would you say you are able to understand the physical and medical principles? Otherwise don't design medical devices. You could kill someone.
 
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Since you didn't answer my question, I won't answer yours and instead restate mine:

When will you present your "work" to NIST or the scientific community?

Also I would like to ask who you think made the most money directly from 9/11.
OMG uke2se, I answered. I answered that question about ten times right in this very thread because that's the only question you guys have about that issue.

Let me answer in detail. It wasn't my intention to publish it because I never thought that it is such a big thing.
You wan't me to do it. OK. You run around like crazy since I used the word free fall. OK.
Seems important. Will publish. Don't know when. Lot of other work to do. Will use 2-3 days off - without family - for a nice form.
Is it good for you? Are you in a hurry after 9 years of failure? What is it?
Don't be annoying! Help to clear up possible failures (if you can) before published. Otherwise we jump out of the frying pan into the fire, right?
 
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Also I would like to ask who you think made the most money directly from 9/11.
It's a little bit complicated because what is "directly"?
Put options? Dissappeared gold? Security contracts? Movies like "Flight 93"? End of Enron investigation? The Silverstein insurance? TV specials? Seven years of NIST engineering? The war against terror? Books about Bin Laden and the dangerous Islam? Attas 100.000$ from Pakistan? Susan Ginsburg? Halliburton and the Iraq contracts? Blackwater? Bush's second election? T-Shirts?
What the hell is directly?
 
... as you still try to pimp south wall failure as the cause of collapse just as Uncle NIST claims.
May be he can explain the mechanism of load redistribution from the south wall via (I guess) the outriggers that caused the core to collapse? In reverse we would have some hypothesis to look for e.g. convex roof deformation or...
 
Btw, WTC7 did some minor damage to I think 3 other buildings several meters away.
Is it the "no footprint" argument? LMAO

Yes, so minor that Fiterman hall had to be demolished because it couldn't be repaired.
'The CUNY building plus the nearby Deutsche Bank structure suffered extensive collateral damage from the WTC attacks.'

And you purport to be even a tiny bit objective and accurate in your views on the WTC building collapses? Your credibility just went to zero.

414px-Fiterman_hall_damage.jpg
 

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