WTC7 and the girder walk-off between column 79 and 44

[Miragememories]

Tony has been soundly refuted and is being ignored by every single respected engineering organization on Earth. You're a cheerleader for the wrong team, Clayton

You are speaking strictly as a cheerleader yourself I presume.

MM

 

[twinstead]

You are speaking strictly as a cheerleader yourself I presume.

MM

I'm speaking of someone who pays attention to what the real experts think, not what spittle spewing cult members on obscure internet forums and web sites present--yea, I'm a cheerleader for the real world.

 

[Justin39640]

Sorry, fuel cells are just energy storage units too. Takes energy to charge them.

Also, for all batteries, disposal of batteries is biggest problem. I'd fully expect the same issue with Lithium.

We need a prime mover.

For me, fission nuclear is the only WORKABLE short term bridge to a long term solution, fusion nuclear.

Other technologies will supplement, but don't provide sufficient, constant, reliable energy.

Oh I totally agree, but the problem really is the power source (an extremely safe and reliable one). We can make a very efficient electric vehicle (3 phase AC wheel motors with inverter motor controls), but how do you make it go and go without burning gas? Right now, the best answer is hydrogen, no need to charge it. Just fill it up like your old Nova lol. We have a fuel cell option for electric forklifts. Have to install a filling station and store hydrogen though. For safety, I'd stick with lead acid batteries (for machines, not cars).

Baby steps my friend. You don't want Joe Bob, the shade tree mechanic, rebuilding his own fusion unit just yet lol.

 

[Justin39640]

You are talking apples and oranges when you discuss prime movers in your attempt to diminish my point about lithium ion batteries being a game changer. One doesn't need a nuclear power plant in their house to use the energy from it. The lithium ion battery in an electric or hybrid vehicle may not generate the actual energy but it puts it in useable form for the platform. Where the energy originally comes from before being stored in the battery is another point and of course the energy generation by wind, solar, tidal, wave, and OTEC energy can be done cleanly and renewably and transferred to the battery.

You have no clue what you are talking about. The only reason we have Li-ion batteries is because lead acids are too heavy (amongst other problems). Many of the worlds first automobiles were powered by banks of 6 or 8 volt LA batteries. The game changer is actually the tech in the vehicles. Li-ion batteries actually handcuff that potential to time consuming charging and their limited range. And Tony, How do you think most of the world's electricity is generated? Coal, natural gas, and oil. The more people that are charging, the more oil the power stations are gonna need. I laugh at hippies in electric cars cause they haven't looked into it very deeply (esp around here). They'll find their footprint is still decently big. Want to change something? Ride a bike (with pedals).

 

[Tony Szamboti]

You have no clue what you are talking about. The only reason we have Li-ion batteries is because lead acids are too heavy (amongst other problems). Many of the worlds first automobiles were powered by banks of 6 or 8 volt LA batteries. The game changer is actually the tech in the vehicles. Li-ion batteries actually handcuff that potential to time consuming charging and their limited range. And Tony, How do you think most of the world's electricity is generated? Coal, natural gas, and oil. The more people that are charging, the more oil the power stations are gonna need. I laugh at hippies in electric cars cause they haven't looked into it very deeply (esp around here). They'll find their footprint is still decently big. Want to change something? Ride a bike (with pedals).

Lithium ion is certainly a game changer for electric and hybrid vehicles. The reason for that is energy density, and the fact that enough energy can be put on board the vehicle without incurring an excessive weight penalty. The weight penalty is why lead acid batteries won't work for vehicles in a satisfactory way and that was why the internal combustion engine won out 100 years ago. Lithium ion changes that paradigm.

Currently 67% of the world's electric is generated by coal, natural gas, and oil and about 29% by non-CO2 producing nuclear and hydro. Wind and solar have been gaining ground over just the last few years and will be supplanting coal and oil significantly in the near future. Natural gas has a significantly lower carbon footprint per kWh generated than oil and coal http://www.terrapass.com/science-technology/natural-gas-to-the-rescue/. With natural gas electric generation replacing coal the carbon footprint of the electric or hybrid vehicle goes down significantly. The secondary point I was making concerning wind, solar, tidal, wave, and OTEC generating methods was about going to clean renewables. Using these clean renewable methods the carbon footprint of the electric or hybrid vehicle can be quite small. The reduction of the carbon footprint with vehicles can be done very efficiently with electric, but not significantly with vehicles burning fossil fuels directly.

 

[Animal]

Lithium ion is certainly a game changer for electric and hybrid vehicles. The reason for that is energy density, and the fact that enough energy can be put on board the vehicle without incurring an excessive weight penalty. The weight penalty is why lead acid batteries won't work for vehicles in a satisfactory way and that was why the internal combustion engine won out 100 years ago. Lithium ion changes that paradigm.

Currently 67% of the world's electric is generated by coal, natural gas, and oil and about 29% by non-CO2 producing nuclear and hydro. Wind and solar have been gaining ground over just the last few years and will be supplanting coal and oil significantly in the near future. Natural gas has a significantly lower carbon footprint per kWh generated than oil and coal http://www.terrapass.com/science-technology/natural-gas-to-the-rescue/. With natural gas electric generation replacing coal the carbon footprint of the electric or hybrid vehicle goes down significantly. The secondary point I was making concerning wind, solar, tidal, wave, and OTEC generating methods was about going to clean renewables. Using these clean renewable methods the carbon footprint of the electric or hybrid vehicle can be quite small. The reduction of the carbon footprint with vehicles can be done very efficiently with electric, but not significantly with vehicles burning fossil fuels directly.

We can add economics to the long list of topics that TS has displayed his incompetence.

 

[BasqueArch]

I received TS' 5 FEA color slides re the walk-off of the WTC7 girder from its seat. He claims the girder did not buckle. His slides show the girder buckled.

Not shown due to his incomplete FEA, is that the girder bottom flange was pushed off >6.5 inches, past its supporting seat, by the beams.

 

[Locknar]

This thread has long since been off-topic, beaches of rules 0 and 12 aside, discussing the towers (in general), power, etc.

As such, thread closed. Please discuss 9/11 topics in the available threads, as appropriate.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar

 

[remo]

Magic bolts

Yet Salvarinas has 32 3/4" shear-studs on each of the beams W24x55-53ft&11/16in long, and whereas NIST calculated expansion on unrestrained beams with no shear-studs at 598.89˚C = 5.70in 'walk'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zsp0UcgMzs&feature=player_embedded#!
shows NIST worked on seat PF at 11in wide with two bolts attaching girder, allowing for no shear stud or other resistance [welds] in calculating expansion at 600C.
32 shear-studs equally spaced each beam and the girder W33x130, between column 44 and 79 had 30 3/4" studs equally spaced. Salverinas 1986, but More than that, Frankel drawing 1091 has the seat at 12", with PG under it at 14", walk off to fail approx 9.4" required which pretty well does for the 5.70 max achieved by NIST on UNRESTRAINED beams., but, further, drawing 9114 has a PL plate 5.5"x3/4"x1'6" welded each side of center girder flange. not two bolts at all. But a girder with multiple restraint to beam walk off.

 

[jaydeehess]

Yet Salvarinas has 32 3/4" shear-studs on each of the beams W24x55-53ft&11/16in long, and whereas NIST calculated expansion on unrestrained beams with no shear-studs at 598.89˚C = 5.70in 'walk'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zsp0UcgMzs&feature=player_embedded#!
shows NIST worked on seat PF at 11in wide with two bolts attaching girder, allowing for no shear stud or other resistance [welds] in calculating expansion at 600C.
32 shear-studs equally spaced each beam and the girder W33x130, between column 44 and 79 had 30 3/4" studs equally spaced. Salverinas 1986, but More than that, Frankel drawing 1091 has the seat at 12", with PG under it at 14", walk off to fail approx 9.4" required which pretty well does for the 5.70 max achieved by NIST on UNRESTRAINED beams., but, further, drawing 9114 has a PL plate 5.5"x3/4"x1'6" welded each side of center girder flange. not two bolts at all. But a girder with multiple restraint to beam walk off.

That specific subject is the topic of another thread where it was discussed extensively. Go find it.

This thread, the one you are posting in is dealing with another subject and you are off topic. If you want to discuss something else then go to threads that discuss it.

I might add that your inability to properly express yourself was amusing but was becoming tiresome. Much better this time I must admit. Also, glad to see that you managed to leave the frothing at the mouth rhetoric aside this time.

 

[Justin39640]

Also, glad to see that you managed to leave the frothing at the mouth rhetoric aside this time.

Copy and paste tends to have that effect!

 

[jaydeehess]

Here you go remo go for it.
105 pages for you to review and enjoy.

ETA: it did go off topic wildly and the thread was subsequently closed. A fate that could befall this thread if posters took up your own off topic derail. However the discussion for the first 80 pages seems pretty much directly on this specific bugaboo of yours.

 

[jaydeehess]

Copy and paste tends to have that effect!

One wonders then if such oddities as 'lost of blood' is a copy of someone else's inability to express themselves in English and remo was unable to recognize the mistake, or if its his own error.