Wtc 7

[R.Mackey]

Was the "collapse" of WTC 7 not symmetric for you or just a little symmetric or mainly symmetric? How can you say,the collapse was "actually not all that symmetric".

Are you familiar with the sequence of collapse? The final spread of debris? The wall sections lying on top of the pile afterward?

If you were, you probably wouldn't ask such a question.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Wow, look at those raging camp fires on a couple of floors. I guess we
better stay out of steel framed buildings from now on...or maybe stop building
them completely.

Are you Zennsmack, P'doh or just mentally retarded?

 

[~enigma~]

Permission? Why does the fire commander need to call Silverstein to ask
him, tell him, whatever...they he's going to "pull it" (his human crew) out
of a building?

He didn't need to but he did it out of something you and your truther buddies have never seen nor neard of. Common courtesy.

 

[Turbofan]

He didn't need to but he did it out of something you and your truther buddies have never seen nor neard of. Common courtesy.

Right...he called Larry before removing his crew that was in this supposed
'danger'...because it's more courteous to please one man, than your crew
of fire fighters.

Fire Fighter - "Commander, can we come out now, it's really bad in here!"

Commander - "Hang on guys, I'm trying to get a hold of Larry. Hang in there, I'll let
you know when to come out after talking it over with Larry."

 

[~enigma~]

Right...he called Larry before removing his crew that was in this supposed
'danger'...because it's more courteous to please one man, than your crew
of fire fighters.

Fire Fighter - "Commander, can we come out now, it's really bad in here!"

Commander - "Hang on guys, I'm trying to get a hold of Larry. Hang in there, I'll let
you know when to come out after talking it over with Larry."

You have a problem with it...tell someone who cares cause your hangups are not anybodies problems but your own.

 

[Mr.Herbert]

Wow, look at those raging camp fires on a couple of floors. I guess we
better stay out of steel framed buildings from now on...or maybe stop building
them completely.

Wow look at the imbecile.

Oh, and hey...if you see a steel building on fire, I encourage you to run right in.

 

[Alt+F4]

Right...he called Larry before removing his crew that was in this supposed
'danger'...because it's more courteous to please one man, than your crew
of fire fighters.

Fire Fighter - "Commander, can we come out now, it's really bad in here!"

Commander - "Hang on guys, I'm trying to get a hold of Larry. Hang in there, I'll let
you know when to come out after talking it over with Larry."

So what are you saying? That the FDNY is in Silverstein's pocket, willing to do his bidding?

 

[R.Mackey]

Right...he called Larry before removing his crew that was in this supposed
'danger'...because it's more courteous to please one man, than your crew
of fire fighters.

There is no evidence that the conversation happened before or after the actual decision on the ground, or that the two were in any way correlated. It appeared to be a courtesy call. It's also not at all unusual for the IC to keep in contact with building owners, particularly if there are questions about tenants and occupancy, or potential hazardous materials.

Furthermore, the operation that was "pulled" wasn't fighting the building fire anyway. Most of it was a rescue effort, as firefighters searched for victims caught in the debris field outside WTC 7. Those firefighters knew of the danger of collapse, yet were reluctant to leave, and went right back to it the instant WTC 7 finally came down. Nobody was working against their will until Uncle Larry decided to give them a pass.

This is all clear from the firefighter testimonies. You should also take a look at Mr. Scheuerman's book on the subject.

 

[WildCat]

You and your friends dont want to accept the witness-accounts of sounds of explosions. You just spin these accounts: "they did not see a bomb", they just heard and saw "explosions", which could also be explained by something else than bombs, and so on and so on. Now you landed on your JREF-landing place and claim proudly "nobody heard the sounds of demolition charges."

bio, actual demo charges wouldn't have just been heard by a few people very close to them. They would have been heard from miles away, and every video camera recording the scene would have recorded the sounds of the explosions.

They would have been an order of magnitude louder than the "explosions" heard by witnesses, most of which happened long before the towers collapsed.

 

[Turbofan]

There is no evidence that the conversation happened before or after the actual decision on the ground, or that the two were in any way correlated.

So you don't agree with most people here that it was a call to pull the firemen?

"I remember getting a call from the commander...so much loss of life...
maybe the best thing to do is "Pull it"...and then the decision was made to pull...and we watched the building fall."


How many different versions of this story are you guys going with?

 

[R.Mackey]

So you don't agree with most people here that it was a call to pull the firemen?

"I remember getting a call from the commander...so much loss of life...
maybe the best thing to do is "Pull it"...and then the decision was made to pull...and we watched the building fall."


How many different versions of this story are you guys going with?

The call had nothing to do with the decision to "pull" the firemen. The decision would have been made, the same way, regardless of what Mr. Silverstein said. Chief Nigro, who made the decision, has confirmed this.

There is nothing about that statement that says "pull"ing was dependent on Mr. Silverstein's acquiescence. All he says is that he agreed with them, a decision was made, and hours later the decision turned out to be fully justified as the structure did indeed collapse as expected.

There are no different versions of the story. The distinctions you claim to have are your own misunderstanding, caused by obsession over "anomalies."

 

[uk_dave]

they just heard and saw "explosions", which could also be explained by something else than bombs,

Saw?

Spin much?

 

[WildCat]

So you don't agree with most people here that it was a call to pull the firemen?

"I remember getting a call from the commander...so much loss of life...
maybe the best thing to do is "Pull it"...and then the decision was made to pull...and we watched the building fall."


How many different versions of this story are you guys going with?

You claim Silverstein ordered the Fire Department to blow up WTC 7 in this call, and at this point firemen ran into the burning building and planted demo charges, correct?

Of course, you'll run from this question just like the Pentagon narrative you avoid like it was herpes. Truther "theories" sound mind-boggling stupid when you flesh them out a bit, don't they?

 

[Magenta]

Turbofan and his ilk are too wilfully obtuse to take in any information that might conflict with their beliefs. However, if the OP is still following this thread then they might want to took at Arthur Scheuerman's interview on Hardfire. He gruffly dismissed any suggestion that a fire chief would be asking the building owner for permission to withdraw firefighters.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8171587265178134516&hl=en

Also, in the BBC documentary linked on the first page of this thread, Chief Nigro made it abundantly clear that the firefighters were pulled away from search and rescue work because of the imminent collapse of WTC7. He has also confirmed (again, this was on page 1 of this thread) that he had no recollection of a conversation with Silverstein and would not have consulted with him about such an evacuation in any case.

At this point in the thread, Turbofan is just playing silly buggers and it's pathetic.

 

[TexasJack]

So you don't agree with most people here that it was a call to pull the firemen?

"I remember getting a call from the commander...so much loss of life...
maybe the best thing to do is "Pull it"...and then the decision was made to pull...and we watched the building fall."


How many different versions of this story are you guys going with?

You can't even get the quote right, Silverstein said "they made the decision". How many different versions of the quote are you guys going with?

 

[A W Smith]

"Madam Speaker, Building 7 of the World Trade Center housed a number of Federal Government offices, including the IRS, the EEOC, the Defense Department, the Securities and Exchange Commission, and the New York field office of the United States Secret Service. The field office was destroyed on September 11 and, tragically, Master Special Officer Craig Miller lost his life when the building collapsed."
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/R?r107:FLD001:H51497

from your link

On September 11, like any other morning, most of the Secret Service employees were either settling into their offices or still making their way to work. Others were about to attend meetings to prepare for the upcoming meeting of the United Nations General Assembly. At 8:48 a.m. their offices in Building 7 shook and the lights flickered. Most of them stopped for a quick moment but quickly returned to their work.

However, after realizing that a plane had hit the north tower of the World Trade Center, they very quickly went into an alert mode. Although most other tenants started to evacuate the building, the men and women of the Secret Service instinctively grabbed first aid trauma kits and other emergency equipment.
Special Agent in Charge, Steve Carey, and other managers ran from one floor to another, and room to room, to ensure that everyone was moving to safety. Once outside, they saw the sky engulfed by flames and smoke. Some of the agents ran into the north tower to assist in the evacuation process. Others began to execute the emergency medical skills that they had been trained to perform and set up small triage units on West Street to assist the injured.
Tragically, as the gentleman from Idaho (Mr. Otter) has said, the Secret Service lost an employee, Master Special Officer Craig Miller. Officer Miller was on a temporary assignment in New York for the United Nations General Assembly and was nearby at the Marriott Hotel when the first plane hit the World Trade Center. Although the hotel was evacuated, it appears that Officer Miller stayed behind to help. Because of his military background and extensive emergency medical training, those who knew Officer Miller believe his life was taken while trying to assist the wounded. In fact, some of the medical equipment was later found in the lobby of the Marriott Hotel that that particular officer had in his possession.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

You guys have to remember that little old Turbofan here is getting his info from the cult tabloid PFT. So he isn't going to have the full quotes or understand what happened. he is only going to know what the PFT cult says, which is about as wrong as it gets. How is he supposed to know that Silverstein wasn't commanding or making decisions? Of course PFT is not going to include that part. Of course he's going to think the dust was moving upwards because that's what the idiots at the PFT tabloid are saying.

Now if you were discussing this with someone who actually researched the issue, it would be understandable. But then again, if someone had researched the matter, they wouldn't be bringing up the laughable arguments that Turbo is bringing up.

 

[A W Smith]

Well - he did ask.





I have personally witnessed the demolition of steel-frame hi-rises - the collapses of which actually displayed less symmetricality than that of WTC7.

A team of demolition experts versus random, asymmetrical damage - and the latter does the cleaner job?

Not simple.

And if you knew even the very basics of building demolition. You would know there is a very good reason for asymmetric demolition. There may be underground utilities adjacent to the footprint of the structure on which hundreds of tons of debris can do great damage if dropped on it. Or there may be adjacent high rises only 8 feet away that must of course not be damaged. This would mean charges on that side of the building would be set to blast last. causing the building to cascade away from adjacent structures and utilities.

 

[A W Smith]

your Silverstein quote is innacurate turbo

So you don't agree with most people here that it was a call to pull the firemen?

"I remember getting a call from the commander...so much loss of life...
maybe the best thing to do is "Pull it"...and then the decision was made to pull...and we watched the building fall."


How many different versions of this story are you guys going with?

this one

"I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse."

 

[Bananaman]

I hated teachers who would not own up to mistakes. When I teach and kids tell me I am supposed to know everything, I tell them the truth. I am there to help them learn; that is all. My existence as a teacher, to adapt to their needs and help them learn.

Just wanted to say I liked that quote from Beachnut. It made me feel good.

OK, emotional moment over. Back to the thread.

Bananaman.