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Wrong door shootings.

Your Razor introduced facts not in evidence to spin a narrative. If the facts are laid out standalone, what do they actually describe?

Young male violently attempts to break down door at 2AM. Residents are a woman and man. Man arms himself and fires on intruder, killing him.

Note there is nothing in the reporting about the kid being drunk, nor having said a word to anyone. Nor did the occupants. So how was it determined that the kid was drunk and at the wrong house? They hold a seance or something? Sounds like the police took a guess (presumably because the kid lived nearby, although that hasn't been established well either) and closed the file. From a strictly factual standpoint, I see nothing to indicate that the narrative is true, any more than it just is convenient. No toxology report, no indication of how far away or how similar Yosemite Sam's house was to the kids apartment, nothing.

So what allows your "razor" to allow for so many facts not in evidence? Because the dead kid is a white boy, so he could only have the purest of motivations? "Oh, he's a nice college boy? Make up any excuses for him." Got any more stereotypes you'd like to shovel on to white wash this kid?

As I see it, it is just as plausible that he intended to rape the woman living inside, or the armed man burned him for a bag of coke, or whatever. Other facts besides "the popo say so" would possibly change this, but lacking them, I see no reason to make the intruder the victim of an innocent misunderstanding, especially because he was apparently shot with no reported attempts to even communicate.

Mostly because I wasn't born yesterday and understand that "unprovoked, half-baked home invasion" is a far less likely scenario than a frat boy who drank himself into incoherence and drunk-walked into a deadly scenario. When you hear hoofbeats, don't assume zebras and all that.


What point would there to run a toxicology report? Sounds like our gunslinger isn't being charged, there's no point in digging anymore. The would-be invader is too dead to worry about what exactly their motives were.

Maybe our shooter regret having blood on his hands, even if it's non criminal, and will consider buying a can of pepperspray so that he has an option between doing nothing and sending someone to the morgue.
 
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Mostly because I wasn't born yesterday and understand that "unprovoked, half-baked home invasion" is a far less likely scenario than a frat boy who drank himself into incoherence and drunk-walked into a deadly scenario. When you hear hoofbeats, don't assume zebras and all that.

Zebras indeed. Your zebras are drunk, as I understand it. Please note yet again that even your vaunted reporting does not mention drunkenness. You are making it up based on cliched stereotypes.

I'm not making up anything, nor projecting stereotypes. A 2AM violent door bashing is only that, and nothing more than a violent intruder. His academic status means nothing to me, and doesn't put him above suspicion. Seriously, you sound like his mother dolling out excuses for him.

What point would there to run a toxicology report?

It would keep you from making things up for a start.

Sounds like our gunslinger isn't being charged, there's no point in digging anymore. The would-be invader is too dead to worry about what exactly their motives were.

I'm just gonna stop right here. I invite you and others to consider the above for a moment. We really don't see such faith in killers and callousness put so bluntly that often.
 
I'm just gonna stop right here. I invite you and others to consider the above for a moment. We really don't see such faith in killers and callousness put so bluntly that often.

The deceased state of mind is not really the shooter's concern, as it's unreasonable to expect them to suss it out in the moment.

If there was physical signs of an attempted force entry, it's pretty much an open-and-shut self defense claim. Sucks that our gunslingers resorted to lethal force immediately, but that's their prerogative in such scenarios in our country. A braver person with more respect for human life may have opted for lesser force first, but that's more a moral rather than legal argument.

Unlike the other "wrong door" shootings in this thread, these people actually had the decency to wait for an attempted forced entry before slinging lead, which puts them on much firmer legal and moral ground in my eye.
 
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The deceased state of mind is not really the shooter's concern, as it's unreasonable to expect them to suss it out in the moment.

If there was physical signs of an attempted force entry, it's pretty much an open-and-shut self defense claim. Sucks that our gunslingers resorted to lethal force immediately, but that's their prerogative in such scenarios in our country. A braver person with more respect for human life may have opted for lesser force first, but that's more a moral rather than legal argument.

Unlike the other "wrong door" shootings in this thread, these people actually had the decency to wait for an attempted forced entry before slinging lead, which puts them on much firmer legal and moral ground in my eye.

My point here is that I'm not convinced it was a Wrong Door shooting, and certainly not that the intruder was drunk or any of the other embellishments.

Agreed though that it doesn't make much difference, although it should. Any time a guy kills someone, he should at least stand trial, even if only as a formality. I think that would get people more inclined to show a little responsibility, rather than shoot first and sit smug in the assurance that you are legally killing someone and are gonna get away with it.

I've literally had strangers walk in my front door, yet I've miraculously managed not to kill any of them (all but a single trio of young guys were literally at the Wrong Door), one moving fast with a literal pipe wrench in hand. And regarding our dead young man, I don't have any presumptions about how innocent a college athlete is. I have bad news for posters here: some rape and use drugs. It's fairly well known. But I guess, as you say, there's no point in considering it much further. The punk was doing whatever he was doing, maybe drunk and maybe not, maybe at the wrong door and maybe just where he wanted to be, and residents are allowed to kill without reasonable attempts to mitigate first.
 
I think the legal issue here is the Castle Doctrine not Stand Your Ground. I think the time of the incident -- 2 am -- and the fact the occupants immediately called the police are also factors in the decision not to charge anyone. I have a hunch alcohol was involved but once the 20-year-old broke the door glass and reached inside he was committing unlawful entry. Or about to.

We don't know whether the occupants attempted to ask, 'Who are you? What do you want?' but they may have. But once Donofrio was about to get the door open and force his way into the house I can understand the occupant shooting him. I wish they hadn't but I can understand their reacting that way.

I honestly can't, killing somebody in that way is completely alien to me.
 
My point here is that I'm not convinced it was a Wrong Door shooting, and certainly not that the intruder was drunk or any of the other embellishments.

Agreed though that it doesn't make much difference, although it should. Any time a guy kills someone, he should at least stand trial, even if only as a formality. I think that would get people more inclined to show a little responsibility, rather than shoot first and sit smug in the assurance that you are legally killing someone and are gonna get away with it.

I've literally had strangers walk in my front door, yet I've miraculously managed not to kill any of them (all but a single trio of young guys were literally at the Wrong Door), one moving fast with a literal pipe wrench in hand. And regarding our dead young man, I don't have any presumptions about how innocent a college athlete is. I have bad news for posters here: some rape and use drugs. It's fairly well known. But I guess, as you say, there's no point in considering it much further. The punk was doing whatever he was doing, maybe drunk and maybe not, maybe at the wrong door and maybe just where he wanted to be, and residents are allowed to kill without reasonable attempts to mitigate first.

What do you think is the most likely explanation.

Sure, it's possible the police are misrepresenting things when they claim they suspect it was as "wrong door" scenario, or maybe the shooters are omitting some prior conflict with their neighbor that might support the idea that this a targeted attack rather than misfortune. Anything is possible I suppose, but not all scenarios are equally likely.

You seem really hung up on the whole "college" thing, but I'm assuming a drunk more because it's a 20 year old at 2 am. People this age, college going or not, have a well earned reputation for binge drinking.
 
What do you think is the most likely explanation.

"Insufficient data for a meaningful conclusion".

Seriously, man. Any likelihood is entirely made up and requires junk thrown in to suit a particular narrative. You're a big fan of statistical evidence, yes? Do you have anything to suggest that 20 year olds have a demonstrable inclination to get drunk and bumble up to the wrong house, thinking it's theirs, and smash in the door? I'll bet I could provide more evidence of 20 year olds that smash their way into properties that are ruled deliberate invasions/burglaries. Wanna take the bet? No, I didn't think so. The most likely scenario, given the facts, is deliberate invasion, unless you spin a story you like better

Sure, it's possible the police are misrepresenting things when they claim they suspect it was as "wrong door" scenario, or maybe the shooters are omitting some prior conflict with their neighbor that might support the idea that this a targeted attack rather than misfortune. Anything is possible I suppose, but not all scenarios are equally likely.

Exactly. Given the facts, there's no reason to weigh silly violent drunky boy over deliberate home invader.

Be honest, here, even though I'm deliberately throwing gas on the fire: if Donofrio was black and not a frat boy, how hard would it be to accept that he was a burglar? People don't want to accept that white jock Nicky-boy could have been a violent punk. I have no reason to rule it out. You shouldn't either.

You seem really hung up on the whole "college" thing,

No I'm nott. It's in the freaking headline and first line of the article and under captions of his innocent pics. It's not me hung up on that irrelevant detail. I'm mocking those who are whispering between the lines that this nice white boy must just have made a mistake. I find it obnoxious.

but I'm assuming a drunk more because it's a 20 year old at 2 am. People this age, college going or not, have a well earned reputation for binge drinking.

Some do. Most don't. Again, given the available facts, why do you say he must have been drunk (interesting that you wouldn't speculate harder drugs. Just a few innocent brewskis, right?). But you have a long road to get from "some 20 yr olds binge drink" to "20 yo who lives down tbe block (no, they weren't next door neighbors) alone at 2AM smashed through the door of a strangers house, who happens to be a primed-and-ready no-questions-asked killer, therefore the kid must have been blackout drunk and just made a mistake. I mean, look at those cheekums!"
 
"Insufficient data for a meaningful conclusion".

Seriously, man. Any likelihood is entirely made up and requires junk thrown in to suit a particular narrative. You're a big fan of statistical evidence, yes? Do you have anything to suggest that 20 year olds have a demonstrable inclination to get drunk and bumble up to the wrong house, thinking it's theirs, and smash in the door? I'll bet I could provide more evidence of 20 year olds that smash their way into properties that are ruled deliberate invasions/burglaries. Wanna take the bet? No, I didn't think so. The most likely scenario, given the facts, is deliberate invasion, unless you spin a story you like better

Burglaries are not home invasions, and I would take the bet that drunks wandering someplace they don't belong happens far more often than home invasions. To be unskeptical for a moment, I've seen far more examples of lost and aggressive drunks in my life (>0) than I have seen home invasions (0). Home invasion is in fact a pretty rare crime, while drunken trespass is not.



Be honest, here, even though I'm deliberately throwing gas on the fire: if Donofrio was black and not a frat boy, how hard would it be to accept that he was a burglar? People don't want to accept that white jock Nicky-boy could have been a violent punk. I have no reason to rule it out. You shouldn't either.

If he was black and also lived on that street and there was seemingly no obvious explanation for this baffling behavior besides the obvious, I don't see why anyone would assume criminal intent other than racism.

It really wouldn't make sense unless you assumed some extreme for of intoxication of some sort or another, because this doesn't look like a particularly competent attempt at home invasion or burglary.

Have you considered that everyone else can simply see the most likely explanation that you for some reason chose to believe is unlikely?


No I'm nott. It's in the freaking headline and first line of the article and under captions of his innocent pics. It's not me hung up on that irrelevant detail. I'm mocking those who are whispering between the lines that this nice white boy must just have made a mistake. I find it obnoxious.

They're posting sentimental pics because it's a tragic way to die, even if it's ultimately his fault for presumably getting so extremely drunk.



Some do. Most don't. Again, given the available facts, why do you say he must have been drunk (interesting that you wouldn't speculate harder drugs. Just a few innocent brewskis, right?). But you have a long road to get from "some 20 yr olds binge drink" to "20 yo who lives down tbe block (no, they weren't next door neighbors) alone at 2AM smashed through the door of a strangers house, who happens to be a primed-and-ready no-questions-asked killer, therefore the kid must have been blackout drunk and just made a mistake. I mean, look at those cheekums!"

Mostly because alcohol is probably the most commonly used intoxicant in this country, and those in close second generally don't cause this pattern kind of behavior. This combination of disorientation, poor decision making, and belligerence smacks of booze.

I suppose when the details come out (if there is ever any further reporting) to confirm that this guy who was very likely black out drunk was in fact black out drunk, you can say that was luck on my part, or you can perhaps consider why you decided this was a hill worthy of dying on.
 
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Have you considered that everyone else can simply see the most likely explanation that you for some reason chose to believe is unlikely?

It would be helpful if you actually read the posts you are so quick to criticize. My position is the same as it has been since my first posting. There is no reason to support the narrative over any other explanation, given the meager facts. Police are known to close a case based on "witness reporting", which in this case is the killer and his honey. Did you question Zimmerman's version of events? I'll bet you questioned Zimmerman's version of events.

They're posting sentimental pics because it's a tragic way to die, even if it's ultimately his fault for presumably getting so extremely drunk.

Again with embellishing the reporting out of thin air.

Mostly because alcohol is probably the most commonly used intoxicant in this country, and those in close second generally don't cause this pattern kind of behavior. This combination of disorientation, poor decision making, and belligerence smacks of booze.

Smacks of a lot of other drugs, too. Also, you've got him disoriented now. No such evidence, like the brewskis.

From the reporting, there is no mention whatsoever, from any outlet, that he was disoriented and drunk. You made that up. The reporting suggests he simply went to the wrong door and violently attempted to force entry. That's it. The rest is your apparently active imagination with world building.

I suppose when the details come out (if there is ever any further reporting) to confirm that this guy who was very likely black out drunk was in fact black out drunk, you can say that was luck on my part, or you can perhaps consider why you decided this was a hill worthy of dying on.

Again, it would be productive if you actually read the posts you are so quick to criticize. I bet on the first posting on this topic that he would be either high as a kite or a history of violence or both. Where I object is the attempt to whitewash him into a little suds swilling confused boy. That's spinning a yarn based on predispositions.
 
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"Insufficient data for a meaningful conclusion".

Seriously, man. Any likelihood is entirely made up and requires junk thrown in to suit a particular narrative. You're a big fan of statistical evidence, yes? Do you have anything to suggest that 20 year olds have a demonstrable inclination to get drunk and bumble up to the wrong house, thinking it's theirs, and smash in the door? I'll bet I could provide more evidence of 20 year olds that smash their way into properties that are ruled deliberate invasions/burglaries. Wanna take the bet? No, I didn't think so. The most likely scenario, given the facts, is deliberate invasion, unless you spin a story you like better



Exactly. Given the facts, there's no reason to weigh silly violent drunky boy over deliberate home invader.

Be honest, here, even though I'm deliberately throwing gas on the fire: if Donofrio was black and not a frat boy, how hard would it be to accept that he was a burglar? People don't want to accept that white jock Nicky-boy could have been a violent punk. I have no reason to rule it out. You shouldn't either.



No I'm nott. It's in the freaking headline and first line of the article and under captions of his innocent pics. It's not me hung up on that irrelevant detail. I'm mocking those who are whispering between the lines that this nice white boy must just have made a mistake. I find it obnoxious.



Some do. Most don't. Again, given the available facts, why do you say he must have been drunk (interesting that you wouldn't speculate harder drugs. Just a few innocent brewskis, right?). But you have a long road to get from "some 20 yr olds binge drink" to "20 yo who lives down tbe block (no, they weren't next door neighbors) alone at 2AM smashed through the door of a strangers house, who happens to be a primed-and-ready no-questions-asked killer, therefore the kid must have been blackout drunk and just made a mistake. I mean, look at those cheekums!"

The problem with your convoluted theory is that it makes no sense at all. As we have pointed out to you, drunk is by far the most likely explanation, The fact that that detail is left out by the official statement is simply to protect the reputation of the deceased, so that he isn't dragged through the mud post mortem. The victim's family certainly doesn't want the world to know he was drunk. The shooter certainly doesn't want people to know he was drunk cause that just gives a (societally accepted) excuse to his 'violent' entry. So: Win-Win!

On the other hand, *we* are not whispering about him accidentally entering the building--the authorities are stating that conclusion! If the entry was not accidental, it would be in the interest of some third party--either the friends of the deceased or more likely the shooter or his supporters--to bring that fact to light. There is *nothing* to prevent them from going to the press and telling them their opinion! So why haven't they? Could it be becuase this was a simple case of a drunk trying to get in the wrong house by accident?
 
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It would be helpful if you actually read the posts you are so quick to criticize. My position is the same as it has been since my first posting. There is no reason to support the narrative over any other explanation, given the meager facts. Police are known to close a case based on "witness reporting", which in this case is the killer and his honey. Did you question Zimmerman's version of events? I'll bet you questioned Zimmerman's version of events.



Again with embellishing the reporting out of thin air.



Smacks of a lot of other drugs, too. Also, you've got him disoriented now. No such evidence, like the brewskis.

From the reporting, there is no mention whatsoever, from any outlet, that he was disoriented and drunk. You made that up. The reporting suggests he simply went to the wrong door and violently attempted to force entry. That's it. The rest is your apparently active imagination with world building.



Again, it would be productive if you actually read the posts you are so quick to criticize. I bet on the first posting on this topic that he would be either high as a kite or a history of violence or both. Where I object is the attempt to whitewash him into a little suds swilling confused boy. That's spinning a yarn based on predispositions.

Well of course we are speculating and of course we are using circumstantial evidence in our conclusion--but there is nothing wrong with that, and people have been sent to jail for life on nothing more than circumstantial evidence!
It simply comes down to what is the most likely scenario. At 2am, young student who belong fraternity goes to some other residence, get upset and tries to break in. Those are the facts. The only thing I/we assume is that he was drunk. As I just explained in my previous response, that is by far the most likely explanation for his mistake (and the official statement is just that: it was a *mistake*) than some convoluted idea that he was really in a drug deal or something with the shooter....
 
The problem with your convoluted theory

<snipped for focus>

"Convoluted"? I'm striping away your add-ons, taking your convoluted mess away. Don't poison the well. It's not me that's adding details to make a palatable tale of tragedy.

Serious question: if the story didn't mention him being a nice college boy, would you have the same "most likely" explanation? When stories of people breaking into homes appear in other threads, do you insist it must have all been a big misunderstanding and no one was really trying to break in anywhere? Come on, honestly now.

And as I've said since the beginning, I am not advocating this. I'm tossing it up as a counterpoint scenario that also fits the facts, but without gratuitous embellishment. Just as-is, it's evidence-weak and narrative strong. You might note I make similar arguments all the time here. I'm not pushing a version; I'm asking others why they are pushing one,with no evidence other than imagination.

And yes, the poor confused drunk frat boy is wholly imaginary, not likely. The story reads that he went up to the wrong door, not a word about intoxication. Couldn't this simply be going to the wrong house? I mean, school started two days prior. He was literally brand new on the block, and from my personal experience living in a beach town,people often walk into wrong houses that they have rented. So I see no reason whatsoever to assume drunkenness. "Stupid" suffices without embellishments.

is that it makes no sense at all. As we have pointed out to you, drunk is by far the most likely explanation, The fact that that detail is left out by the official statement is simply to protect the reputation of the deceased, so that he isn't dragged through the mud post mortem. The victim's family certainly doesn't want the world to know he was drunk. The shooter certainly doesn't want people to know he was drunk cause that just gives a (societally accepted) excuse to his 'violent' entry. So: Win-Win!

Only if you genuinely don't give a **** about dead college students. Otherwise, such a tragedy should call for a campus-wide and loud public awareness campaign within the school about responsible underage binge-drinking, as you say. With Donofrio as a drunk student, it's a cautionary and tragic tale. Without drinking, as you suggest, he was stupid and violent stone cold sober.

Win-win, you say? :p
 
I can't figure out is Thermal is making an argument against Occam's razor being a useful way to deal with uncertainty, or whether he doesn't agree that the most obvious unestablished factor here that explains the whole incident is extreme drunkenness on behalf of the deceased.

Both strike me as silly, but in very different ways.
 
I can't figure out is Thermal is making an argument against Occam's razor being a useful way to deal with uncertainty, or whether he doesn't agree that the most obvious unestablished factor here that explains the whole incident is extreme drunkenness on behalf of the deceased.

Both strike me as silly, but in very different ways.

Completely off topic, but I would generally agree that Occam's Razor is indeed pretty useless in a thread like this. The razor is for people who are not interested in truth, but in closure. Wrap it up in a neat little package, as the police like to do. Actual Truth doesn't care if it is simple or complex, and almost anything involving people is a-gonna get complex.

If you need to put stuff in neat little boxes and not worry if they are true or not, the razor is handy. If you care, even a little, about actual truth, take a leaf from Kant's book and hold off your conclusions till you have adequate info, baby.
 
...But once Donofrio was about to get the door open and force his way into the house I can understand the occupant shooting him. I wish they hadn't but I can understand their reacting that way.

I honestly can't, killing somebody in that way is completely alien to me.


Killing someone that way is alien to me as well. But I do understand the occupant of the house -- at two o'clock in the morning -- deciding to use deadly force to stop someone about to forcibly enter their home. I wouldn't -- I couldn't; I don't own a gun -- but I'm sure I would have been terrified as to what was about to happen. For someone who does own a gun, someone forcing their way into their home at 2 am, that would be the time to use it. :(
 
Killing someone that way is alien to me as well. But I do understand the occupant of the house -- at two o'clock in the morning -- deciding to use deadly force to stop someone about to forcibly enter their home. I wouldn't -- I couldn't; I don't own a gun -- but I'm sure I would have been terrified as to what was about to happen. For someone who does own a gun, someone forcing their way into their home at 2 am, that would be the time to use it. :(

Not to derail too much, but it's my firm position that anyone who keeps a gun around the home for self defense purposes should probably also keep a can of pepperspray.

People often make these risk assessments based more of fearful flights of fantasy rather than any sober analysis of what risks are actually most likely, and seems to me odds are pretty good you're more likely to be in a situation where non-lethal force is most appropriate than one where firing a gun is the ideal response.

Legally it's pretty unambiguous that you have the green light to shoot anyone trying to force the door in and I don't really have any objection to that, but if this were me I'd really be regretting not trying something a little less permanent first.
 
I can't figure out is Thermal is making an argument against Occam's razor being a useful way to deal with uncertainty, or whether he doesn't agree that the most obvious unestablished factor here that explains the whole incident is extreme drunkenness on behalf of the deceased.

Both strike me as silly, but in very different ways.

The misuse of Occam's Razor here is really bugging me, and I considered starting another thread to discuss it, but I'll just wrap it up below.

Occam's Razor, as the adults here know, does not say that the simplest solution is the best/most likely one. That would be stupid. What it says (going back to my Intro to Phil class) is that the one that requires the least amount of assumptions is probably better. There's a major difference there that gets by a lot of people.

For our purposes, the hoofbeats/horses/zebras analogy is valid. Unless you are in the African savannah/a cicrus/the zoo, the chances of coming across a zebra are basically non-existent, making it unresaonable to assume. Let's call that the Zebra Standard.

So in the Tragic Tale of the Dead Frat Boy, we have three main scenarios:

1.as reported, Donofrio simply goes to the wrong door and attempts to break in.
2. Donofrio attempts to illegally break in to a residence down the road from him (removing assumed credibility of police explanation, lacking demonstrated evidence). His reasons could be anything, love triangle, drug deal, whatever, doesn't matter in the slightest. Don't know, don't care, if it was intentional.
3. Donofrio was drunk. That conveniently handwaves away any reasonable person standards, making him essentially the proverbial raging lunatic. But here comes the other assumptions that follow from that:

a). Donofrio, a college basketball player with NBA aspirations, was an underage drug abuser apparently planning to go to practice the next day hung over, because that's what athletes do on school nights . No witnesses of this binge drinking are reported, so we either assume he was alone or assume a conspiracy of silence among partygoers who wouldn't tweet or Insta about it, as kids are well known to do.
b). Donofrio drank himself to the point of extreme disorientation, yet still upright and coordinated enough to work out violently breaking down the door. That's a tight window.
c). Donofrio, unlike most people, becomes extremely physically violent when drunk. Most people, drunk to the point of not knowing where they are, stumble around and fall, usually passing out. D remained fairly coordinated and aggressive, and able to focus on door destruction to gain entry, while, lest we forget, not actually knowing where he is or realizing it was wrong to destroy other people's property, even if he thought it was his rental.
d). Police and media did not report any of this, which basically requires another conspiracy to withhold relevant facts and make Donofrio look like a sober violent nitwit, as if that's an improvement over being drunk.

All pass the Zebra Standard, as there are no outlandishly unlikely scenarios presented. Everything, from drunken violent frat boy to drug deal gone bad are in the realm of common experience.

That's the major assumptions, we could break down into more. Note that the backgound motivations are not important in any of them (why he got drunk is no more relevant than why he would attempt illegal entry). Scenario 1 requires no assumptions. Scenario 2 requires one, that police reporting is less than defintive and defers to the killer's explanation. Scenario 3 requires multiple assumptions, although some of you didn't realize that. How's y'all's Razor doing?
 
Killing someone that way is alien to me as well. But I do understand the occupant of the house -- at two o'clock in the morning -- deciding to use deadly force to stop someone about to forcibly enter their home. I wouldn't -- I couldn't; I don't own a gun -- but I'm sure I would have been terrified as to what was about to happen. For someone who does own a gun, someone forcing their way into their home at 2 am, that would be the time to use it. :(

Yea but 50/50 they are cops at the wrong address
 
"Convoluted"? I'm striping away your add-ons, taking your convoluted mess away. Don't poison the well. It's not me that's adding details to make a palatable tale of tragedy.

Well of course it's you--you added the idea that he had a violent past and that he may have been there intentionally. Completely unsupported by anything.

Serious question: if the story didn't mention him being a nice college boy, would you have the same "most likely" explanation? When stories of people breaking into homes appear in other threads, do you insist it must have all been a big misunderstanding and no one was really trying to break in anywhere? Come on, honestly now.

No...you are missing all of the known details of the case, plus you seem to be missing experience in the real world. 1)It was 2 am 2)It was a known time for many parties 3)He was in a fraternity. As to #3, I was quickly able to find a photo on a social media page that showed the deceased with beer in hand, standing next to his frat brothers....

And as I've said since the beginning, I am not advocating this. I'm tossing it up as a counterpoint scenario that also fits the facts, but without gratuitous embellishment. Just as-is, it's evidence-weak and narrative strong. You might note I make similar arguments all the time here. I'm not pushing a version; I'm asking others why they are pushing one,with no evidence other than imagination.
No, it's an obvious conclusion, the same one virtually everyone except you has come to oof-the-record. Don't believe me--look at any and every discussion online about this case. The commentators almost universally come to the same conclusion: "He was probably drunk"

And yes, the poor confused drunk frat boy is wholly imaginary, not likely. The story reads that he went up to the wrong door, not a word about intoxication. Couldn't this simply be going to the wrong house? I mean, school started two days prior. He was literally brand new on the block, and from my personal experience living in a beach town,people often walk into wrong houses that they have rented. So I see no reason whatsoever to assume drunkenness. "Stupid" suffices without embellishments.

In case you hadn't heard or experienced, being drunk makes you significantly more likely to do stupid things!

Only if you genuinely don't give a **** about dead college students. Otherwise, such a tragedy should call for a campus-wide and loud public awareness campaign within the school about responsible underage binge-drinking, as you say. With Donofrio as a drunk student, it's a cautionary and tragic tale. Without drinking, as you suggest, he was stupid and violent stone cold sober.

Win-win, you say? :p

This really is amusing...yeah sure, I bet the campus is just itching to put out an announcement condemning their entire school for being a bunch of drunks. :rolleyes:
 
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Some interesting details in this fox story about the decision not to prosecute:

Fox61

The video shows the front of the house, with the broken window pane. Interestingly, it is the center panel, not a side or corner panel--seems like a poor choice to break in order to reach a handle.
Also, the end of the video mentions a toxicology report to follow...we shall see! :)
 

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