Wrong door shootings.

[Myriad]

That is the most harassing, invasive thing I've ever heard. Did you draw straws for who did the cavity searches?

Harassing landlords by making sure their units are properly maintained and up to code?

 

[Thermal]

Harassing landlords by making sure their units are properly maintained and up to code?

Annually, and for everyone, say, around lease renewal signing? No problem. A "random representative" spot check? That's some bull **** right there.

In NJ, tenants have rights to "quiet enjoyment" of a leased premises. 48 hours for a demanded random cell inspection that is supposed to, what, be representative of your neighbors? No way.

I just came back from being out of town for a while. Were I a renter, and I found out on my return that the landlord and some random guy/s were in my apartment without my opportunity to be there, imma be getting litigious.

ETA: for a non emergency reason, I mean

 

[Thermal]

I did hundreds of firearms licences when I was a cop. It is easy, with background checks, to identify those unfit to have a gun. There have been occasional mass shootings and other crimes in the UK by registered firearms holders, but they are very rare, such that the licensing system has a 99% plus accuracy at ensuring only suitable people can get a gun. That must make it one of the most accurate licensing systems anywhere in the world.

I am in favor of licensing, but I don't see where the clairvoyance comes in to determine who will use the firearms responsibly in the future.

In my US State, I got my long gun card (firearms ID purchaser card) at 18 years old. No, I had no criminal record at the time. And no, there would have been nothing in my history at that time to indicate that I would be a good or bad future owner.

 

[Nessie]

I am in favor of licensing, but I don't see where the clairvoyance comes in to determine who will use the firearms responsibly in the future.

In my US State, I got my long gun card (firearms ID purchaser card) at 18 years old. No, I had no criminal record at the time. And no, there would have been nothing in my history at that time to indicate that I would be a good or bad future owner.

The two referees who vouch for a person character are strong indicators of suitability. Plus a lack of previous convictions, plus systems checks to see if there have even been any calls to a person's address, if there is any intelligence recorded about them, or any concerns over welfare from the vulnerable person's database. The home visit and just speaking to the applicant also helps.

Add all that together and it is a system that is very accurate.

 

[dirtywick]

if anyone came to my door to tell me to renew my firearms license i'd shoot them. and now i know you guys stand off to the side.

 

[Thermal]

The two referees who vouch for a person character are strong indicators of suitability.

Referees? Do you mean trained and accredited psychologists, or a couple of fine local fellas that you think are ok?

Plus a lack of previous convictions, plus systems checks to see if there have even been any calls to a person's address, if there is any intelligence recorded about them, or any concerns over welfare from the vulnerable person's database.

Ok, that can weed out obvious career criminals. It could also be Scarlet Lettering someone who started out rough and has since cleaned their act up.

{ETA: or DQ someone with a paranoid neighbor who needlessly called the police frequently}

The home visit and just speaking to the applicant also helps.

Sure, if you know what you are looking for, beyond a subjective gut impression.

Add all that together and it is a system that is very accurate.

Well, it surely is prohibitive of a lot of possibly entirely harmless people getting a license. As far as accuracy goes, I don't see any actual credible psychological evaluation in there anywhere. It's better than nothing, sure, agreed. I'd like to see someone involved that actually knows something about mental health evaluation beyond their feelings, though.

 

[Planigale]

Good idea on principle, but it wouldn't stop the psychopath contingent. How do you identify a ticking bomb loon on a gun application?

Question 8: Do you now, or have you ever, planned on killing random people under flimsy pretexts of pissing-your-pants fear?

Surprisingly many people will answer that sort of question honestly. In psychiatric assessments one asks about intentions to harm, oneself or others. It is surprising how often people will tell you the truth. So include that sort of question.

Have you ever thought about ending your life? Have you made plans to do so?


Have you thought about harming or hurting other people? Have you made plans to do so?

 

[Vixen]

I am stunned at the level of gun violence in the USA. There is high ownership of guns here in Finland yet the idea of someone getting shot for turning in someone's driveway or ringing the door bell seems preposterous to me.

 

[Thermal]

Surprisingly many people will answer that sort of question honestly. In psychiatric assessments one asks about intentions to harm, oneself or others. It is surprising how often people will tell you the truth. So include that sort of question.

Have you ever thought about ending your life? Have you made plans to do so?


Have you thought about harming or hurting other people? Have you made plans to do so?

Truth be told, I'd DQ anyone who answered "no" to those questions as being intentionally deceptive (except maybe for making plans to end your life, but even there I've heard estimates as high as half the population who made one level or another of plans to do so).

I mean, really? Thought about harming or hurting someone? Show me someone who hasn't.

ETA: or better yet, show me someone who could claim to answer "no", and I'll show you a liar or the most incredible photographic memory ever.

 

[shemp]

The topic brought up an issue from my own life, a difficult story for me to tell.

Content warning: harm to a pet

Living in Florida I was well aware of the stories of shooting at strangers at the door. My roommate and I didn't know the neighbors too well. We'd never spoken to them, but noticed that there were often loud arguments and that the husband was clearly drunk a lot. Mostly we just steered clear.

The neighbor's house had two things that were the source of trouble on this occasion: a backyard above-ground pool, and a small dog. We worked late shift, so it was common for us to be outside chatting quietly late at night while my roommate smoked. Must have been about 2 in the morning, we faintly heard sounds of splashing in the pool. Naturally worried that their pet was having a mishap, we discussed what to do. We did not feel comfortable pounding on their door at 2AM. So instead we took what we thought was a responsible action, phoning the police emergency line.

They took the report, and we waited. Growing increasingly uneasy as the splashing sounds continued. We tried calling again. Apparently there was a large fight elsewhere in the neighborhood that was tying up most police resources. By the time a squad car finally arrived to alert the homeowners, it was too late.

I heard the splashing stop before the police could arrive. I heard her scream in grief when she found out her pet didn't make it. That will haunt me forever. Because we were too scared of our neighbors to knock on a door for an emergency in the middle of the night. I've carried guilt for that ever since.

Years later the loudmouth drunk husband was gone and I was on better terms with the same neighbor. So things eventually smoothed over, but I remember anyway.

I had something similar happen when I was living in an apartment and, after midnight, noticed that a couple on a lower floor had left their parakeet out on their balcony in its cage on a cold night. Not like your situation of course. I went to the lobby and buzzed them, and when the husband answered on the intercom, I told him he'd left the bird out. He was thankful and quickly brought it in. Fortunately, no guns were involved. And I suppose we could say that I gave him the bird!

 

[Horatius]

I am stunned at the level of gun violence in the USA. There is high ownership of guns here in Finland yet the idea of someone getting shot for turning in someone's driveway or ringing the door bell seems preposterous to me.

Living next door in Canada, we're kind of stunned as well. We have a lot of guns as well, but the culture of casual use of guns is completely different.

The issue isn't that Americans have so many guns (although that doesn't help), it's that they're so willing to use them, and that they go out of their way to make sure they have them available everywhere they go. In Canada, safe storage laws and laws against carrying in public makes having a gun on you much less common.

 

[Doubt]

It's not the only idiotically crazy or crazily idiotic aspect of these cases, but if the shooter is so terrified of someone ringing the doorbell why the hell do they open the door?

If they are armed they think the gun makes them safer. This happens even though they put themselves in a kill zone where they have to take the action of opening the door while the other person is already set for them to do that.

Short version: Bad judgement aided by a faith in their gun.

 

[Brainster]

Annually, and for everyone, say, around lease renewal signing? No problem. A "random representative" spot check? That's some bull **** right there.

In NJ, tenants have rights to "quiet enjoyment" of a leased premises. 48 hours for a demanded random cell inspection that is supposed to, what, be representative of your neighbors? No way.

I just came back from being out of town for a while. Were I a renter, and I found out on my return that the landlord and some random guy/s were in my apartment without my opportunity to be there, imma be getting litigious.

ETA: for a non emergency reason, I mean

I'm guessing you haven't checked NJ state law?

Yes the tenant has the right of quiet enjoyment, but:

Pursuant to State regulations governing the maintenance of multiple dwellings, N.J.A.C. 5:10-1.1 et seq., the Bureau of Housing Inspection or an authorized representative has the authority to enter and inspect at any reasonable times any multiple dwelling units. A multiple dwelling is a building with three or more independent dwelling units. It is the duty of the landlord to notify the tenant when the Bureau of Housing Inspection has scheduled the property for an inspection.
The same regulations provide that upon reasonable notification tenants must give the landlord and the landlord’s employees access to the dwelling unit for the purpose of inspection and maintenance. Reasonable notification is normally one day. However, in the case of safety or structural emergencies immediate access shall be granted.

So in NJ they require less notice than they do in AZ.

Kind of amused that people seem to think this was some sort of Gestapo operation. I was mostly looking for seriously damaged units, especially ones where appliances had been removed.

I did see some amazing things--one unit had a motorcycle being disassembled/repaired in a living room where there were what appeared to be chicken feathers six inches deep.

 

[bruto]

I'm sure it will get it's 15 minutes, but the story is about random crazy guy shooting at someone on his property. Not much more to roll with. Why was he crazy? Was he always crazy, or did something make him choose craziness? There's no legs here.

I think that's partially what drives the racially motivated crimes to the front page for longer stretches. Racism seems more like a choice, that drives otherwise normal people to murderous extremes. The guy with the Confederate flag on his pickup in line next to you at the grocery store might be the murderer under your nose, more so than the weirdo hermit bunkering in his darkened house.

Surprisingly it didn't get into today's paper, but it was on the radio. The man was apparently a local contractor who claims he was scared when cars came up the driveway, and though they (if more than one) were turning around, he shot at them anyway. Not, it seems a random crazy guy. That's what's so unnerving. Neighbors said he was a very normal, nice sort of guy...living off the road in a little backwater town where everyone gets lost all the time, and where 99 percent of the population of the world would flee to for safety if they could, but paranoid is paranoid, castle castle bang bang.

The stupidity of the world is metastasizing.

 

[smartcooky]

Its the "shoot first and ask questions later" mentality, which was predominant in the Old West, and still prevails today among the "muh-gunz" community of 'Murica.

 

[arthwollipot]

Unless you Dragon Shout through the door.

Fus ro door!

I am stunned at the level of gun violence in the USA. There is high ownership of guns here in Finland yet the idea of someone getting shot for turning in someone's driveway or ringing the door bell seems preposterous to me.

Most other places, too.

 

[a_unique_person]

Surprisingly many people will answer that sort of question honestly. In psychiatric assessments one asks about intentions to harm, oneself or others. It is surprising how often people will tell you the truth. So include that sort of question.



Have you ever thought about ending your life? Have you made plans to do so?





Have you thought about harming or hurting other people? Have you made plans to do so?

Have you ever applied for a job at assassin.com?

 

[a_unique_person]

This just a day ago,

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kaylin-gillis-new-york-killed-wrong-address-kevin-monahan/

Twisty county roads and went up the wrong driveway. Killed as they were leaving.

 

[crescent]

Howzabout wrong car door?

Young woman being dropped of by her car pool gets in the wrong car by mistake. Apologizes, gets out, gets back in her own car. Then the guy shoots. Gets her and three other people in the car.

Man arrested after 2 Woodlands Elite cheerleaders were shot outside HEB near Austin, police say

Just after midnight, cheerleader Heather Roth said she got out of her friend's car and opened the door to a vehicle she believed to be her own in the H-E-B parking lot.

Roth said there was a man sitting in the passenger seat, so she initially panicked, thinking a stranger was inside her car, and got back into her friend's vehicle.

When she noticed the man approach their vehicle, she said she rolled down the window to apologize, telling him she thought it was her car. Roth said the man threw up his hands, pulled out a gun, and started shooting.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

I am in favor of licensing, but I don't see where the clairvoyance comes in to determine who will use the firearms responsibly in the future.

In my US State, I got my long gun card (firearms ID purchaser card) at 18 years old. No, I had no criminal record at the time. And no, there would have been nothing in my history at that time to indicate that I would be a good or bad future owner.

By that argument we also cannot determine who can use a car responsibly in the future. So should we do away with drivers licenses, checkups and the like?