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Wrong door shootings.

All guns should require a permit and self-defense training every 10 years.

Good idea on principle, but it wouldn't stop the psychopath contingent. How do you identify a ticking bomb loon on a gun application?

Question 8: Do you now, or have you ever, planned on killing random people under flimsy pretexts of pissing-your-pants fear?
 
Good idea on principle, but it wouldn't stop the psychopath contingent. How do you identify a ticking bomb loon on a gun application?

Question 8: Do you now, or have you ever, planned on killing random people under flimsy pretexts of pissing-your-pants fear?

We cannot stop every criminal act with a gun.
 
And fear does appear to part of the problem:

"The 84-year-old white man who shot 16-year-old Ralph Yarl said he was "scared to death" before opening fire, according to a probable cause statement." https://www.newsweek.com/andrew-lester-scared-ralph-yarl-before-shooting-him-1795040

If I were scared of someone knocking on my door I'd not only not open it to them, I'd quietly place additional obstacles behind it then retreat through my house to a spot from which I could fight or fly or hide, bearing with me my phone which with to summon help as well as a (makeshift) weapon. Even if one's motivations are irrational one's actions shouldn't be-- it's possible an old man was pointlessly terrified but if he is he should at least act as though he believes in his own fear. Forcing a confrontation after removing defenses is not a fear response at all.
 
We cannot stop every criminal act with a gun.

Nor can we stop every criminal act with a permit form or self defense course.

You could slow down a law abiding psycho with a permit requirement, maybe. But that's solidly only in the deterrent department, unless the black market abruptly vanishes.
 
Nor can we stop every criminal act with a permit form or self defense course.

You could slow down a law abiding psycho with a permit requirement, maybe. But that's solidly only in the deterrent department, unless the black market abruptly vanishes.

We also cant ban all gun possession. Or all knife possession. Or all baseball bat possession.
 
It's not the only idiotically crazy or crazily idiotic aspect of these cases, but if the shooter is so terrified of someone ringing the doorbell why the hell do they open the door?

I wonder why they would even have a doorbell? Do they think burglars are courteous enough to announce their arrival by ringing the doorbell?
 
I wonder why they would even have a doorbell? Do they think burglars are courteous enough to announce their arrival by ringing the doorbell?

I believe the paranoid fantasy is that by ringing the doorbell the burglar is testing to see if anyone's home. That's what some people thought of wrong number phone calls in the days of landline phones.
 
I assume that a white woman being shot and killed in similar circumstances is less newsworthy because she is just a woman?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65307556

ETA I like this quote.
Give it little time. It already turned up in another thread here, and it's on the front page of the AP website, so it's not as if it's ignored. I'll be surprised if it isn't in today's paper, which hasn't come yet. This was not far from here.
 
We also cant ban all gun possession. Or all knife possession. Or all baseball bat possession.

When you run across the next mass school murder with knives, let me know. Or when 30,000 body bags per year are filled with baseball bat crushed skulls.

Or even in these OP stories, do you think someone was going to throw a baseball bat at the girl in a car in a driveway and kill her? That's some Hawkeye level ****, right there.
 
I used to do inspections of apartment complexes, and was required to inspect a random, representative sample of the units (after having the manager give the required 48 hours notice). The manager would knock on the door and unlock it and announce him/herself. We were trained; don't stand in front of the door and definitely don't stand in front of a window next to the door.
 
I used to do inspections of apartment complexes, and was required to inspect a random, representative sample of the units (after having the manager give the required 48 hours notice). The manager would knock on the door and unlock it and announce him/herself. We were trained; don't stand in front of the door and definitely don't stand in front of a window next to the door.

I presume you meant as part of the military in somewhere like a village in Afghanistan?
 
I used to do inspections of apartment complexes, and was required to inspect a random, representative sample of the units (after having the manager give the required 48 hours notice). The manager would knock on the door and unlock it and announce him/herself. We were trained; don't stand in front of the door and definitely don't stand in front of a window next to the door.

...as a reasonable person I find hiding from view much more suspicious than not doing so!
 
Give it little time. It already turned up in another thread here, and it's on the front page of the AP website, so it's not as if it's ignored. I'll be surprised if it isn't in today's paper, which hasn't come yet. This was not far from here.

I'm sure it will get it's 15 minutes, but the story is about random crazy guy shooting at someone on his property. Not much more to roll with. Why was he crazy? Was he always crazy, or did something make him choose craziness? There's no legs here.

I think that's partially what drives the racially motivated crimes to the front page for longer stretches. Racism seems more like a choice, that drives otherwise normal people to murderous extremes. The guy with the Confederate flag on his pickup in line next to you at the grocery store might be the murderer under your nose, more so than the weirdo hermit bunkering in his darkened house.
 
I used to do inspections of apartment complexes, and was required to inspect a random, representative sample of the units (after having the manager give the required 48 hours notice). The manager would knock on the door and unlock it and announce him/herself. We were trained; don't stand in front of the door and definitely don't stand in front of a window next to the door.

That is the most harassing, invasive thing I've ever heard. Did you draw straws for who did the cavity searches?
 
I believe the paranoid fantasy is that by ringing the doorbell the burglar is testing to see if anyone's home. That's what some people thought of wrong number phone calls in the days of landline phones.

In which case shouting through the door should be as effective (and less likely to ruin two or more lives) than shooting through it.
 
I presume you meant as part of the military in somewhere like a village in Afghanistan?

They wish. We would have killed (no pun intended) to be able to shoot anyone we "feared for our lives for" in Afghanistan.
 
In which case shouting through the door should be as effective (and less likely to ruin two or more lives) than shooting through it.

Unless you Dragon Shout through the door.

Also: I'm not up with the modern gimmicky gadgets like camera doorbells myself, but even my ancient house's front door has a damn peephole on it. I look through it when someone knocks, to decide if I want to answer. (If they're holding a clipboard the answer is No. If they're in Girl Scout uniforms with a cookie order form, then it's Yes.)
 
The topic brought up an issue from my own life, a difficult story for me to tell.

Content warning: harm to a pet

Living in Florida I was well aware of the stories of shooting at strangers at the door. My roommate and I didn't know the neighbors too well. We'd never spoken to them, but noticed that there were often loud arguments and that the husband was clearly drunk a lot. Mostly we just steered clear.

The neighbor's house had two things that were the source of trouble on this occasion: a backyard above-ground pool, and a small dog. We worked late shift, so it was common for us to be outside chatting quietly late at night while my roommate smoked. Must have been about 2 in the morning, we faintly heard sounds of splashing in the pool. Naturally worried that their pet was having a mishap, we discussed what to do. We did not feel comfortable pounding on their door at 2AM. So instead we took what we thought was a responsible action, phoning the police emergency line.

They took the report, and we waited. Growing increasingly uneasy as the splashing sounds continued. We tried calling again. Apparently there was a large fight elsewhere in the neighborhood that was tying up most police resources. By the time a squad car finally arrived to alert the homeowners, it was too late.

I heard the splashing stop before the police could arrive. I heard her scream in grief when she found out her pet didn't make it. That will haunt me forever. Because we were too scared of our neighbors to knock on a door for an emergency in the middle of the night. I've carried guilt for that ever since.

Years later the loudmouth drunk husband was gone and I was on better terms with the same neighbor. So things eventually smoothed over, but I remember anyway.

I had an incident in my life, that I don't even want to discuss, which means I would now pretty much always walk on by. Sorry, to hear about yours, but I think you were wise to phone the police.
 
Good idea on principle, but it wouldn't stop the psychopath contingent. How do you identify a ticking bomb loon on a gun application?

Question 8: Do you now, or have you ever, planned on killing random people under flimsy pretexts of pissing-your-pants fear?

I did hundreds of firearms licences when I was a cop. It is easy, with background checks, to identify those unfit to have a gun. There have been occasional mass shootings and other crimes in the UK by registered firearms holders, but they are very rare, such that the licensing system has a 99% plus accuracy at ensuring only suitable people can get a gun. That must make it one of the most accurate licensing systems anywhere in the world.
 

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