Would You Take Driving Points For Someone Else?

[andyandy]

An interesting story of marital breakdown, alleged lying to avoid losing a driving license and the potential end of a political career...

The acrimonious divorce of Chris Huhne and Vicky Pryce spiralled into a political as well as personal crisis when they were both charged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, prompting Huhne's resignation as energy secretary and a call by Pryce for the case to be resolved quickly.

Huhne described the director of public prosecutions' decision to charge him as deeply regrettable and vowed to prove his innocence in front of a jury.

Pryce, in a brief statement from her lawyer, did not declare her innocence or guilt, saying she would now spend some time with her family and adding: "Obviously I hope for a quick resolution of the case." It is not known what plea she will submit to the charges.

In a day of personal turmoil and suspense for Huhne and Pryce, Keir Starmer, the DPP, announced he judged that sufficient evidence existed to charge the former couple. It is alleged that Pryce has admitted taking speeding points on behalf of her former husband in March 2003, an allegation she initially made in the Sunday Times during their separation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/feb/03/chris-huhne?intcmp=239

I was reading in another piece that there is precedent for this - and a lorry driver and his mate who did the same thing pleaded guilty and received 4 months in jail (this had initially been higher but was appealed down...)

Which is a bit surprising....I would have considered taking points for someone, well whilst obviously not OK, still not a jail-able offense. Additionally, I wonder if Pryce now facing jail is regretting (one supposes) trying to get back at her husband after their separation....?

So should there be a jail sentence for this? If so how long?

Discuss

 

[The Don]

Gaol should be an option, after all it's fraud or perjury or somesuch.

The Dems are hardly covering themselves in glory.

 

[Sunstealer]

Gaol should be an option, after all it's fraud or perjury or somesuch.

Try reading the article

charged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice

That's why it carries a potential prison sentence. In fact perverting the course of justice carries a maximum life sentence. Doesn't mean that everyone convicted of that crime gets life, it depends on the sentencing guidelines for each individual case.

Typically this Huhne (Hoon or Huhne is now another word for the c-word due to the character of the two politicians with those names) is looking at 3-6 months maximum (serve half before automatic release) but in all likely hood will get a suspended sentence if found guilty and he'll be back at the trough.

And no I wouldn't take points for someone.

 

[rjh01]

Put it this way. I do not drive, so I could take the points for someone else who does drive. This would undermine the system, so both the actual driver and me should face severe punishment.

 

[Complexity]

No, I would not.

 

[Darat]

I recall a FD where I worked going around asking if someone would do this. From the responses he got I think a lot of people would be willing to do this (he offered £50 but no one would take them for that price).

This is one of those cases where I can see there being a strong "in the public interest" to see it prosecuted' the story has had a lot of coverage for quite a long time and if he is found guilty I think that result will also gain a lot of publicity.

 

[andyandy]

I recall a FD where I worked going around asking if someone would do this. From the responses he got I think a lot of people would be willing to do this (he offered £50 but no one would take them for that price).

I think that the issue here would be people not realising that this was such a seriously punished offence. Prior to reading about this case I would have thought that this would have unlikely to even have been a police matter.....

after all, if you lose your license and then get caught driving you're unlikely (AFAIK) to go to jail - and yet, if you lie about your points to avoid losing your license you probably will.....

just as well no one asked me to take their points i guess

 

[Ilooklike ACrowley]

No... and I wouldn't ask anyone to take them for me either.

 

[Rolfe]

I think that the issue here would be people not realising that this was such a seriously punished offence. Prior to reading about this case I would have thought that this would have unlikely to even have been a police matter.....

after all, if you lose your license and then get caught driving you're unlikely (AFAIK) to go to jail - and yet, if you lie about your points to avoid losing your license you probably will.....

just as well no one asked me to take their points i guess

It's not about the severity or otherwise of the original driving offence. It's about perverting the course of justice. Maybe I need to say that again.

PERVERTING THE COURSE OF JUSTICE

This man is an MP, a lawmaker. If anyone should have realised the severity of the offence, he should. If he did it, that is. If he didn't, presumably there will be no evidence and he'll be found not guilty.

I should put that in the thread about Huhne, not this one.

No I wouldn't take points for someone else. I can get points of my own, thank you all the same.

Rolfe.

 

[lionking]

I would.

Here you get points for as little as 3kms per hour over the limit. if one of my kids faced the prospect of losing their license and subsequently their job, I would hardly hesitate.

 

[Rolfe]

Someone on another forum said there are a lot of parents who have suddenly acquired three points on their licences after decades of unblemished driving, shortly after one of their children started driving.

I don't have children so I can't really comment, but I think it may be a bad idea to let young drivers start off with the idea they can break the law and daddy will make it OK. One set of points isn't going to affect them in any real sense. If they start clocking up enough to be facing a ban, then they really need the learning experience.

Rolfe.

 

[Agatha]

I wouldn't. 3 points doesn't affect insurance premiums to any great extent as so many people have 3 points. My daughter passed her test a year ago, and she was well aware that if a NIP showed up in the post, I'd nominate her if she'd been driving my car at the time.

Perverting the course of justice has always been a very serious offence and the specialist forum set up to help people with motoring offences in the UK, PePiPoo, has always emphasised that not being truthful on the s172 (the form where the keeper has to state who was driving the car at the time of the alleged offence) may well land people in jail.

 

[geni]

Someone on another forum said there are a lot of parents who have suddenly acquired three points on their licences after decades of unblemished driving, shortly after one of their children started driving.

I don't have children so I can't really comment, but I think it may be a bad idea to let young drivers start off with the idea they can break the law and daddy will make it OK. One set of points isn't going to affect them in any real sense. If they start clocking up enough to be facing a ban, then they really need the learning experience.

I suspect the issue there is insurance premiums. While in adults they may be fairly stable even with 3 points those of young drivers will jump rather a lot and they are already rather high.

On the other hand it could be a parents having a bit of fun after years of driving with kids in the car.

 

[Babbylonian]

Someone on another forum said there are a lot of parents who have suddenly acquired three points on their licences after decades of unblemished driving, shortly after one of their children started driving.

I don't have children so I can't really comment, but I think it may be a bad idea to let young drivers start off with the idea they can break the law and daddy will make it OK. One set of points isn't going to affect them in any real sense. If they start clocking up enough to be facing a ban, then they really need the learning experience.

Rolfe.

Yep. It's pretty crap parenting.

We don't do the points system here in Oregon but when I started driving and got a speeding ticket, my folks didn't pay it off for me.

As for the story in the OP, I say throw the book at him, hard. If he'd been taking the rap for his wife I might feel [a little] differently in that at least there'd be an element of nobility in it. Instead, he was allegedly breaking the law coming and going, doing the crimes and allowing blame to be assigned to his wife.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Ok, what are these points?

And no I wouldn't take a ticket for someone else. Take your own tickets people.

 

[Rolfe]

I suspect the issue there is insurance premiums. While in adults they may be fairly stable even with 3 points those of young drivers will jump rather a lot and they are already rather high.

Well, Agatha said three points wouldn't affect it all that much. I don't know who's right. But thinking about it, that's arguably even worse. It's in effect lying to the insurance company to get a lower premium than the child is eligible for.

I can understand the impulse, but it's an impulse that should be avoided. For a lot of good reasons, and one of these reasons is that it's a criminal offence that could land both of you in jail of you were to be found out. Another is that a young driver who hasn't been made to take the consequences of a speeding ticket may well kill themselves and/or somebody else. If it's only one incident of 3 m.p.h. over the limit, and the kid is basically a good driver, then he has nothing to worry about either way.

On the other hand it could be a parents having a bit of fun after years of driving with kids in the car.

Maybe sometimes, who knows?

Rolfe.

 

[geni]

Ok, what are these points?

Points that go on your license for a certian length of time if you commit an offence (can be anything from speeding to killing someone). They stay on your license for various lengths of time and if you hit 12 you usualy lose your license. In the first 2 years the limit is 6. A 3 points per speeding offence this is an issue.

And no I wouldn't take a ticket for someone else. Take your own tickets people.

So not married then?

 

[geni]

Well, Agatha said three points wouldn't affect it all that much. I don't know who's right. But thinking about it, that's arguably even worse. It's in effect lying to the insurance company to get a lower premium than the child is eligible for.

Which is rather common in any case. How many parents do you think are really the primary driver of 2 cars?

I can understand the impulse, but it's an impulse that should be avoided. For a lot of good reasons, and one of these reasons is that it's a criminal offence that could land both of you in jail of you were to be found out. Another is that a young driver who hasn't been made to take the consequences of a speeding ticket may well kill themselves and/or somebody else. If it's only one incident of 3 m.p.h. over the limit, and the kid is basically a good driver, then he has nothing to worry about either way.

6 point limit remember so the margin for error is rather narrow. Sure for a lot of new drivers this is less of an issue since if they go to uni they may not even need a car but they do then have to re-pass their test.

Maybe sometimes, who knows?

Could probably be worked out by comparing speed camera data with data from when the driver is actualy stopped.

 

[The Don]

After months of claiming his innocence, Chris Huhne has plead guilty to peverting the course of justice:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21320992

I wonder he he will explain his sudden change of heart.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Whatever the appropriate sentence is, it should be doubled when it's an MP let alone a member of the Cabinet. What hope is there when the very people who make the Law flout it?