Would the apostolic fathers have had motivation to lie ?

Dayan81 said:
No one who actually saw the "Risen Christ" wrote a word of the New Testament. All testimony of him rising from the grave is 2nd-hand testimony, which would not be considered admissable evidence in any court in the land.

Let alone the fact that the original Gospel According to Mark does not include anyone actually witnessing a risen Christ. All we have is an empty tomb.
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Some people like to post on this forum to express their feelings and their intellectual progress into atheism but you, on the other hand have a God and you want everyone else to believe in that God, but your God is not Jesus. Your God is the flaming angel of Sinai, the demon of hell and death, so scoot your butt right off this forum.
 
Ethnikos said:
Some people like to post on this forum to express their feelings and their intellectual progress into atheism but you, on the other hand have a God and you want everyone else to believe in that God, but your God is not Jesus. Your God is the flaming angel of Sinai, the demon of hell and death, so scoot your butt right off this forum.
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Are you saying that the original Gospel of Mark does include witnesses to Jesus' resurrection?
 
Dayan81 said:
Are you saying that the original Gospel of Mark does include witnesses to Jesus' resurrection?
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I'm saying you are anti-christ, no an atheist or agnostic, like most people here. Did you get my hint?
Let me emphasize. You have a god but it is not the God of Jesus, it is Satan.
 
Ethnikos said:
I'm saying you are anti-christ, no an atheist or agnostic, like most people here. Did you get my hint?
Let me emphasize. You have a god but it is not the God of Jesus, it is Satan.
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LOL

How old are you?

Hey, I'll take Satan for my own god over yours any day.

I don't believe in your idiotic crap anyway.

If anyone should "scoot their butt off" this forum it should be you, so stop telling other posters to leave.
 
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Ethnikos said:
Some people like to post on this forum to express their feelings and their intellectual progress into atheism but you, on the other hand have a God and you want everyone else to believe in that God, but your God is not Jesus. Your God is the flaming angel of Sinai, the demon of hell and death, so scoot your butt right off this forum.
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I believe until he/she breaks some rules, Dayan81 has as much right to post here as anyone.

Not cool, Mr Ethnikos.
 
bikerdruid said:
dude...you seriously need to give your head a shake.:cool:
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Do you understand what he is promoting here?
Give your head a shake?
How about no head and you would be one to go, yourself.
You need to do a little research into what the Noahide laws are.
This is not just pie in the sky but US law pushed through Congress when a recess started and they said, Oh just keep it open for a bit and we are going to take this opportunity to honor this Rabbi. They voted on a bill to make the Noahide laws official law and it was signed into law which makes idolatry and blasphemy crimes punishable by death. Plus a whole bunch of moral crimes you may be interested in finding out about.
People are being paid to go on forums to convince people how this is all reasonable and that we need to start actually enforcing these laws.
 
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Ethnikos said:
Do you understand what he is promoting here?
Give your head a shake?
How about no head and you would be one to go, yourself.
You need to do a little research into what the Noahide laws are.
This is not just pie in the sky but US law pushed through Congress when a recess started and they said, Oh just keep it open for a bit and we are going to take this opportunity to honor this Rabbi. They voted on a bill to make the Noahide laws official law and it was signed into law which make idolatry and blasphemy crimes punishable by death. Plus a whole bunch of moral crimes you may be interested in finding out about.
People are being paid to go on forums to convince people how this is all reasonable and that we need to start actually enforcing these laws.
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Can you seriously see a US judge sentencing someone to death for blasphemy? Idolatry? etc?

If so, you really need to stop reading the crazy old religious books for a while...
 
Ethnikos said:
They voted on a bill to make the Noahide laws official law and it was signed into law which makes idolatry and blasphemy crimes punishable by death. Plus a whole bunch of moral crimes you may be interested in finding out about.
People are being paid to go on forums to convince people how this is all reasonable and that we need to start actually enforcing these laws.
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Ha ha!

What utter ********.
 
Gao

If we can get away from the monster gods of Sinai and similar stuff for a while: you propose that:
one may be able to make the case that it's possible that Matthew wrote a work that denied a virgin birth.
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Maybe so, although I think that by the time the gospel came anywhere near its present form, the virgin story was already there. More than the other gospel writers, Matthew bases his "history" on the garbled Old Testament "prophecies" derided by Tom Paine, and these include the Isaiah virgin nonsense.

But he certainly picked up some "pre-virgin" material. See the genealogy at Matt 1:1-17, which is a list of ancestors of Joseph, not Mary; so it must have been composed by someone who believed Joseph to be Jesus' biological father. John, writing independently of the Synoptics, also takes this view, calling Jesus "son of Joseph" at Jn 1:45 and 6:42.

As to the dates of the gospels; scholars tend to date Matthew about 90-100 AD. Why not? Mid 2nd century dates are far, far too late. Could "lies" have circulated so soon after Jesus' death? Yes, possibly, for lies can develop very quickly indeed. That can be seen in the histories of newer religions like Mormonism, Spiritualism and Scientology, all of which developed out of shameless and absurd scams and swindles.
 
Ethnikos

If you think Revelation is warning you about things, you should have a cup of camomile tea, and lie down for a bit. If the symptoms persist ...
 
Craig B said:
Ethnikos

If you think Revelation is warning you about things, you should have a cup of camomile tea, and lie down for a bit. If the symptoms persist ...
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I grew up in a church that was seriously into Revelation and we studied it constantly and were supposed to be able to sit down with someone and explain each verse in it, what it meant. Not just that but to give detailed back-story. So if it looks like I just sit here and dream this stuff up, then wrong, I was indoctrinated into it. My point being it is not so easy to not be affected by all that "learning" and see things that seen to match up.
 
Ethnikos said:
I'm saying you are anti-christ, no an atheist or agnostic, like most people here. Did you get my hint?
Let me emphasize. You have a god but it is not the God of Jesus, it is Satan.
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Actually I am mostly Agnostic. Though I do often times fantasize about the possibility of an all-powerful Creator, who created the Universe and keeps it spinning.
 
Dayan81 said:
Actually I am mostly Agnostic. Though I do often times fantasize about the possibility of an all-powerful Creator, who created the Universe and keeps it spinning.
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And that this fantasy god has a name that we need to revere on pain of death? Say these words after me, Yahweh is a demon of hell.
 
Ethnikos said:
And that this fantasy god has a name that we need to revere on pain of death? Say these words after me, Yahweh is a demon of hell.
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Yahweh is a Christian mispronunciation of one of the many terms used for God in the Hebrew language. Jews call God "Adonai", "Elohim", & "Eloheynu".

However, referring to the Jewish version of God as a "demon of Hell" is highly intolerant.
 
bikerdruid said:
shouldn't 'yahweh' be spelled 'yhwh', or not at all?
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Are you trying to be helpful or are you concerned about proper reverence.
If I was on a strictly Jewish forum I would not use any form, like what you say, "not at all", would be appropriate in that situation out of regard for the people. But I don't have concern towards God because I know my God has no such name and if anyone does, it would be a particular angel. If a religion wants to worship an angel but give it God attributes then that's their business and not my concern. If these people want me to name my God that, then I have a problem.
I mean not disrespect towards you and actually hold you in a certain regard for your integrity.
 
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