Would Religion still continue if....

[Guest]

Ask yourself this if god existed and proof of him/them(covering all religions) was found beyond reasonable doubt. How many would continue to worship him/them if him/they turned out to be for example a giant cockroach, a mass murdering cannibalistic light-bulb

a)Would religion still continue or end there and then?

b) How would those who are religious feel

c) Would any continue to worship

d) Would the religious hierarchy deny this was their god and dismiss and ignore all evidence to the contrary?



Views

 

[Aquila_ka_Hecate]

a giant cockroach, a mass murdering cannibalistic light-bulb

As far as I'm concerned, hetheyit might as well be.
I can't see any difference.

As for the religious, this

) Would the religious hierarchy deny this was their god and dismiss and ignore all evidence to the contrary?

seems to me the most likely reaction.Think how many lives are built on those foundations.

But as for the poll, I'm thick this afternoon and I can't quite understand the question.
Is there some way to elucidate, please?

 

[Guest]

As far as I'm concerned, hetheyit might as well be.
I can't see any difference.

As for the religious, this




seems to me the most likely reaction.Think how many lives are built on those foundations.

But as for the poll, I'm thick this afternoon and I can't quite understand the question.
Is there some way to elucidate, please?

Would religion cease and what would happen if it did, then hit one of the option numbered 1-6 .


So what you're saying is relgious worship of a god that was presumed to be of a human form would continue if it turned out it was not?

 

[Aquila_ka_Hecate]

Thanks Pie.

So what you're saying is relgious worship of a god that was presumed to be of a human form would continue if it turned out it was not?

Quasi anthropomorphic at least, don't you think?
There's something deeply ingrained in the human psyche concerning religion.

I don't know that it's actually necessary to us, but it's a little like a habit we can't kick

I heard someone describe religion as a psychosis once.
He had much to go on, of course, although as long as a majority of people subscribe to the idea I'm not sure that it can legitimately be called a mental disease.
I'd like to, though.

 

[Graham]

I think you'll find you've mis-spelled "Planet X" in your poll. I wouldn't normally comment on that but, really, - "X", I mean, how hard is that?

That said, I think most people ignore blatent proof that their religions are a bunch of crap every day, why would one more make any difference?

I therefore voted that they would ignore it.

Graham

 

[Guest]

Thanks Pie.



Quasi anthropomorphic at least, don't you think?
There's something deeply ingrained in the human psyche concerning religion.

I don't know that it's actually necessary to us, but it's a little like a habit we can't kick

I heard someone describe religion as a psychosis once.
He had much to go on, of course, although as long as a majority of people subscribe to the idea I'm not sure that it can legitimately be called a mental disease.
I'd like to, though.

lol @ mental disease and how apt how true.

Yes the human urge to have to believe we are not alone and there has to be a higher entity that put us here and is protecting us. sad. we got lucky in the primordial soup and bingo here we all are now. Nothing to do with religion of god.

 

[Guest]

I think you'll find you've mis-spelled "Planet X" in your poll. I wouldn't normally comment on that but, really, - "X", I mean, how hard is that?

That said, I think most people ignore blatent proof that their religions are a bunch of crap every day, why would one more make any difference?

I therefore voted that they would ignore it.

Graham

Woops you know what I mean

Teach me to have a major catspit on the wire while polling with the ex grrrr


sorry sob sob Planet ex is planet X )

 

[Furterfan]

Facts and Religion do not mix.
when a religion is shown to have been based on faulty premises/ lust for power/ cheap trickery/ imagination/ hallucination, True believing adherants will explain away the problems and continue in the faith. For a quick example, consider Mormonism (and all its offshoots), Mo Berg's children of god, etc.
If a god was proved to exist, it would be denied by the adherants to any other version of god and explained away as a demon/ devil/ test of faith etc.

FF

 

[Yahzi]

If you think about it, one of the goals of religion is to control the divine. The Bible is taken to be a contract that binds God to certain rules and regulations.

I can't decide if the presence of an actual god would a) make more people try to control him, or b) show that controlling him wasn't working, and thus people would stop trying.

 

[Franko]

Yes the human urge to have to believe we are not alone and there has to be a higher entity that put us here and is protecting us. sad. we got lucky in the primordial soup and bingo here we all are now. Nothing to do with religion of god.

Wishful thinking.

Like I told you the other day Darling. You are an Algorithm. So is TLOP (God), except TLOP is a much bigger more complex algorithm. TLOP writes your program in far less time then it takes You to write TLOP’s program. You want to pretend that universes magically appear and then miraculously produce you for no discernable reason, then You are the one with the magical religious thinking.

Even if you want to pretend otherwise.

 

[Guest]

Wishful thinking.

Like I told you the other day Darling. You are an Algorithm. So is TLOP (God), except TLOP is a much bigger more complex algorithm. TLOP writes your program in far less time then it takes You to write TLOP’s program. You want to pretend that universes magically appear and then miraculously produce you for no discernible reason, then You are the one with the magical religious thinking.

Even if you want to pretend otherwise.

Darling Franko you smooth talking love-atom

Hypothetically speaking If I am a program for sake of arguments, why would I want to worship another program?


Sniff I wanted to be a miracle born in soup sniff.

 

[Guest]

If you think about it, one of the goals of religion is to control the divine. The Bible is taken to be a contract that binds God to certain rules and regulations.

I can't decide if the presence of an actual god would a) make more people try to control him, or b) show that controlling him wasn't working, and thus people would stop trying.

I thought it was the other way round, the bible binded man to obey the rules and regualtions imposed by supposed god?

 

[Franko]

Darling Franko you smooth talking love-atom

Ohhh Pie there is something irresistible about You. If only it weren’t for that “evil-A-Theist” thingy …

Hypothetically speaking If I am a program for sake of arguments, why would I want to worship another program?

Hypothetically speaking if you are a daughter (for the sake of argument), why would you want to be kind and loyal to your Mother?

I mean seriously? … what did that bee-atch ever do for You?

Sniff I wanted to be a miracle born in soup sniff.

You still were, it’s just that it’s a soup of Time and Energy not your imaginary little playmate … “the matter”.

 

[fidiot]

Wishful thinking.

Like I told you the other day Darling. You are an Algorithm. So is TLOP (God), except TLOP is a much bigger more complex algorithm. TLOP writes your program in far less time then it takes You to write TLOP’s program. You want to pretend that universes magically appear and then miraculously produce you for no discernable reason, then You are the one with the magical religious thinking.

Even if you want to pretend otherwise.

This belongs to a new thread. If you want to argue about the laws of physics, start a new thread. Now answer the original question or be quiet.

 

[Franko]

What's your definition of a "Religion" f-idiot?

Ohhh wait ... let me guess, any system of dogmatic metaphysical beliefs other than your precious A-Theism?

 

[Peter Jenkins]

Ask yourself this if god existed and proof of him/them(covering all religions) was found beyond reasonable doubt. How many would continue to worship him/them if him/they turned out to be for example a giant cockroach, a mass murdering cannibalistic light-bulb

a)Would religion still continue or end there and then?

b) How would those who are religious feel

c) Would any continue to worship

d) Would the religious hierarchy deny this was their god and dismiss and ignore all evidence to the contrary?



Views

An Interesting question. I think the point about Mormonism was quite apt. Mormonism is a religion which has been thoroughly debunked time and time again. Joseph Smith Jnr, has been shown to be a cheat, a fraud and a liar, yet it is still one of the worlds growing religions (12 million+, and increasing daily).

Facts and Religion do not mix.

Rather, I would say "Facts either support your religion - or are wrong"
Peter

 

[Guest]

Ohh Pie there is something irresistible about You. If only it weren’t for that “evil-A-Theist” thingy …



Hypothetically speaking if you are a daughter (for the sake of argument), why would you want to be kind and loyal to your Mother?

I mean seriously? … what did that bee-atch ever do for You?



You still were, it’s just that it’s a soup of Time and Energy not your imaginary little playmate … “the matter”.

Franko your starting to scare me lol, your making me question myself.

Hey can't a chick have a dark evil side

Hypothetically speaking, it' one of the unwritten laws you follow respect your elders blah blah. What did that hypothetical bee*atch do for me , raised me fed me clothed me and made me go to school. Dang it


So matter is imaginary? talk me through it slowly, show me it through your eyes, show me my choice of atheism is a bad call on my part?


You say I am an atheist, that's bad in your eyes. So what are you? If god doesn't exist doesn't that make you the same as me? Explain simply.

 

[Franko]

Ms. Pie,

Franko your starting to scare me lol, your making me question myself.

hehe ... Welcome to the R & P forum Darling.

Hey can't a chick have a dark evil side

Why do you think us Men find you Women so irresistible in the first place?

Hypothetically speaking, it' one of the unwritten laws you follow respect your elders blah blah. What did that hypothetical bee*atch do for me , raised me fed me clothed me and made me go to school. Dang it

My point is you have a very similar type of relationship with “God”. But let me explain what I mean …

Try and imagine what it must have been like when you were first born – when you were an infant. How do you suppose you perceived your mother then? Are you sure that you even perceived her as an entity like Yourself? Compared to you as a newborn, your mother possessed “magical powers” that were far beyond you ability to comprehend. She could walk, and talk. She had the ability to make matter appear and disappear at will. Even as you grew older I bet you perceived you mother as a semi-omnipotent being. I bet that you believed that if your mother did not do something it wasn’t because She couldn’t do it … it was because She didn’t want to do it.

For all intent and purposes “God” has a 13 billion year evolutionary head start on you. For you to perceive Her as She really is, is analogous to an ant trying to perceive that a Human is a fellow living being.

So matter is imaginary? talk me through it slowly, show me it through your eyes, show me my choice of atheism is a bad call on my part?

In a manner of speaking – Yes – “matter” is imaginary, or more accurately, the “matter” is not as real as You or I.

Okay … A-Theism is not what you think. A-Theism is just another mystical religion with it’s own deity and system of dogma. The “God” of A-Theism is “free willy” (Belief in Free will). In order to be an A-Theist you have to believe in some form of “free will”. It is impossible for a person to call themselves an A-Theist and have any consistency in their beliefs at all without first asserting the existence of these “magical powers”. You see, if you don’t have “free will”, then Fatalism is True, and if Fatalism is True, then that is your evidence for a conscious “God”.

And what is the evidence for “free willy” … NONE. In fact all of the evidence argues against “free will”.

Atoms obey the Laws of Physics (TLOP)
You are made of atoms.
You obey TLOP.

TLOP (God) makes/controls YOU makes/controls CAR

In the same way that YOU are more conscious than CAR, TLOP must be more conscious than YOU. More conscious things control less conscious things. To claim otherwise is analogous to claiming that when YOU go for a ride in your CAR, your CAR has more “free will” (is more in control) than YOU are!

I say that A-Theism is “Mystical” Religion because one cannot be an A-Theist without a strong (yet typically hidden) belief in “magic”. The basis for the A-Theists magical “free willy” powers is typically an incomprehensible appeal to the magic of “Quantum Randomness”. Essentially this boils down to the A-Theist claiming that the present is not based on the past, and the future not being based on the present (magic). As if this weren’t ridiculous enough, A-Theists seem to think that claiming the entire universe and complete functioning set of The Laws of Physics (TLOP) just magically popped out of the Void one day is a “Scientific” claim. There is nothing scientific about claiming that anything magically appears out of nowhere. Claiming that the entire Universe magically appeared and calling it “Scientific” is simply delusional. That is a complete and total rejection of Science in my mind.

You say I am an atheist, that's bad in your eyes. So what are you? If god doesn't exist doesn't that make you the same as me? Explain simply.

I believe in a Deity. I worship the Logical Goddess (The Goddess of Skepticism).

I am a Logical Deist. Logical Deism (LD) is a non-dogmatic, non-mystical belief system based on Logic and Natural Law. LD operates under the premise that reality is completely logical, objective, and ultimately completely comprehensible. It is a highly optimistic worldview. We are kind of like Anti-Atheists.

 

[Guest]

Ms. Pie,hehe ... Welcome to the R & P forum Darling.

X Ty Babes X

Why do you think us Men find you Women so irresistible in the first place?

Hee hee Franko you dark horse Too right mans place is to worship and lay on the ground for us us women to walk are dark sides all over

My point is you have a very similar type of relationship with “God”. But let me explain what I mean …

Try and imagine what it must have been like when you were first born – when you were an infant. How do you suppose you perceived your mother then? Are you sure that you even perceived her as an entity like Yourself? Compared to you as a newborn, your mother possessed “magical powers” that were far beyond you ability to comprehend. She could walk, and talk. She had the ability to make matter appear and disappear at will. Even as you grew older I bet you perceived you mother as a semi-omnipotent being. I bet that you believed that if your mother did not do something it wasn't’t because She could’t do it … it was because She didn't’t want to do it.

Ahh but as a baby the world revolves around me, I manipulate the adults to do my bidding don't I? As I grow up that idealism is shattered as reality kicks in as I find that I was not center of the universe I was a helpless being. That alone then makes me(hypothetically) push the boundaries to how far I can go.

For all intent and purposes “God” has a 13 billion year evolutionary head start on you. For you to perceive Her as She really is, is analogous to an ant trying to perceive that a Human is a fellow living being.

True thought I still wouldn't acknowledge the *God* part more like environment and biology had a head start. Perception what I perceive as real may and is often different from others, yes that part I do understand. Does my nonacceptance of certain things blind what I do see is a good question to ask?

In a manner of speaking – Yes – “matter” is imaginary, or more accurately, the “matter” is not as real as You or I.

True matter is in the form we view it as so I suppose there could be a doubt there. We only know it is thee as somebody has told us its there before hand. There lies another quandary.

OK … A-Theism is not what you think. A-Theism is just another mystical religion with it’s own deity and system of dogma. The “God” of A-Theism is “free willy” (Belief in Free will). In order to be an A-Theist you have to believe in some form of “free will”. It is impossible for a person to call themselves an A-Theist and have any consistency in their beliefs at all without first asserting the existence of these “magical powers”. You see, if you don’t have “free will”, then Fatalism is True, and if Fatalism is True, then that is your evidence for a conscious “God”.

And what is the evidence for “free willy” … NONE. In fact all of the evidence argues against “free will”.

Stop saying free willy you keep getingt me all excited

Now free will, does it exist for the best part no it is limited.

Dogma??

Explain fatalism

But why *god terms* why does it have to be a god not a natural thing?

Atoms obey the Laws of Physics (TLOP)
You are made of atoms.
You obey TLOP.

TLOP (God) makes/controls YOU makes/controls CAR

In the same way that YOU are more conscious than CAR, TLOP must be more conscious than YOU. More conscious things control less conscious things. To claim otherwise is analogous to claiming that when YOU go for a ride in your CAR, your CAR has more “free will” (is more in control) than YOU are![/quote see now this really confuses me. the law of physics TLOP?? why does it have to be conscious?

I say that A-Theism is “Mystical” Religion because one cannot be an A-Theist without a strong (yet typically hidden) belief in “magic”. The basis for the A-Theists magical “free willy” powers is typically an incomprehensible appeal to the magic of “Quantum Randomness”. Essentially this boils down to the A-Theist claiming that the present is not based on the past, and the future not being based on the present (magic). As if this weren't’t ridiculous enough, A-Theists seem to think that claiming the entire universe and complete functioning set of The Laws of Physics (TLOP) just magically popped out of the Void one day is a “Scientific” claim. There is nothing scientific about claiming that anything magically appears out of nowhere. Claiming that the entire Universe magically appeared and calling it “Scientific” is simply delusional. That is a complete and total rejection of Science in my mind.

you and the free willy stoppit

why is it? Confused again. Science explains things ok we dot know how the universe appeared but there are good theories to explain it's beginning?

I believe in a Deity. I worship the Logical Goddess (The Goddess of Skepticism).

I am skeptical but also remain open minded on something too, perhaps that is why I get confused so much

I am a Logical Deist. Logical Deism (LD) is a non-dogmatic, non-mystical belief system based on Logic and Natural Law. LD operates under the premise that reality is completely logical, objective, and ultimately completely comprehensible. It is a highly optimistic worldview. We are kind of like Anti-Atheists.

Need more info, logic yes I understand, but you use god that makes me think religion and there fore contradicts atheism, confused again.

 

[Penrich]

And what is the evidence for “free will” … NONE. In fact all of the evidence argues against “free will”.

Atoms obey the Laws of Physics (TLOP)
You are made of atoms.
You obey TLOP.

Since this thread has become a place for Franko to be open about his beliefs, may I ask a question?

In my understanding of science, neurology especially, our thought processes are governed by neurons - chemical reactions, pathways built up over time, reinforced with use, others neglected wither and are replaced by new ones. These form memories, experiences and together lead us to act in certain ways when faced with new challenges/decisions. This is my defintion of free will.

Franko - you obviously know more about physics and neurobiology than I - can you explain to me exactly how the laws of physics control this process? How does Heisenburg's Uncertainty principle fit in with this? How can the course of neural development be preordained? Given especially that biology tends to be not 100% one way or another - gradients of development "factors" (homeo-box containing proteins and the like), graded gene responses, etc.