World helps U.S. after Katrina. Remember this.

[Freakshow]

Do you not remember people pouring out wine? Pundits ranting about these things on radio and T.V.? Surely I didn't imagine all that. As to what percentage made the statements I allegedly quoted? Honesty, Freakshow... what relation would that have to anything I've said?

Because if the media sensationalizes the behavior of a tiny percentage of the population, then you are getting yourself worked up over something that is not even close to being the views of the majority of the US. I don't care about what the media finds to sensationalize. I care about properly conducted scientific surveys that make a reasonably accurate depiction of the attitudes of all 300 million people in the US.

 

[Freakshow]

I see... so the implication is that I am "desperate to hate America?" That's not really a good substitute for rational discussion.

Actually, it is. If someone goes all the way down to the bottom of the barrell to talk about a tiny percentage of the US population having "freedom fries", then they are showing that they have come to a conclusion first, and are now data-mining to find things to back that conclusion.

 

[RandFan]

Maybe it’s just the avatar.

It is a thing of beauty. I always thought it odd when it was refered to as a wart hog. But then I suppose the wart hog is a thing of beauty istelf to some folks. I saw an A-10 take on a parked bus at Edwards Airforce Base a few years back. The bus was non operational so it didn't really have a chance. The 30mm cannon shreded the thin shell of the bus. For some reason I thought the bus was going to blow up. Two many movies I suppose and assume they removed any gas tanks. If I had been in charge of the demonstration I would have seen to it the gas tanks were intact and full but then that was probably not a good idea for safety reasons. In any event the plane was incredible. The A-10 was not on static display however and that marred an otherwise outstanding airshow.

 

[delphi_ote]

Because if the media sensationalizes the behavior of a tiny percentage of the population, then you are getting yourself worked up over something that is not even close to being the views of the majority of the US. I don't care about what the media finds to sensationalize. I care about properly conducted scientific surveys that make a reasonably accurate depiction of the attitudes of all 300 million people in the US.

I guess it's all a figment of my imagination...

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=796

 

[Bjorn]

Actually, it is. If someone goes all the way down to the bottom of the barrell to talk about a tiny percentage of the US population having "freedom fries", then they are showing that they have come to a conclusion first, and are now data-mining to find things to back that conclusion.

Doesn't it matter who are in that tiny percentage?

(AP) House cafeterias will be serving fries with a side order of patriotism Tuesday with a decision by GOP lawmakers to replace the "French" cuisine with "freedom fries."

"This action today is a small but symbolic effort to show the strong displeasure of many on Capitol Hill with the actions of our so-called ally, France," said Rep. Bob Ney, R-Ohio, chairman of the House Administration Committee.

Ney, whose panel oversees House operations, ordered the House Administrative officer to change the menus in House office building cafeterias to read "freedom fries" and "freedom toast."

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/11/politics/main543555.shtml

 

[delphi_ote]

I draw your attention to this figure...

 

[delphi_ote]

Actually, it is. If someone goes all the way down to the bottom of the barrell to talk about a tiny percentage of the US population having "freedom fries", then they are showing that they have come to a conclusion first, and are now data-mining to find things to back that conclusion.

A significant number of Americans have a negative attitude toward other nations. I think that's unproductive and selfish. Does that mean I hate my country? No. Even the best countries can always do better.

 

[Alphaba]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kopji
Despite the controversy and how weird it might sound, things like the Iraq war are actually seen like our little aid contribution to making the world a better place.

---

I would say this view sounds more highly premature than weird, be it only about the method to assess objectively the 'betterplaceness' of the world.

 

[Freakshow]

2004:

Top: Denmark (0.84%), Luxembourg (0.85%), Netherlands (0.74%), Norway (0.87%), Sweden (0.77%).

Bottom: Greece (0.23%), Italy (0.15%), Japan (0.19%), New Zealand (0.23%), United States (0.16%).
Official Development Assistance (ODA) from 2001 to 2004

US Aid has dropped in recent years:

CFLarsen, I just wanted to take a moment and point out that I agree with you. I do think the US should be contributing more in foreign aid, as the amount we contribute is indeed low in comparison to our GDP.

 

[Freakshow]

I draw your attention to this figure...

NOW we're talking. That's something that is more worthwhile discussing than freedom fries.

I think that we should do more to cooperate with countries on the world stage. But it is a two-way street. At times, other countries should do more to cooperate with us. Have our lawmakers done some stupid things to offend other countries? Yep, they have. But other countries do the same to us at times. We can't put the blame all on the US. But when countries start bickering with each other, it can have a snowball effect, with the words and actions getting continually worse.

However, I would add that just because some US citizens have negative opinions of some other foreign countries does not necessarily mean that it is not justified. Just like some of the negative feelings other country's citizens have of the US are justified. The words and actions between the US and other nations have to be a two-way street. It is not all up to us to make concessions.

 

[Freakshow]

A significant number of Americans have a negative attitude toward other nations. I think that's unproductive and selfish. Does that mean I hate my country? No. Even the best countries can always do better.

I have a negative attitude towards some other nations. And I have a positive attitude towards others. And some, I don't have much of an opinion towards at all.

What's wrong with that? Why should I brainwash myself into having a positive attitude towards every other country in the world? I will judge each individually. Some I will like. Some I will not.

And I definately think we can do a lot of things to make the United States a better country, in many ways. Like I said before, I do my share of complaining about the US on this forum.

 

[Freakshow]

Doesn't it matter who are in that tiny percentage?

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/11/politics/main543555.shtml

It definately DOES matter, yes. And I agree that something like that was stupid and childish. Politicians do ignorant things like that because they want to make waves, get in the papers, and have the publicity help them get re-elected.

But we can't take that and generalize it to believe that all Americans think that way. Just like when other nation's leaders say some stupid things, I don't think that it reflects that attitude of the entire country, or even necessarily most of the country.

Edited to add: The "Freedom Fries" thing did not start with the politicians. It started with a very small number of restuarants (might even have been one; I don't care enough to go digging for articles) far from our nation's capitol doing so on their own accord. And it made national news. The things the media finds to senationalize...

 

[CFLarsen]

My point is...too many people see only the negative that the US does. And do not see ANY positive, AT ALL. They are so desperate to hate America, they have to resort to talking about "freedom fries"! That is really stretching it, when finding a reason to dislike the US.

Perhaps this is not the right time to point out that it was Americans who changed the name from "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries"....?

Perhaps it is OK to complain about the French complaining about the Americans changing "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries", but not OK to complain about the Americans changing "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries"?

I dunno.

CFLarsen, I just wanted to take a moment and point out that I agree with you. I do think the US should be contributing more in foreign aid, as the amount we contribute is indeed low in comparison to our GDP.

So, what are you going to do about it?

 

[RandFan]

Side note on private contributions

Individual/private donations may be targeted in many ways. However, even though the charts above do show US aid to be poor (in percentage terms) compared to the rest, the generosity of the American people is far more impressive than their government. Private aid/donation has been through charity of individual people and organizations though this of course can be weighted to certain interests and areas. Nonetheless, it is interesting to note for example, per latest estimates, Americans privately give at least $34 billion overseas — more than twice the US official foreign aid of $15 billion at that time:

• International giving by US foundations: $1.5 billion per year
  
• Charitable giving by US businesses: $2.8 billion annually
  
• American NGOs: $6.6 billion in grants, goods and volunteers.
  
• Religious overseas ministries: $3.4 billion, including health care,
  
• S colleges scholarships to foreign students: $1.3 billion
  
• Personal remittances from the US to developing countries: $18 billion in 2000
  
• Source: Dr. Carol Adelman, Aid and Comfort, Tech Central Station, 21 August 2002.

While Adelman admits that “there are no complete figures for international private giving” she still says that Americans are “clearly the most generous on earth in public — but especially in private — giving”. Hence these numbers and claims may be taken with caution, but even then, these are high numbers.

 

[Freakshow]

Perhaps this is not the right time to point out that it was Americans who changed the name from "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries"....?

Not all of us. Just a tiny minority.

So, what are you going to do about it?

Vote. I'm afraid I can't do much more than that. Politicians who are high up enough on the food chain to make these kinds of decisions aren't going to care about my e-mails. They wouldn't even read them, actually.

I also, on a personal level, contribute to charitable organizations, some of which make efforts in 3rd world nations.

 

[CFLarsen]

Not all of us. Just a tiny minority.

So, a tiny minority can push any agenda they want, and the rest will just comply? Gee, that really gives us great comfort in the American system.

Why do you think it is OK to complain about the French complaining about the Americans changing "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries", but not OK to complain about the Americans changing "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries"? Because that's what you are doing.

Vote. I'm afraid I can't do much more than that. Politicians who are high up enough on the food chain to make these kinds of decisions aren't going to care about my e-mails. They wouldn't even read them, actually.

I also, on a personal level, contribute to charitable organizations, some of which make efforts in 3rd world nations.

You can do a lot more. You can go out on the street, advocating your POV. You can campaign. You can blog. You can pay money to those politicians whom you agree with.

Who do you vote for?

 

[RandFan]

I have no problem whatsoever with tackling jingoism. However I think the whole freedom fries issue silly and trivial. Humans have a way of overreacting. Americans are not demonstrably worse nor better than any other humans. I certainly don't condone such actions but I think it worthy to put it into some perspective. It was overblown and a reaction by a sincere belief that many French were either ambivalent or negative towards Americans.

The opinion poll in the influential Le Monde newspaper which showed that www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/nl/content2.asp]one third of the French public were hoping for a victory by Saddam Hussein[/URL] over the Coalition forces

There seems to be the need to point fingers and figure out who is the worst offender or who offended who first. That is all pointless and will serve no purpose. If you call for tolerance in an attempt relations then I am on your side.

 

[Freakshow]

So, a tiny minority can push any agenda they want, and the rest will just comply? Gee, that really gives us great comfort in the American system.

It was only a tiny minority of people (a few restaurants, and a few politicians) that did the "Freedom Fries" thing. What sort of "compliance" do you think the rest of the country had in that?

Why do you think it is OK to complain about the French complaining about the Americans changing "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries", but not OK to complain about the Americans changing "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries"? Because that's what you are doing.

I never complained about the French complaining. Try and find that statement in my posts. What I said is that you can't look at the statements and actions of a few, and think that it represents a larger percentage of the country than it does.

You can do a lot more. You can go out on the street, advocating your POV. You can campaign. You can blog. You can pay money to those politicians whom you agree with.

Who do you vote for?

It varies. I do not align myself with any political party. That goes for both the local and national level elections.

Interestingly enough, I have never once voted for an incumbent polical party for the presidency. That's not a specfic deliberate choice, but it has just worked out that way. In the most recent presidential election, I voted for a 3rd party. The state I'm in is overwhelmingly to one political party, every presidential election. Since our electoral college for the presidency is an "all or nothing" system, the winning margin in each state doesn't matter. So I voted 3rd party, because I would like to see some of the 3rd party ideas getting more attention. One step is doing so is for people to start noticing them getting more votes.

 

[Beerina]

Cool. But I imagine there's also a condescending/intent to embarrass, mean spiritedness involved too, but that's human nature.
Some of the monetary values mentioned also seem to be more in keeping with “symbolic gestures”.

You don't think it's like the ending of It's a Wonderful Life?

Clarence: Remember, George: no man is a failure who has friends.

You guys don't think it's like that? Awwwww...

It brings a tear to my eye.


Harry "The Rest of the World" Bailey: A toast to my big brother George W.: The richest man in town.

 

[Bjorn]

Americans are “clearly the most generous on earth in public — but especially in private — giving”.

In public they are not, and I doubt they are in private.

The Norwegian government gave about $150 million to the tsunami victims, within a week Norwegian charity organizations had given $90 million extra.