Workplace Chaplains

[phyz]

Oh boy, when can I get one?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6777784

Workplace analysts report that a growing number of American companies are hiring chaplains to minister to their employees, offering counseling services and helping with family crises. Joyce Russell of Iowa Public Radio reports on a pork-processing plant that uses workplace chaplains.

There is no freedom of religion unless there is freedom *from* religion.

 

[brodski]

There is no freedom of religion unless there is freedom *from* religion.

Yeah, I'm disgusted that the government is forcing every workplace to hire someone to constantly proselytise to employees, and those that don't say amen when order to are taken outside and shot! Oh, wait.

These are private companies making decisions, probably based on the wishes of many of their employees, no ones right to religions freedom is being infringed here.

 

[drkitten]

There is no freedom of religion unless there is freedom *from* religion.

Huh?

Aside from the fact that under US Constitutional Law, companies can generally do whatever the hell they like -- constitutional restrictions are only on the government -- why does it matter to me whether or not the company hires a chaplain or not? As a stockholder, I might have something to say about the waste of money. But as an employee, a chaplain is yet another service that I don't have to use, rather like the company-sponsored nurse or the company-sponsored cooks in the canteen. Selling stale sandwiches on the first floor doesn't prevent me from going across the street to the deli for a rather nice one, does it?

 

[Garrette]

I wonder if at some point down the road the presence of chaplains and an openly religious atmosphere might be used in a civil suit much as a "hostile environment" can be used to win sexual harrassment suits.

 

[l0rca]

Is this thread what is meant by atheist fundamentalism?

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

I heard the story this morning. My main objection is that they’re apparently being used primarily as psychological counselors, even replacing Employee Assistance Programs sometimes.

I don’t know if chaplains need to get certified in counseling, but if not then shame on the companies for replacing potentially useful with definitely questionable; and if so, why not just hire a certified psychologist or social worker, or stick with the EAPs? All the positives, none of the negatives.

If it's a matter of the bottom line, then -- again -- shame on the companies for cheaping out. Be interesting to know the cost differentials.

 

[Dancing David]

I wonder if at some point down the road the presence of chaplains and an openly religious atmosphere might be used in a civil suit much as a "hostile environment" can be used to win sexual harrassment suits.

First you have to be a 'suspect class', and then there has to be allegation of discrimination. Hostile work enviroment the has to be proven, such as other workers harrasing another worker concerning religion.

 

[Dancing David]

I heard the story this morning. My main objection is that they’re apparently being used primarily as psychological counselors, even replacing Employee Assistance Programs sometimes.

I don’t know if chaplains need to get certified in counseling, but if not then shame on the companies for replacing potentially useful with definitely questionable; and if so, why not just hire a certified psychologist or social worker, or stick with the EAPs? All the positives, none of the negatives.

If it's a matter of the bottom line, then -- again -- shame on the companies for cheaping out. Be interesting to know the cost differentials.

I have similar concerns that people doing counseling have training.

OTOH most EAPs are not present in the work place, they don't come to you at your work site and they are often long waits and more formal procedures. The bottom line according to the story on NPR is that worker satisfaction is higher and employee turnover less.

I have accessed an EAP , I had tyo wait six weeks, then have the assesment, then trying to work into the schedule, it was a bite. And the MSW was also unprofessional and mentioned outside contact with me in our sessions without any reference (we had both attened 12 step programs), and I felt they crossed a boundary and then didn't even ask me my opinion.

I am concerned that there would be monitoring to prevent prostelyzation in the work place.

However the federal courts have been fairly open about religion in the work place as long as it is not the basis for discrimination. Unfortunately there have been cases where religous organizations can discriminate on the basis of religion, and the courts have allowed that.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Would only having a certain type of chaplain be grounds for discrimination/favoritism?

Having say a Protestant chaplain, but then what about say Jews and Muslims or even worse the wrong brand of christian?

It is a service offered but one that excludes a proportion of employees, and that seems like it might be discriminatory.

 

[ceo_esq]

There is no freedom of religion unless there is freedom *from* religion.

Hey, that's got kind of a ring to it.

There is no freedom of speech unless there is freedom *from* speech.

There is no freedom of the press unless there is freedom *from* the press.

There is no freedom of choice unless there is freedom *from* choice.

I think you may have hit upon something here, let's focus-group it.

 

[drkitten]

Would only having a certain type of chaplain be grounds for discrimination/favoritism?

Having say a Protestant chaplain, but then what about say Jews and Muslims or even worse the wrong brand of christian?

It is a service offered but one that excludes a proportion of employees, and that seems like it might be discriminatory.

I'm not sure how "exclusionary" the programs are. Just because the chaplain is a Protestant doesn't mean that he won't offer his services to Catholics and/or Jews. In this regard, it's similar to military chaplains -- usually the regs state that a military chaplain must be prepared and willing to minister to any solider, regardless of his religion or belief.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Hey, that's got kind of a ring to it.

There is no freedom of speech unless there is freedom *from* speech.

There is no freedom of the press unless there is freedom *from* the press.

There is no freedom of choice unless there is freedom *from* choice.

I think you may have hit upon something here, let's focus-group it.

To be free from religion is to be free from compulsions to participate in religious activities, just as freedom of speech includes being free from being compelled to say certain things. No one can force me to call the President an idiot. If a law were passed requiring that I call the President an idiot, it would undoubtably be challenged on First Ammendment grounds. Likewise, there is no freedom of the press if the press is compelled to write a particular story, and no freedom of choice if one is compelled to choose somthing.

There is no freedom of religion if we are compelled to participate in one.

 

[Garrette]

First you have to be a 'suspect class', and then there has to be allegation of discrimination. Hostile work enviroment the has to be proven, such as other workers harrasing another worker concerning religion.

I'm not a lawyer, but I think you are mistaken on the bolded part (the bolding is mine, not yours).

Regarding sexual harassment, a hostile work environment need not entail direct harassment. If management simply allows employees to hang Sports Illustrated calendars where viewable by other employees, that might be enough to indicate a hostile environment.

Likewise, the presence of a chaplain might be enough for a hostile religious environment. Or maybe not. Just wondering.

As an aside, as drkitten has touched upon, military chaplains are generally the de facto counselors in the unit, separate from any religious practice or prosyletization.

 

[phyz]

There is no freedom of speech unless there is freedom *from* speech.

There is no freedom of the press unless there is freedom *from* the press.

There is no freedom of choice unless there is freedom *from* choice.

It's telling that even you could see that your first two attempts at sarcasm made perfectly good sense on their own merit. Interesting that those two are the ones aligned with the US Constitution.

You had to fabricate the third out of, well, rule 8 being what it is I'll say you fabricated it out of thin air.

Keep tryin' though. You'll get something someday. Maybe. Then again, maybe not.

 

[Tanstaafl]

This reminds me a bit of the situation at the drag strip I race at. They have a chaplain there from Racers For Christ. I don't doubt that most of the racers are very glad to have him there. As for me, it doesn't really affect me in any way. Well, other than wearing out my eyes from rolling them so much.

I did get a good laugh out of the "Blessing of the Race Cars" ritual at the start of the season. Apparently these guys really believe that that will keep them out of the wall when they break an axel. Not likely. At least getting your car blessed was totally optional and there was no pressure of any sort to participate. So as I said, having a chaplain there really doesn't affect me at all, and it's their race track to run as they see fit.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

As an aside, as drkitten has touched upon, military chaplains are generally the de facto counselors in the unit, separate from any religious practice or prosyletization.

The training and certification requirements for counseling by chaplains in the military compare unfavorably to those in the civilian world.

http://www.usachcs.army.mil/TNGDIR/Enlist~1.htm

They do have other duties as well, including "combat lifesaving," so I don't mean to imply that they are inherently useless. I just don't think that the shamanic mouthpieces of imaginary creatures should do the work of trained counselors.

 

[Garrette]

The training and certification requirements for counseling by chaplains in the military compare unfavorably to those in the civilian world.

http://www.usachcs.army.mil/TNGDIR/Enlist~1.htm

They do have other duties as well, including "combat lifesaving," so I don't mean to imply that they are inherently useless. I just don't think that the shamanic mouthpieces of imaginary creatures should do the work of trained counselors.

Perhaps surprisingly, I agree with you. I did not say that military chaplains are effective counselors (though I know a couple who are), only that the responsibility for it generally falls to them.

 

[drkitten]

The training and certification requirements for counseling by chaplains in the military compare unfavorably to those in the civilian world.

http://www.usachcs.army.mil/TNGDIR/Enlist~1.htm

Um, you are aware that those are the training requirements for chaplain assistants, not the chaplains themselves? The counseling and stuff is usually done by the chaplains, in the same way that the acolytes and choir directors don't usually handle marriage counseling down at Our Lady of Perpetual Guilt.

Full-fledged chaplains are officers, and in order to become a chaplain, you must first be fully trained as a member of the clergy in whatever faith you happen to represent, with the appropriate training in pastoral care that your local seminary requires. Yes, "pastoral care" isn't necessarily the same thing as "counseling." But the situation's not as bad as you seem to think. Chaplain Mulcahy is no less qualified for his role than Father Brown is for his.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Um, you are aware that those are the training requirements for chaplain assistants, not the chaplains themselves? The counseling and stuff is usually done by the chaplains, in the same way that the acolytes and choir directors don't usually handle marriage counseling down at Our Lady of Perpetual Guilt.

Full-fledged chaplains are officers, and in order to become a chaplain, you must first be fully trained as a member of the clergy in whatever faith you happen to represent, with the appropriate training in pastoral care that your local seminary requires. Yes, "pastoral care" isn't necessarily the same thing as "counseling." But the situation's not as bad as you seem to think. Chaplain Mulcahy is no less qualified for his role than Father Brown is for his.

Darn, I picked up the enlisted description not the ones for officers.

Here's the ones for officers.



http://www.goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=317#training

Training

Chaplains do not go through Basic Training. Instead, they attend the Chaplain Officer Basic Course (CHOBC), which is a 12-week course taught at Fort Jackson, S.C. It will provide you with an introduction to the non-combatant common core skills, Army writing and Chaplaincy-specific training. The Army will neither require nor allow you to bear arms as part of your military duties.

. . .which still compare unfavorably to counselors in the civilian world. A preist with three months of training is no substitute for a professional.

 

[joobz]

There is no freedom of choice unless there is freedom *from* choice.

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a Choice!"-Geddy lee