With a cease-fire like this, who needs war?

[gtc]

This is an interesting condition on the pizzaidf site regarding the type of soday they send:

*Pepsi or Coca-Cola (Coke) depending on the hechsher (kosher supervision) of the delivering pizzeria.

Care to explain Mycroft?

Just trying to understand their motives. I hear that is just as important when dealing with kosher soda drinkers as it is when dealing with the victims of bananna poisoning.

 

[webfusion]

motives?

gtc, your question is cryptic.

what are you asking?

------------------------------------------------------
August 1st, 2005
02:59 Palestinians fire mortar shell at Gush Katif settlement; no casualties (Army Radio)
02:24 Palestinians fire Qassam at Sderot in western Negev; no casualties (Army Radio)
02:00 Senior IAF officer: Qassam fire may increase after Gaza pullout (Army Radio)


Increased rocket fire after there are no more Gaza jewish settlements?
Where's the logic in that?

 

[gtc]

Why should pepsi be kosher in one pizzaria but not in another?

And what goes on a kosher pizza given you can't mix meat and dairy (in my limited knowledge).

 

[Mycroft]

Why should pepsi be kosher in one pizzaria but not in another?

And what goes on a kosher pizza given you can't mix meat and dairy (in my limited knowledge).

I'm sorry but I'm not an expert on Kosher rules and can't answere your questions. In addition, I only advocate Pizza for the IDF because I found their website one day while web-surfing and thought it was a great way to boost the moral of people who are much maligned in the world press. I am not an official spokesperson for the group and am not privy to any inside information. I assume they make provisions to respect the dietary restrictions of the people they serve, but I don't feel the need to concern myself personally with the details.

I can say that a Kosher pizza would be either vegatarian, without cheese, or use some meat other than cow.

If you're ever in a situation where you might have to prepare a meal for someone who observes Kosher or Halal, a simple way to make sure you get it right is to just go vegitarian.

 

[a_unique_person]

Re: motives?

gtc, your question is cryptic.

what are you asking?

------------------------------------------------------
August 1st, 2005
02:59 Palestinians fire mortar shell at Gush Katif settlement; no casualties (Army Radio)
02:24 Palestinians fire Qassam at Sderot in western Negev; no casualties (Army Radio)
02:00 Senior IAF officer: Qassam fire may increase after Gaza pullout (Army Radio)


Increased rocket fire after there are no more Gaza jewish settlements?
Where's the logic in that?

The logic was discussed well before the pullout started. The logic is that the only significant pullout from the West Bank and Gaza has been due to attacks on these areas. The Oslo accord only produced more land being 'settled'. You tell me what works?

 

[demon]

What do the IDF do with them?
Use them for target practice?

 

[a_unique_person]

If you think I've misinterpreted your words, you're more than welcome to explain how. Othwerwise, if you choose to be offensive, you can't very well hold me responsible for how you present yourself.



I don't care how your awakening happened. So long as you mangle history, distort the truth, deny evidence, and apply double standards, I will correct you at every opportunity.

David Duke? I have never made any such insinuations about you, but you make these offensive accusations repeatedly about me. I have no idea what is on that site, because I have never been to it. I have had no 'awakening'. The most reliable source of news I have found on this issue is Haaretz, an Israeli publication.

your insistence on labelling me this way is because you have no other comeback. your intellectual dishonesty is all you have left in your toolbox of tricks.

And three years ago I didn't know Israel from Cancun. Fact-checking your propaganda campaign has taught me a lot.

More like running away from argument. I would never claim to be 100% accurate, nor would I ever expect anyone to trust what I say. That is why I debate here, and not hang around hate sites.

Right. You're anti-Semitism is my fault. I drove you to it by debating with you. Everyone should just be silent while you demonize a nation, otherwise you might come to dislike Jews.

So what do you call it when Haaretz claims that land has been stolen from Palestinians that they legally owned? you call facts anti-semitism, it is your only recourse.

Confusing Jews with Israelis again, huh?

No, just referring to those Jews who supported the occupation. There are many in the US who seem more intent on supporting it than actual israelis, look at the protests that were supposed to gather 100,000 marchers.

Exactly who do you think I am that you wonder what I represent?



So disagreeing with you on how bad Israel and Jews are is cause to hate Israel. I can't imagine a better example of bigoted logic.

Don't believe me, but you discredit Israel far more than I ever could, if that was my intent. The utter inability to do anything other than deny facts such as theft of land makes you amount to little more than a creationist, or similar.

 

[The Fool]

Thank you for bringing that up.

They do more than buy Pizza for the IDF. On hot days they can buy sodas or cold fruit soup too.

It's a small thing, really, but I think it's an important moral booster to let them know that internationally not everyone thinks they're baby-killers. It's a tough job they do, and even though I'm not an Israeli, I want to let them know they're appreciated.

http://www.pizzaidf.org/

Thats nice....Have you ever considered the international red cross for your support money? You may be able to help save a life rather than hand out pizzas to soldiers...

 

[webfusion]

pizza pazza

OK, here goes (sorry for the derail, please just bear with us here for a while while we have a little 'cease-fire' in the forum topic and discuss the finer points of kosher pizzas & sodas)

1. Pizza is a dairy item and to be kosher should not be embellished with any meat product toppings. Put whatever you want on there that is fruit or vegetable (even bananas if you are so inclined) but no meat: like pepperoni or sausage or bacon (!!!).

2. Pepsi and Coke are both kosher. The different pizzerias subscribe to different kosher supervision authorities (known as the 'hechsher'). Depending on what pizza joint you order from, they will send whatever soda they have in stock. It's all quite obscure to the average IDF soldier. However, to the religiously-observant, it's very important to only consume a product that is BADATZ kosher (at the highest level). These rabbinical authorities are paid quite large sums of $$$ to give their "blessings" ----- It so happens that in Israel, Coca Cola has the blessing of a more widely-accepted rabbinical group (JERUSALEM BADATZ) than does Pepsi (or even RC-cola).

One school of thought on this says that Pepsi is considered to be somehow 'less kosher' because of their long-standing boycott of selling their product Israel (not until 1991 did PepsiCo. decide to break this Arab-led boycott and introduced their brand to Israel).

To this day, many Arabs are unhappy with Pepsi.
http://www.palestinecampaign.org/archives.asp?xid=866

One enterprising Arab guy even introduced his own line of fizzy sweetened flavored water beverage to compete with the giant bottlers:
Mecca Cola


As for the entire discussion of kosher "certification" I draw your attention to this article which rants about the subject.
http://www.ukar.org/asper/asper02.html

and also this piece about the overall subject of kosher foods, in general:
http://www.ok.org/Content.asp?ID=189


[/ end derail]

 

[gtc]

To continue the derail,

What do the IDF do with them?
Use them for target practice?

I suspect (but this is only a hunch) that they eat them.

According to anecdotal evidence they may also use them to poison Australian school children if they do not have banannas to hand or use them in asassination attempts.

Snopes has an interesting article on the boycotts. Basically both Pepsi and Coke gave the appearance of boycotting Israel rather than facing a boycott in the broader middle east market. Things changed when pressure from American consumers tipped the balance. Interesting.

 

[Mycroft]

Thats nice....Have you ever considered the international red cross for your support money? You may be able to help save a life rather than hand out pizzas to soldiers...

Not in Israel. Magen David Adom is not allowed membership in the International Red Cross. But you're right, they are a worthy charity.

http://www.ukmda.org/

How much you gonna donate?

As for myself, I like the idea of giving pizzas to soldiers. They're asked to do a tough and thankless job, and I think it's cool if someone thanks them for it. It's sort of like when my wife bakes bread for the guys at our local fire station. It's the same concept, only half a world away.

I'm sorry if that offends you.

 

[Mycroft]

So what do you call it when Haaretz claims that land has been stolen from Palestinians that they legally owned? you call facts anti-semitism, it is your only recourse.

You still don't get it. I say it again and again, and you refuse to get it.

I call you an anti-Semite.

You.

Not any article in Ha'aretz.

Not everyone who disagrees with me.

Not everyone who criticizes Israel.

You.

Just you.

Your own unique self.

Why?

Because other people can criticize Israeli policies and still show sympathy for Israeli needs and goals. Because other people can see both the good and bad that Israel does. Because other people do not need to twist themselves in knots constantly interpreting every Israeli action in its worst light while interpreting every Palestinian-Arab action in it's most positive way.

Because other people, even when they sympathize with the Palestinian-Arabs, can at least recognize when they are breaking a cease fire and don't feel a psychological need to revise history to make that cease-fire go away.

 

[The Fool]

Not in Israel. Magen David Adom is not allowed membership in the International Red Cross. But you're right, they are a worthy charity.

http://www.ukmda.org/

How much you gonna donate?

who I support is my business but i"ll tell you one thing...it goes beyond a gimmick pizza site that I advertise in my sig.

As for myself, I like the idea of giving pizzas to soldiers. They're asked to do a tough and thankless job, and I think it's cool if someone thanks them for it. It's sort of like when my wife bakes bread for the guys at our local fire station. It's the same concept, only half a world away.

I'm sorry if that offends you.

Of course it doesn't offend me, its a good indicator of how seriously you are concerned about the middle east. You can tell your grandchindren that you helped fight the great Pizza shortages that caused so much human suffering in the middle east

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by The Fool
who I support is my business but i"ll tell you one thing...it goes beyond a gimmick pizza site that I advertise in my sig.

Charity is a part of our normal household routine. We give money to causes we support, we volunteer with local organizations that need help, and we make an effort to spend our money in a socially conscious way. I'm certainly glad you also make an effort to give support where needed, but you make a logical error in assuming that because you learn of one organization I've given money to that you've also discovered where I place my greatest efforts. That is, of course, silly.

Originally posted by The Fool
Of course it doesn't offend me, its a good indicator of how seriously you are concerned about the middle east. You can tell your grandchindren that you helped fight the great Pizza shortages that caused so much human suffering in the middle east.

Translation: It really does offend you.

Why you would begrudge a fellow soldier a small treat and a show of good will, I don't know, but I will say this topic is over for me. This thread has been de-railed long enough.

 

[The Fool]

Why you would begrudge a fellow soldier a small treat and a show of good will, I don't know, but I will say this topic is over for me. This thread has been de-railed long enough.

Jeebus Mycroft don't give up now!!! You are just starting to warm up....Think what Charles would do...would he get discouraged?
NO.....fight on....LGF on Jref is within your reach!!!

 

[kimiko]

Baiting is a form of harassment where you purposefully say something to incite an angry response from someone. ...

Let's examine:

”Hmmm, now if I said that the Jews want to take all the land off the Palestinians, would there be uproar here?”

For starters, it says “If I said....”, which gives you plausible deniability. If it prompted someone to say, ”Wow, you're quite the anti-Semitic turd” you could always claim you didn't say it, you just asked what if. Clever.

Here's a quote from you demonstrating the same tactic:

So if I were to excuse your bad behavior by saying, "Poor Kimiko, he/she doesn't know any better." Wouldn't you feel patronized?

I don't care how your awakening happened. So long as you mangle history, distort the truth, deny evidence, and apply double standards, I will correct you at every opportunity.

David Duke? That's rather inflammatory. There is a thread in Community waiting for you to list a representative sample of AUP's posts, and explain them. Your accusations are empty and nothing more than poisoning readers against AUP until you do the work to support them and post the samples.

I'm certainly glad you also make an effort to give support where needed, but you make a logical error in assuming that because you learn of one organization I've given money to that you've also discovered where I place my greatest efforts. That is, of course, silly.

Since there is only one link in your substantial sig concerning charity, it is not illogical to count that as evidence of that charity being the most important to you. It may not be the correct conclusion, but it is perfectly logical. The premise it hinges on is that if one is going to publicize a single charity out of multiple causes, it will be the one most important or the most in need of assistance.

 

[Darat]

This thread has been brought to my attention. There have been some recent very heated exchanges that should have subjected to Moderation action however I consider it is too late to take that action now. I will ensure I will follow this thread for the next couple of days whether it is reported or not to ensure heated exchanges do not flare up again. Alongside that I am warning The Fool, Mycroft and a_unique_person that continuing to concentrate on the personal issue you have with other Members, including direct and implied insults will result in suspension from the "Politics..." section for a period of seven days.

As always any discussion of Moderation matters should be taken to "Forum Management".

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[webfusion]

define violence...

I don't see any violence.

(this was the one-line response generated by my posting a photo of tires&gasoline fires raging during a recent anti-barrier protest, which photo was itself offered to illustrate one aspect of palestinian violence perpetrated ad-nauseum throughout the territories for the past 18 years of intifada).

The intifada began in 1987 with violence directed at the IDF who were securing roads (roads travelled by jews and non-jews alike), manning checkpoints (including several that were set up at the seams of the Green Lines, like border-crossings between two nations) and patrolling towns and villages as the de-facto law-enforcement agency. This outbreak of lawlessness quickly spread and led to the brutal homicide-bombing violence being directed at the Israeli population centers, and now to the launching of rockets and mortars AT CIVILIAN TARGETS.

Is the fence protest being carried-out in order to say:
"Stop the fence and the palestinian terrorists will stop"?
Is any protestor claiming that the palestinian violence is wrong? That the suicide attacks are wrong?
No, I don't hear that being offered.
What I hear is that Israel should stop the security barrier construction and let the river of blood and palestinian-terror & violence just flow onwards unabated.

I would be impressed if just one protestor held up a sign or gave an interview with the media (ever-present during the protesting) and came out saying:
NO! to terror. Stop the suicide bombing! Stop the rocket attacks. Stop the shooting.

You don't see any violence? Hmmmmmmmm.
Look harder.

 

[a_unique_person]

Re: define violence...

(this was the one-line response generated by my posting a photo of tires&gasoline fires raging during a recent anti-barrier protest, which photo was itself offered to illustrate one aspect of palestinian violence perpetrated ad-nauseum throughout the territories for the past 18 years of intifada).

past 18 years of 30 of occupation?

The intifada began in 1987 with violence directed at the IDF who were securing roads (roads travelled by jews and non-jews alike), manning checkpoints (including several that were set up at the seams of the Green Lines, like border-crossings between two nations) and patrolling towns and villages as the de-facto law-enforcement agency. This outbreak of lawlessness quickly spread and led to the brutal homicide-bombing violence being directed at the Israeli population centers, and now to the launching of rockets and mortars AT CIVILIAN TARGETS.

Is the fence protest being carried-out in order to say:
"Stop the fence and the palestinian terrorists will stop"?
Is any protestor claiming that the palestinian violence is wrong? That the suicide attacks are wrong?
No, I don't hear that being offered.
What I hear is that Israel should stop the security barrier construction and let the river of blood and palestinian-terror & violence just flow onwards unabated.

I would be impressed if just one protestor held up a sign or gave an interview with the media (ever-present during the protesting) and came out saying:
NO! to terror. Stop the suicide bombing! Stop the rocket attacks. Stop the shooting.

You don't see any violence? Hmmmmmmmm.
Look harder.

I still don't see why peaceful protest is not allowed, and if it is happening, the protesters are fitted up to be violence.

 

[zenith-nadir]

I would be impressed if just one protestor held up a sign or gave an interview with the media (ever-present during the protesting) and came out saying:
NO! to terror. Stop the suicide bombing! Stop the rocket attacks. Stop the shooting.

The disconnect most pundits fail to acknowledge when it comes to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is Islamic fundamentalism. Now that Islamic fundamentalism is hitting New York, Bali, Ankara, Madrid and London some peoples eyes are opening to Arafraud's legacy. Arafraud used anybody he could including islamic fundamentalist groups to wage war on Israel under the guise of Palestinian Nationalism. Many feel that these islamic fundamentalist groups are still simply "resisiting the occupation" when in fact they are trying to destroy Israel.

A perfect example of this "emporer who has no clothes" is documented right here in this thread. Even when the Palestinian Authority commanded the "Palestinians resisting occupation" to stop for the good of Palestinian Nationalism they attacked the Palestinian Authority and continued to suicide bomb Israel, launch rockets and mortars at Israel, kidnap Fatah members and ambush settlers.

Eventually people will see the light or they will remain in the dark - (see: a_u_p) - and believe the propoganda which is perpetuated by media outlets:

PA blames Israel for Abbas' weakness

HERZLIYA, Israel, July 31 (UPI) -- A Palestinian minister Sunday blamed Israel for Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas's weakness.

They're portraying Abu Mazen (Abbas' nickname) as weak," Prisoners' Affairs Minister Sufian Abu Zaydeh told a meeting in Herzliya organized to drum up support for the Geneva Initiative for peace.

"How will he have tools (to rule) when his policemen have no tools? With what to fight?"

Abu Zaydeh described an instance in which a policeman went out with a team and a gun -- but with bullets that were outdated.

"There were many cases in which a policemen wanted to shoot and nothing came out," he said.

On the other hand, Hamas smuggles arms from Egypt, he said.

Israel has refused to authorize more ammunition for the Palestinians, reportedly saying there is enough to go around there.

Turnspeak. Israel is to blame for Abbas being weak. Israel is to blame for Palestinian police having no "tools". Israel is to blame for Hamas outgunning the Palestinian Police, etc, etc, etc.....

After hearing "Israel is to blame" for 30 years one must eventually ask oneself if Israel could possible be the cause of everything Palestinian....