With a cease-fire like this, who needs war?

[zenith-nadir]

As Cleon said once, the Palestinians have got the short end of the stick. That's all I have claimed, from the start.

Top 4 reasons the Palestinians have the short end of the stick a_u_p;

• The first real leader of the Palestinians, Haj Amin Al-Husseini, led anti-jewish riots in the 20s, 30s and conspired with Hitler to wipe out the jews in the 40s.
• The Arab states - along with the Palestinians - tried to destroy Israel by wars in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973.
• The PLO - the Palestinian nationalist umbrella organization - used fedayeen militia groups to terrorize and murder Israelis across the globe in the 60s, 70s and 80s.
• The second real leader of the Palestinians - and leader of the PLO - Yasser Arafat, became the President of the Palestinian Authority and continued to support/harbor/finance fedayeen militia groups to terrorize and murder Israelis throughout the 90s into the 21st century.

The Palestinians have the short end of the stick because Haj Amin Al-Husseini, the Arab states, the PLO, Yasser Arafat and thousands upon thousands of Palestinians have spent the best part of a century killing jews and trying to destroy Israel.

How can I prove that?

The Palestinian violence predates the Haganah a_u_p... it predates the Irgun, it predates Israel, it predates the occupation, it predates the settlements, it predates Sharon, it predates the bulldozing, it predates the checkpoints, it predates the security wall....that is how I can prove that a settlement is not the reason for a Palestinian teenager to decide one day to strap on a bomb vest and blow up in an Israeli restaurant. He/she does it because it has been "the way" for nearly a century.

 

[webfusion]

side note

http://www.theisraelproject.org/conference/

June 26-27 Washington DC

-------------------------------------------------

Meanwhile,
Lebanon's president says "war with Israel is legitimate"


And while the leader of Lebanon makes such bellicose statements, we have this gem from the Iranian/Syrian-backed terrorists who control Southern Lebanon ----
"Hezbollah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah Wednesday acknowledged for first time that his Lebanese guerrilla group has more than 12,000 rockets and that all of northern Israel is within reach.

"All of the north of occupied Palestine, its settlements, airports, seaports, fields, factories and farms is under the feet and hands of the Islamic resistance," Nasrallah said.

This comes from the mouths of the leaders in a nation (Lebanon) that Israel does NOT occupy at all.
How can the Palestinians be expected to offer words less strident?!!!

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
You haven't read what I said only a few posts before, or you have forgotten it already.

Read it. It appears you're in denial that the Palestinian-Arab leadership has been purposefully creating and maintaining a culture of hate for the past 12 years with the aim of keeping the rate of violence directed at Israelis high. You also seem to be in denial as to the role these actions have played in maintaining the climate where young people think that aspiring to be a suicide-bomber is a noble ambition, instead preferring to place all responsibility for this on Israel, despite evidence to the contrary.

Now if there is some other way I should iterpret your words, you're free to tell me what it is.

Originally posted by a_unique_person
Perhaps my stubborness can be explained by my refusal to cop a dishonest accusation.

What dishonest accusation? Are you denying you've been running an anti-Israel propaganda campaign for the past several years?

Originally posted by a_unique_person
As Cleon said once, the Palestinians have got the short end of the stick. That's all I have claimed, from the start.

Nobody disagrees with that. The reason I call you a bigot is your continuing denial (historical revisionism) of any role the Palestinian-Arabs have played in creating and perpetuating the conflict where they keep comming out on the short end of the stick. I also think you're prejudiced because you (and the Fool) continue to deny the Palestinian-Arabs have any role and responsibilities to play in ending the conflict.

 

[Ryokan]

If suicide bombing is the only answer to occupation and humiliation why is it a muslim phenomenon? Are there no other people on earth occupied or humiliated? And yes, I am singling out muslims because in the past 15 years 9.999 times out of ten suicide bombers around the world have been proven to be muslim.

Sri Lankan Tamils are Catholics, and have been quite succesful with their suicide bombing tactics.

 

[The Fool]

I also think you're prejudiced because you (and the Fool) continue to deny the Palestinian-Arabs have any role and responsibilities to play in ending the conflict.

Please show one example of me doing this, just one example will do. If I "continue" to do it as you claim then one example should take you ....ummmmmm.....2 minutes to find? 10 minutes? How about I give you a year? Want to know why you won't find it?Because its not there Mycroft.....not there. your lying is tedious.

ok, off you go...don't let fear of failure prevent you from having a good hard look.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by The Fool
Please show one example of me doing this, just one example will do. If I "continue" to do it as you claim then one example should take you ....ummmmmm.....2 minutes to find? 10 minutes? How about I give you a year? Want to know why you won't find it?Because its not there Mycroft.....not there. your lying is tedious.

About a month ago I presented to you a list of nine things Palestinian-Arabs could do to promote peace including such basics as refraining from preaching hate and violence and you dismissed the entire list, taking the attitude that the Palestinian-Arabs shouldn't be expected to do anything at all, not even maintain a cease-fire.

Later, when Zenith-Nadir talked about the Palestinian-Authority arresting terrorists who break the cease-fire (as they agreed they would do by treaty, as they are required to do by the road-map) you ridiculed the idea, saying we expected the Palestinian-Arabs to "auto-repress" themselves.

That's what I can think of off the top of my head. No, I'm not going to hunt them down and provide links, but if you recall these conversations differently than I do you're more than welcome to.

Or...if you really want to prove me wrong, you could just make a list of things you think the Palestinian-Arabs should be doing to promote peace. My guess is that would be a very short list as you dismiss or ridicule anything anyone else comes up with.

Originally posted by The Fool
ok, off you go...don't let fear of failure prevent you from having a good hard look.

Baiting ignored.

 

[The Fool]

That's what I can think of off the top of my head. No, I'm not going to hunt them down and provide links, but if you recall these conversations differently than I do you're more than welcome to.

Garbage...its your lie and you want me to look for it? I've told you Im not interested in your opinions of what my opinions are....I want you to find a single example of me denying that palestinian arabs have any role and responsibilities to play in ending the conflict.

You are a lying pest...either back up your claims with evidence or stop libeling me with this garbage.

You say I have denied it...that is a lie...put up or shut up and go away....I've lost my patience with you, but then again thats probably your aim.

Edited to add: I just went looked back a short ways and found a recent statement of mine on who is to "blame"...

"Every day more and more moderates are turned into extremists on both sides by the two great curses of the Arab Israeli conflict...Arab terrorism and Israeli occupation."

Is that statement consistant with your lie?

 

[Mycroft]

Garbage...its your lie and you want me to look for it? I've told you Im not interested in your opinions of what my opinions are....I want you to find a single example of me denying that palestinian arabs have any role and responsibilities to play in ending the conflict.

You grow tiresome. You asked for examples and I gave them to you. If you want to claim senility and pretend not to remember, too bad for you.

 

[a_unique_person]

Read it. It appears you're in denial that the Palestinian-Arab leadership has been purposefully creating and maintaining a culture of hate for the past 12 years with the aim of keeping the rate of violence directed at Israelis high. You also seem to be in denial as to the role these actions have played in maintaining the climate where young people think that aspiring to be a suicide-bomber is a noble ambition, instead preferring to place all responsibility for this on Israel, despite evidence to the contrary.

I don't deny that there is hatred that is being encouraged, but there is also hatred at Israel for the occupation.

Now if there is some other way I should iterpret your words, you're free to tell me what it is.



What dishonest accusation? Are you denying you've been running an anti-Israel propaganda campaign for the past several years?

Absolutely.

Nobody disagrees with that. The reason I call you a bigot is your continuing denial (historical revisionism) of any role the Palestinian-Arabs have played in creating and perpetuating the conflict where they keep comming out on the short end of the stick. I also think you're prejudiced because you (and the Fool) continue to deny the Palestinian-Arabs have any role and responsibilities to play in ending the conflict.

Creating is one of the big sticking points of the whole issue. As has been repeatedly confirmed, officially and by extremists Jews, the whole point is to create a Jewish State, something that Arabs in the area have a big problem with. It is an intrinsically racist notion. Now, a racist reaction is blamed entirely on those subject to one.

South Africa has abandoned such a path, Australia was an unabashadly racist country till the 1960's. Israel has to abandon such a notion, IMHO. Take it or leave it.

 

[zenith-nadir]

I don't deny that there is hatred that is being encouraged, but there is also hatred at Israel for the occupation.

This is what is so funny about you a_u_p. You can't lay the responsibility for nearly a century of incitement by Arab and Palestinian leaders without going "but" and adding at least one Israel reference. The hatered and incitement by Arab and Palestinian leaders began before the Haganah, before the Irgun, before Israel exsisted, before settlements, before the occupation, before Sharon, checkpoints, bulldozers, etc.

The Haganah was created because Arab and Palestinian leaders were attacking and killing jews in the 20's. The occupation happened because Syria, Jordan and Egypt were shelling Israel, kicking out UN peacekeepers, blockading Israeli shipping and massing their forces at Israel borders. The checkpoints and bulldozers and targetted killings happened because Arafat and the Palestinian Authority/PLO supported/harbored/financed fedayeen militia groups to terrorize and murder Israelis for nearly 40 years.

It's a function of "cause" and "effect". In your world - and the fools it seems - the "effect" is the reason for the "cause". It's truely baffling.

Creating is one of the big sticking points of the whole issue. As has been repeatedly confirmed, officially and by extremists Jews, the whole point is to create a Jewish State, something that Arabs in the area have a big problem with.

Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE RACIST AGAINST JEWS EINSTEIN! 220,000,000 Arabs in 22 Arab nations have a problem with 5.9 million jews living near them on 8000 sq miles of land. Hell, 98% of all jews were expelled from their homes in Arab countries in the 40s and 50s. This is an Arab problem, not an Israeli problem.

It is an intrinsically racist notion. Now, a racist reaction is blamed entirely on those subject to one.

Israel doesn't control 220,000,000 Arabs. They are not "subject to Israeli racism". Quite the contrary, Israel is subject to Arab racism that is so easily documented I won't even bother.

South Africa has abandoned such a path, Australia was an unabashadly racist country till the 1960's. Israel has to abandon such a notion, IMHO. Take it or leave it.

So only if Israel abandons "racism" then all will be well in the Arab world....you slay me...

 

[a_unique_person]

Mr Smiley, you made a factual claim, 9.999 out of ten. Now justify it.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
I don't deny that there is hatred that is being encouraged, but there is also hatred at Israel for the occupation.

The occupation is a result of the continuing conflict, so it’s somewhat dishonest to blame Israel for this hatred without also acknowledging the role the Arab nations have played in creating it. In truth, any conflict will create hate and anger on both sides, but it’s only when Arafat and other Palestinian-Arab leaders channel this anger into creating a cultural worship of martyrdom that the suicide-bomber is created. That this is done at precisely the same time that Arafat is publicly promising to end terror increases his culpability. That you minimize and deny this is why I think you’re a bigot.

Originally posted by a_unique_person
Absolutely.

I’m not sure which is worse, that you might truly believe this or that you could lie so blatantly.

Originally posted by a_unique_person
Creating is one of the big sticking points of the whole issue. As has been repeatedly confirmed, officially and by extremists Jews, the whole point is to create a Jewish State, something that Arabs in the area have a big problem with. It is an intrinsically racist notion. Now, a racist reaction is blamed entirely on those subject to one.

What an interesting change in topic. I charge you with denying the role the Palestinian-Arabs have played in creating the conflict and with denying that they have any responsibility in ending the conflict, and you just sort of side-step those charges and say something completely unrelated. This is typical of your argumentative style.

Originally posted by a_unique_person
South Africa has abandoned such a path, Australia was an unabashadly racist country till the 1960's. Israel has to abandon such a notion, IMHO. Take it or leave it.

More dishonesty. Israel does not struggle with the Palestinian-Arabs because they are racist but because the leadership of the Palestinian-Arabs keep provoking them into violence.

There are certainly aspects of racism in this conflict, but from the organized anti-Jewish riots of the 20’s, to the racial incitement on PA television in the 90’s to the very recent promotion of the Protocol’s of the Elders of Zion on the official PA website, it has been predominantly anti-Jewish racism.

 

[a_unique_person]

The occupation is a result of the continuing conflict,

You know perfectly well that is not the case. The occupation allowed the expansion of the settlements. Sharon now believes Israel has grabbed as much as it can, and is building the fence and pulling out of Gaza. That's what the occupation was about.

I’m not sure which is worse, that you might truly believe this or that you could lie so blatantly.

I can't help it if you are a delusional liar. Refer previous point.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
You know perfectly well that is not the case. The occupation allowed the expansion of the settlements. Sharon now believes Israel has grabbed as much as it can, and is building the fence and pulling out of Gaza. That's what the occupation was about.

Notice again the subtle shift in topic. You were blaming Israel for suicide bombings, now you're putting forth a woo-woo conspiracy theory. Read about the Six Day War here.

Originally posted by a_unique_person
I can't help it if you are a delusional liar. Refer previous point.

The funny part here is you're putting forth this woo-woo theory on the Six Day War, and now you're calling me a "delusional liar" for calling you an anti-Israel propagandist. Ironic, huh?

 

[a_unique_person]

Notice again the subtle shift in topic. You were blaming Israel for suicide bombings, now you're putting forth a woo-woo conspiracy theory. Read about the Six Day War here.



The funny part here is you're putting forth this woo-woo theory on the Six Day War, and now you're calling me a "delusional liar" for calling you an anti-Israel propagandist. Ironic, huh?

Subtle shift in topic? Notice the subtle shift in topic. WTF? I try to state a fact about the occupation, and you are now accusing me of something I never mentioned. On that basis, I am a delusional liar. Because you have accused, tried, and and found me guilty of something I didn't do, and, once again, I have been very 'subtle' about it. Well **** you. That's where I draw the line, I have done so in the past, and I will do it every time in the future.

 

[Mycroft]

Subtle shift in topic? Notice the subtle shift in topic. WTF? I try to state a fact about the occupation, and you are now accusing me of something I never mentioned. On that basis, I am a delusional liar. Because you have accused, tried, and and found me guilty of something I didn't do, and, once again, I have been very 'subtle' about it. Well **** you. That's where I draw the line, I have done so in the past, and I will do it every time in the future.

I'm sorry you don't like the way you're perceived. Three guesses on how you can change it.

You can start by avoiding the woo-woo mind reading exercises, "Sharon now believes..." and the historical revisionism, and acknowledge that desperation causes people to sue for peace and get angry at their own leaders who torpedo the process, and artificially created aspiration through manipulation of the culture by the Palestinian-Authority is what channels anger into becoming suicide bombers.

 

[a_unique_person]

http://randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55860&highlight=sharon

 

[Mycroft]

http://randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55860&highlight=sharon

This doesn't support anything you're trying to say in this thread.

Still, that's typical AUP. Exhaust yourself on one topic, just change to another and hope nobody notices the shift.

 

[a_unique_person]

This doesn't support anything you're trying to say in this thread.

Still, that's typical AUP. Exhaust yourself on one topic, just change to another and hope nobody notices the shift.

It's exactly what I am basing my argument on, Sharon's own words. He has decided what the boundaries are, where the populations are to be divided, and is in the process of sealing it all off.

 

[Mycroft]

It's exactly what I am basing my argument on, Sharon's own words. He has decided what the boundaries are, where the populations are to be divided, and is in the process of sealing it all off.

That's why I said it's a different topic. Your initial point was "I don't deny that there is hatred that is being encouraged, but there is also hatred at Israel for the occupation." in response to my saying you're in denial about the PA creating cultural support for suicide bombing.

If you want to argue this new topic, fine. You know I'll argue anything with you all day long. Just have the honesty to admit that your theories on Sharon's strategies are a different topic from how the Palestinian Authority promotes suicide-terror.

On this new topic I'll remind you it would be moot had Arafat followed the Oslo plan began back in 1993, that he would have had an independent Palestinian state in 1998, years before Sharon came to power. Instead, we had the first suicide-bombing back in 1994 (remember this factoid Webfuson brought up?) during the very period your revisionist history claims Arafat was "doing the best he could" to control terror.

Since Arafat didn’t follow the plan, since Palestinian compliance with every agreement since has been non-existent (the topic of this thread, nobody really expects them to cease-firing even when there is a cease-fire) I fail to see the problem with Sharon having a unilateral decision ready to implement just in case Abbas doesn’t live up to expectations. If it’s as you describe (meaning if your psyching powers prove real) it would end the occupation and create peace.