Wisconsin judge strikes down collective bargaining restrictions

[BenBurch]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/05...e.bargaining/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn

(CNN) -- A Wisconsin judge struck down that state's controversial new collective bargaining law Thursday, ruling that GOP legislators failed to provide sufficient public notice before passing the measure this year.

Judge Maryann Sumi had previously issued a temporary restraining order to prevent the measure from taking effect.

The Wisconsin Supreme Court is scheduled to hear arguments on June 6 to determine whether it will consider the case.

<SNIP>

 

[Alferd_Packer]

nm

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I predict the GOP legislators will now provide sufficient notice and revote with the exact same outcome.

 

[BenBurch]

I predict the GOP legislators will now provide sufficient notice and revote with the exact same outcome.

Can they get the votes this time?

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Can they get the votes this time?

I don't see why not. The numbers are the same.

 

[Travis]

Except now they know how hated they are for deciding to come out so blatantly against the working class.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Except now they know how hated they are for deciding to come out so blatantly against the working class.

They're "hated" by people who wouldn't have voted for them in the first place.

I'm doing work in Madison right now. One thing to keep in mind is that Madison <> the rest of Wisconsin.

 

[Dr. Keith]

They're "hated" by people who wouldn't have voted for them in the first place.

I'm doing work in Madison right now. One thing to keep in mind is that Madison <> the rest of Wisconsin.

Typically, I would agree with that analysis, but I have seen some staunch GOP members locally go ballistic over this. The problem is that these aren't ugly auto workers or steel workers, these are teachers and firefighters and policemen. That's a completely different set of union voters.

Most of the teachers and firefighters and policemen I know are GOP members and vote GOP. *********** with their union will change that. Being seen to endorse such moves will change that. No GOP politicians in Texas are looking to follow Wisconsin's lead on this.

Actually, I see some GOP candidates getting pressure over recent cuts to education. The GOP voters don't like government spending, but they love their kid's school. Seeing cuts at their own school will bring out the votes.

 

[BenBurch]

I don't see why not. The numbers are the same.

Some people elected by small margins may not be willing to vote for it a second time.

 

[Emet]

Opinion piece in the WaPo (FWIW):

(...)
This does not mean that the Walker proposal has been defeated. It could go to the Supreme Court, which will decide in June whether to hear the case. But it’s still a big boost for Wisconsin Democrats and the recall effort.

Here’s why. It gives Democrats and labor a powerful new weapon to make the case that Wisconsin Republicans deserved to be recalled because they abused the power of their office. The argument Dems and labor are making is that the decision by Senate Republicans to jam the rollback of bargaining rights through is precisely the kind of conduct that justifies the extraordinary step of recalling them. Now a court has pronounced that they violated state law.
(...)
Second, and equally important, the court’s decision today raises the possiblity that Republicans may be forced to vote on their rollback of bargaining rights again. The budget needs to be wrapped up by the end of June, and Republicans have said that if the bargaining rights proposal is still tied up in court by then, they’ll vote on it again. The Wisconsin Supreme Court might not take the case, or could still be deliberating over it by then, meaning a second vote is very possible.

The key here is that the Republicans who are targets of the recall drive may now find themselves casting a vote for this proposal after the public has rendered a very clear verdict on it, and after a court has ruled that their earlier fealty to the unpopular Walker led them to trample ordinary democratic processes. Such a display of total deafness to public opinion would only reinforce impressions that these public officials have gone rogue and need to be dealt with by extraordinary means — and must be recalled.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...e-recall-effort/2011/03/03/AGCR21BH_blog.html

 

[Teemu]

Except now they know how hated they are for deciding to come out so blatantly against the working class.

http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/average-teacher-salary-wisconsin.html
This is a teacher-friendly source, by calculating the salary/benefit expenses ratio, and the average salary, we get $72.5k a year average salary + benefits. That isn't working class in reasonable living costs state like Wisconsin.

EDIT: It's 2009 numbers so it is probably now closer to that $75.5k mentioned in some other sources.

 

[BenBurch]

http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/average-teacher-salary-wisconsin.html
This is a teacher-friendly source, by calculating the salary/benefit expenses ratio, and the average salary, we get $72.5k a year average salary + benefits. That isn't working class in reasonable living costs state like Wisconsin.

EDIT: It's 2009 numbers so it is probably now closer to that $75.5k mentioned in some other sources.

Your expectations have not kept up with inflation I fear.

Table A-1 from here; http://www.census.gov/prod/2010pubs/p60-238.pdf

 

[WildCat]

Most of the teachers and firefighters and policemen I know are GOP members and vote GOP. *********** with their union will change that. Being seen to endorse such moves will change that. No GOP politicians in Texas are looking to follow Wisconsin's lead on this.

It would be quite impossible for Texas legislators to follow Wisconsin's lead on this, because in Texas there are no state worker collective bargaining rights to take away.

 

[dtugg]

I am not vey clear about what this law does but I don't even think there should be a thing as collective bargaining rights, besides that the state shouldn't make forming unions illegal. If your union demands more than what the employer thinks is reasonable, it should be able to deny it. If you want to strike over it, go ahead. But the employer should be able to fire you and hire others who will work for less.

 

[eeyore1954]

Except now they know how hated they are for deciding to come out so blatantly against the working class.

How do you define working class?

Originally Posted by Teemu
http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/ave...wisconsin.html
This is a teacher-friendly source, by calculating the salary/benefit expenses ratio, and the average salary, we get $72.5k a year average salary + benefits. That isn't working class in reasonable living costs state like Wisconsin.

EDIT: It's 2009 numbers so it is probably now closer to that $75.5k mentioned in some other sources.

BenBurch: Your expectations have not kept up with inflation I fear.

Table A-1 from here; http://www.census.gov/prod/2010pubs/p60-238.pdf

I am sure the average worker in Wisconsin gets no where near that amount.

 

[casebro]

Ben Burch's chart in #12 above shows the median income of $48K PER HOUSEHOLD. And other posts show teacher getting $75k EACH. Sounds to me that teachers get paid lots more than the average wage earner. Double maybe? Triple if the median norm is based on two wage earners. eta, I believe that in California a few years ago, the average wage earner was making about $25k.

But can anybody link to what the median earnings of baccalaureates is ? Teachers always claim that they are underpaid compared to other degreed fields. Really ? How does the $75k above compare?

 

[bikerdruid]

I am sure the average worker in Wisconsin gets no where near that amount.

the 'average worker' also does not have the 4 to 6 years of university necessary to do their job.

 

[eeyore1954]

the 'average worker' also does not have the 4 to 6 years of university necessary to do their job.

The average worker probably has learned more in on the job skills than what a person got from their four year degree.

 

[bikerdruid]

The average worker probably has learned more in on the job skills than what a person got from their four year degree.

and, as a retired teacher, i can assure you that i learned more about teaching in my first year in the classroom than i learned about teaching in my two and a half year teaching degree.
however, my four years for my arts degree in english taught me the material i used.
your point?

 

[eeyore1954]

and, as a retired teacher, i can assure you that i learned more about teaching in my first year in the classroom than i learned about teaching in my two and a half year teaching degree.
however, my four years for my arts degree in english taught me the material i used.
your point?

Does going to four years of college neccesarily mean you should earn more than someone who has four extra years of work experience. That was my point . The answer might be yes.