Wine’s Pleasures: Are They All in Your Head?

[luchog]

I hate most Chadonneys too, but that reminds me of another wine snobbery, ie the sweeter you like your wines, the more of a novice you are. The sweetness of a wine has NOTHING to do w/how good of a wine it is. I have tried wines all along that spectrum and there are good and bad wines throughout. I will say generally I can't drink the really sweet and/or "dessert wines," but that's because as I get older I just can't tolerate strong sweetness in most anything. I can't tell you the last time I had any candy of any kind.

There is a certain amount of value to that, however. While there are many excellent sweet wines (late-harvest/ice wines, ports, amontillado and oloroso sherry, some syrah/shiraz variants); historically, sweeter wines have typically lacked the quality of production and aging characteristic of drier wines. High amounts of sugar have also often been used to mask poorly made wines; and too much sugar will overcome and mask more subtle and complex esters.

While it certainly has been taken too far (I like a good Johannisburg Riesling, which tends to be a sweeter, unoaked wine, but a fairly complex one); the sentiment is not inherently invalid because of the extremes to which it's been taken.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Also keep in mind that the price of wine isn't necessarily a reflection on quality, but more likely on scarcity.

Personally I've been disappointed by many expensive wines and surprised by some cheap wines (I still think 2 buck chuck tastes like ass though).

The price of wine has skyrocketed over the last decade as well which makes some very good wines pointlessly expensive. I'm willing to spend $50 on a nice bottle of wine, that same wine at $125 just isn't worth it to me. Overall I find myself drinking less anyway.

 

[jj]

"What does slate taste like?" I asked the owner.

She tried explaining to me, but I just wasn't getting it. She finally obtained a piece of slate and had me actually put it in my mouth.

I could discern no taste whatsoever.

Something that needs to be realized here.

1) Smell is the greatest part of taste
2) Different people have different (sometimes very different) smell receptors.
a) Work on analyzing them shows that people have from about 100 to 200 (with exceptions in both directions) smell receptors out of a known palate of 350 to 400.
b) Therefore not everyone can taste every flavor.
c) The "foxy" taste of american grapes is one such example. I can taste it, and YEOW, batman, bleh! My spouse can't taste it at all. She thinks Cilantro taste like yummy parsley, I think it tastes like soap. Turns out to be the same receptor as "foxy".
3) There is at least some evidence the the vomeronasal organ also can function as a smell organ, but it comes in via a different (VERY low level) part of the brain.

What anyone one person has depends on the genetic mixing of their parents.

There are other examples of smells that some percentage of the population can detect. In fact, now that research is proceeding, the list seems to be growing apace.

I'm no longer plugged into the research, so I can't say as I've kept up, but the above seems to be quite well supported.

 

[jj]

I agree with Claus on this one (let me know if you spot four odd-looking horses and riders nearby); it's definitely a skill. It's not something the average person is going to be able to just jump into.

Man I can hear the horses galloping by, too, with, in fact, Death riding a great big Motorcycle named "Binky".

And by the way, many serious tastings are done strictly double-blind. But not all. And yes, it would be enormous fun to test some of the more pretentious types. Always is. No matter what subject.

 

[jimtron]

I think the article did a good job of pointing out that:

a) some people have irrational opinions on wine; ie, they think the most expensive tastes best (better than the exact same wine presented as a different, lower priced one) etc.
b) those with sophisticated palettes truly can tell the difference between different qualities of wine (and not so sophisticated as well, to a lesser extent)
c) regardless of how sophisticated a person is about wine, it's a complicated issue: context is important, and different people have different tastes

Regardless of the thread title (which is also the article title), Asimov doesn't argue that it's "all inside your head."

 

[ARubberChickenWithAPulley]

Also keep in mind that the price of wine isn't necessarily a reflection on quality, but more likely on scarcity.

Personally I've been disappointed by many expensive wines and surprised by some cheap wines (I still think 2 buck chuck tastes like ass though).

The price of wine has skyrocketed over the last decade as well which makes some very good wines pointlessly expensive. I'm willing to spend $50 on a nice bottle of wine, that same wine at $125 just isn't worth it to me. Overall I find myself drinking less anyway.

My feelings as well on price (and ditto to Claus and several others about wine tasting being a skill that takes some time to learn). I don't think I've had a 2 or 3 dollar bottle of wine that didn't taste cheap, but I've had plenty of $8-10 dollar bottles of wine that were of high quality, and that I liked more than some $80 bottles of wine I've had. I've generally stopped buying most wines over about $50 because I've found that there is more great quality wine under $50 than I could probably drink in a decade.

 

[bigred]

There is a caveat on your statement- sweetening a wine will often cover up flaws, so bad wines are more likely to be found sweet than good ones, at least among the usual wines.

yeah, fair enough -

 

[Hindmost]

540 wines...in how much time???...Follow a reisling with a dry wine and they will both taste bad. Tasting more than a few wines will exhaust the pallet quickly. Just not enough info.

glenn

 

[CFLarsen]

Also keep in mind that the price of wine isn't necessarily a reflection on quality, but more likely on scarcity.

There's actually more wine now than ever before, and better, too, due to better production methods. The price of wine can most certainly also be down to snobbery: A favorable mention in a wine magazine, or by a famous wine connaisseur, can jack up prices tremendously.

Personally I've been disappointed by many expensive wines and surprised by some cheap wines (I still think 2 buck chuck tastes like ass though).

.....and how would you know what that taste like?

The price of wine has skyrocketed over the last decade as well which makes some very good wines pointlessly expensive. I'm willing to spend $50 on a nice bottle of wine, that same wine at $125 just isn't worth it to me. Overall I find myself drinking less anyway.

Some wines have become more expensive, while others have become cheaper.

My feelings as well on price (and ditto to Claus and several others about wine tasting being a skill that takes some time to learn). I don't think I've had a 2 or 3 dollar bottle of wine that didn't taste cheap, but I've had plenty of $8-10 dollar bottles of wine that were of high quality, and that I liked more than some $80 bottles of wine I've had. I've generally stopped buying most wines over about $50 because I've found that there is more great quality wine under $50 than I could probably drink in a decade.

Like I said, due to better production methods, the wines we get today are generally better than before. That means that you can get remarkably good wines at an affordable price.

We live in good times.

540 wines...in how much time???...Follow a reisling with a dry wine and they will both taste bad. Tasting more than a few wines will exhaust the pallet quickly. Just not enough info.

It can be done in a couple of days, but only by people who really know what they are doing. You can't drag in 500 people off the street and expect them to be able to judge 540 wines fairly.

 

[bobdroege7]

Put a cartoon label on a bottle with a funny name and it flies of off the shelves, while a bottle labeled fench table wine product of france just gathers dust.

 

[BPSCG]

Put a cartoon label on a bottle with a funny name and it flies of off the shelves, while a bottle labeled fench table wine product of france just gathers dust.

And with good reason, too.

Reminds me of an old episode of Cheers where Norm is talking about his favorite restaurant, the Hungry Heifer, where the surf 'n' turf is only $5.95. He found out the hard way that the words "loobster" and "beff" on the menu were not typos...

 

[Dogdoctor]

Wine is like art or music or any similar pursuit of aesthetics. When all is said and done what really matters is if you like it. Perhaps you only like it because it is expensive or because it's supposed to be good and you're a snob but still it's all about what you like. I had an interesting wine experience recently. I tried some wine candy. There were three choices, a Cabernet Sauvignon, a White Merlot and a White Zinfandel. I prefer the cabernet which is what I prefer in wine also.

 

[Hindmost]

...snip....


It can be done in a couple of days, but only by people who really know what they are doing. You can't drag in 500 people off the street and expect them to be able to judge 540 wines fairly.

absolutely...

glenn

 

[luchog]

Some wines have become more expensive, while others have become cheaper.

Like I said, due to better production methods, the wines we get today are generally better than before. That means that you can get remarkably good wines at an affordable price.

We live in good times.

And, of course, the price of wine is also affected by a number of factors that are unrelated to taste and quality. The most obvious is crop failures. A blight or parasite that kills or renders unusuable a large percentage of the year's grapes will cause the price of a particular wine to go up due to scarcity. Since winemaking is so common around the world, chances are while your region is seeing a shortage, another is seeing a surplus, so their prices are going down at the same time. Cheap, low-quality wines are not subject to the same price fluctuations, due to the ubiquity of the lower-quality ingredients they use.

I'm not much of a wine snob, but I am a beer snob; and the scarcity issue has been affecting beer production mightily. The vast majority of hops used in beer are grown in only three or four places around the world, one of them right here where I live. There are also only a limited number of places where the right kinds of barley are grown. Droughts and excessive rains causing crop failures, combined with a huge fire in one of the local hops storage facilities, combined with a substantial number of growings replacing hops and barley with more lucrative crops (namely corn for ethanol production), has caused an increase in beer prices in higher-quality beers; anywhere from 20-50%, and resulted in a few no longer being made. Low-quality mass-produced beer hasn't suffered these price increases, since they use very little of the premium barely, replacing it with adjuncts like corn and rice; and far less hops than higher-quality brews.

 

[CFLarsen]

Wine is like art or music or any similar pursuit of aesthetics. When all is said and done what really matters is if you like it.

It sure is...

 

[bigred]

Wow sucks to be where you live then. (good) beer prices and availability remain quite stable here in the states.

 

[luchog]

Wow sucks to be where you live then. (good) beer prices and availability remain quite stable here in the states.

If you're talking about the US, then no, they're not. They've gone up considerably since the shortage. I live in the Pacific Northwest, home of some of the best microbrewers, and they've all been forced to raise their prices as I said. A few of the smaller breweries are in danger of going out of business due to the cost and lack of availability of barley and hops.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-beer18apr18,0,6405169.story
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22808209/
http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_022508WAB_hops_shortage_beer_LJ.28d2600b.html
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/335704_hops17.html
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2007-10-26-beer-prices_N.htm
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17952353

Some of my personal favorites have been unavailable this year, due to the shortage. Both US and European brewers have had to scale back to smaller batches; and there just isn't enough to go around. According to the owners of one of the big beer shops where I get most of my beer, a lot of the smaller-batch imports and micros from the eastern US, particularly seasonal brewings, aren't making it this far west. The distributors are keeping it all for the larger east coast markets.

 

[bigred]

oh, you're talking some obscure yuppie microbrews. Who cares?



All I can say is here on the Atlantic coast, plenty of good beer avail at quite stable prices.

 

[luchog]

oh, you're talking some obscure yuppie microbrews. Who cares?



All I can say is here on the Atlantic coast, plenty of good beer avail at quite stable prices.

Except, of course, if you read the articles, it's the opposite of that. But actually reading enough to learn real facts is far too much work, I know.

Even the crappy corporate mass-produced garbage has gone up in price.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Like I said, due to better production methods, the wines we get today are generally better than before. That means that you can get remarkably good wines at an affordable price.

We live in good times.

'Tis a sign of the apocalypse, I know, but I agree. (With the caveat that beer prices in the US have gone up, for all sorts, which is IMO a further sign of the apocalypse. Start digging the bunker.)

It can be done in a couple of days, but only by people who really know what they are doing. You can't drag in 500 people off the street and expect them to be able to judge 540 wines fairly.

Perhaps only for certain values of "fairly."

*sips wine*

That's fairly decent.

DR