Windows 8: how did so much suck happen?

davefoc said:
One would expect that a new OS would have some features that the old one doesn't. My question is whether there are any advantages to the new Windows 8 UI over the Windows 7 UI for a desktop PC user and if so what are they?
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I can't say I know of any. It's certainly not worth spending the money to buy a new copy to upgrade an existing copy of 7. For the most part I doubt it would be worth the money to buy a new copy of 7 to downgrade a new machine with 8 preloaded, but I guess it's personal choice.
 
GlennB said:
Pardon my total naivety, but couldn't the installation/first startup just ask "Would you prefer to default to the classic PC desktop or the tablet-style Metro thingumajig?" (though possibly not in those exact words).
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That would have been a brilliant idea, and something they were experimenting with. (As evidenced, in part, in pre-release versions of the OS.)

Except politics within Microsoft got in the way. The "Metro thingumajig" was pushed, by Windows' lead developer, as something that ought to become the be-all-end-all interface, and to abandon the interfaces of the past, so everything can be more consistent with his vision of the future!!

Presumably, the next version of Windows will deliver a choice like that. Assuming the current crop of rumors are true.

I would like to see it dynamically change: When in "Tablet Mode" show the Modern UI more prominently. When in "Desktop Mode", display the Desktop more prominently. But, we'll have to see if they actually do it that way.

davefoc said:
One would expect that a new OS would have some features that the old one doesn't. My question is whether there are any advantages to the new Windows 8 UI over the Windows 7 UI for a desktop PC user and if so what are they?
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The main reason I see for upgrading to Win8 would be performance enhancements made throughout the system. Most things are a little faster than they were in Win7.

There are a few added features, here and there, but none of them matter that much. And, you'll probably have to install something to make Win8 easier to use.

I, for one, do like the Ribbon being part of the File Explorer. And, the new Task Manager is easier to work with, on the rare occasion that I use it.
 
GlennB said:
Pardon my total naivety, but couldn't the installation/first startup just ask "Would you prefer to default to the classic PC desktop or the tablet-style Metro thingumajig?" (though possibly not in those exact words).

<giggle>
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Nothing naive about it at all. Bloody idiotic that they didn't. One wonders if someone may have deserved to be fired.

One of the few areas about Window 8 that wowbagger and I agree!:D
 
davefoc said:
One would expect that a new OS would have some features that the old one doesn't. My question is whether there are any advantages to the new Windows 8 UI over the Windows 7 UI for a desktop PC user and if so what are they?
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Overall most people seem to think it is a bit zippier and a bit more stable than 7. But beyond that it's subjective, I happen to like the new start menu and love the charm bar so for me that is an "advantage" but probably isn't for someone else.
 
Darat said:
Overall most people seem to think it is a bit zippier and a bit more stable than 7. But beyond that it's subjective, I happen to like the new start menu and love the charm bar so for me that is an "advantage" but probably isn't for someone else.
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You are dead to me. How do we put admins on ignore?
 
I use multiple screens and really disliked the charm bar until I paid attention to the instructions. For some reason I was pointing at the bottom right corner to trigger it, and often slipping to the next screen, instead of the top right corner where it seems to grab the mouse and be far more responsive.

They still have some work to do in integrating access to settings etc on the charm bar though. I think it's still a work in progress.
 
davefoc said:
One would expect that a new OS would have some features that the old one doesn't. My question is whether there are any advantages to the new Windows 8 UI over the Windows 7 UI for a desktop PC user and if so what are they?
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It offers some refinements, including better networking, faster overall performance, and better utilities.
 
Darat said:
Overall most people seem to think it is a bit zippier and a bit more stable than 7. But beyond that it's subjective, I happen to like the new start menu and love the charm bar so for me that is an "advantage" but probably isn't for someone else.
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My experience has been that it is not completely stable, whereas 7 was.

I have had quite a few blue screens with my new laptop.
 
icerat said:
Nope, not at all analogous. You've climbed in the back and are playing with the DVD controls for the kids when there's a perfectly good drivers seat with everything your used to, but you've just chosen to ignore it.
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From reading this thread, it sounds like a better analogy would be someone getting into their brand-new vehicle and seeing a dashboard full of controls for a DVD player, air con, radio, ect, but no sign of a steering wheel, so they're wondering what the hell is going on.

Since this particular vehicle has a screen between the driver and passenger seats, they can't see that the new car is a right-hand drive vehicle because they are used to owning left-hand drive vehicle and so they got into the left-hand side.

Sure, they just have to get out of the car and go around to the other side to get to the driver's seat, but it would have been better if someone had told them about this in advance so they wouldn't have gotten in the wrong side by mistake.
 
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Squeegee Beckenheim said:
<snip>

It does also rather beg the question - if you've got something that works as a tablet, why would you want it to work as a laptop? And if you've got something that works as a laptop, why would you want it to work as a tablet? Doesn't it still make sense to have one, coherent, OS that can run whatever applications you want to use on the machine? Having, say, music and word processing requiring different environments makes no sense on such a device, does it?
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Why on Earth wouldn't you, if the device could handle both functions equally well?

The major impediments have been weight, capacity, battery time, and expense. As those become less of a problem why not have a machine which does both?

I did exactly that with a Motion tablet running XP (this gizmo). Eight years ago. I used it in the field as a tablet with a stylus and pretty amazing (for the time) handwriting recognition and lots of tablet specific software, and when I got back to my office I plopped it in to its docking station where it was instantly running a full sized monitor, keyboard, printer, and sundry other peripherals.

I loved it. It functioned exactly like a laptop when I wanted it to, but I wasn't limited to that. In the field it was nearly the same as having three racks of 'E' sized drawings on a clipboard.

It ran more than a couple of grand back then, had about three hours of battery time and weighed several pounds, but it was the best that could be done back then. The construction company I worked for put dozens of them out in the field and never regretted it. Since they replaced the laptops we had been using it really wasn't all that much of an extra expense.

For tablets today the expense has gone down to consumer levels, the weight has dropped to ounces, capacities almost put the desktops of that time to shame, and battery time has nearly tripled.

Dedicated, laptop only machines are a dying genre. The writing was on the wall nearly a decade ago. In just a few more years they'll probably be almost as hard to find as floppy drives.

I'm not sure why that's a bad thing.
 
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Charlie Wilkes said:
It offers some refinements, including better networking, faster overall performance, and better utilities.
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Darat, seems to be the one that got the point of my question. It would have been very surprising if there wasn't something better about Windows 8 from Windows 7.

What I was trying to confirm was that Microsoft made the decision to change the UI entirely for its own purposes and that millions of desktop users were disadvantaged both by the time it took them to learn the new UI and the fact that the new UI wasn't as good for a desktop computer as the previous one. Darat's opinion was particularly useful on this issue because he is a defender of Microsoft over Windows 8.

My takeaway from what Darat said was that millions of people were disadvantaged by the Microsoft decisions with regard to Windows 8 but there might be a feature of the Windows 8 UI that was an improvement over the Windows 7 UI although even there not everybody agrees that it was an improvement.
 
davefoc said:
One would expect that a new OS would have some features that the old one doesn't. My question is whether there are any advantages to the new Windows 8 UI over the Windows 7 UI for a desktop PC user and if so what are they?
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The only advantage I can find is that they will consent to SELL you W8.1 but they will no longer consent to sell you W7.
 
davefoc said:
Darat, seems to be the one that got the point of my question. It would have been very surprising if there wasn't something better about Windows 8 from Windows 7.

What I was trying to confirm was that Microsoft made the decision to change the UI entirely for its own purposes and that millions of desktop users were disadvantaged both by the time it took them to learn the new UI and the fact that the new UI wasn't as good for a desktop computer as the previous one. Darat's opinion was particularly useful on this issue because he is a defender of Microsoft over Windows 8.

My takeaway from what Darat said was that millions of people were disadvantaged by the Microsoft decisions with regard to Windows 8 but there might be a feature of the Windows 8 UI that was an improvement over the Windows 7 UI although even there not everybody agrees that it was an improvement.
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Have you used Windows 8?

It's not really accurate to say that they changed the UI entirely. The changes in the desktop UI between 7 and 8 are less significant than between XP and 7. In fact, they are minor tweaks, and in some cases, they represent a subtle improvement IMO.

BUT, MS also bolted on a completely different UI that boots up by default, which users have to click through to get to the desktop UI. And they booby-trapped the desktop UI so bits of the unwanted UI pop up at odd times. I had to spend some time disabling the booby traps and learning how to avoid triggering them. Once I did that, I found I could live with Windows 8. But, as you say, these major changes have no value to most desktop users, and in fact they are a nuisance.

Now they have come out with Windows 8.1, a 3.5 gb download that they are pushing me to install. I have no idea what it will do to my system, and no sense that it offers improvements I care about. I am a technology buff, up to a point. I have an Android phone, my USB ports always seem to be maxed out, and I buy electronic gadgets on a regular basis. But what I need from a desktop interface has changed very little over the past decade. If MS can come up with a genuinely interesting product, maybe I will buy it. But Windows is a basic requirement for me rather than a discretionary "fun" purchase, and I don't want to have to deal with pointless change. Cranking out new versions serves only to alienate me as a customer and make me long for the day when Windows is no longer the standard for anything.
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
...Windows is a basic requirement for me rather than a discretionary "fun" purchase, and I don't want to have to deal with pointless change. Cranking out new versions serves only to alienate me as a customer and make me long for the day when Windows is no longer the standard for anything.
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THIS!!!
 
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