Willie Rodriguez, Hero and Traitor

Brainster said:
I am certainly not using the word "traitor" in its technical meaning, and of course, it's the one thing I can't edit after posting.
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Off topic here:
Actually, you can change the title of the thread. While editing, press the "Go advanced" button, and you'll be taken to a screen where title change is possible. Of course, it's still under the same 2-hour limitation, just telling you it's possible. ;)

And no, you're not the only one who aren't (or by now, weren't) aware of this, so nothing to worry too much about.
 
I'm not going to give up on Rodriguez without some serious thought. He truly is a hero of the day. I haven't gotten through a video of his speech yet, but he is very committed to his interpretation of the explosions, and I don't think that he was manipulated very much into his beliefs. In fact, I think an erroneous interpretation made in the confusion of the day was simply reinforced by the 9/11 "truthers" he's been in contact with since.

That said, it is a wrong interpretation. Gravy's shown quite well that the explosion Rodriguez felt from below was the jet fuel explosion making its way down the elevator shafts. Rodriguez is spreading a large chunk of misinformation.

Over at DU, I've compared him with Paul Revere and his role in propagandizing the Boston Massacre. I just watched a high school video about how Revere initially produced what appears to be a very accurate diagram of the scene after the British soldiers shot, but then later on produced his famous woodcut of the scene - which is grossly inaccurate and meant to villainize the British. Things like the Boston Massacre galvanized the Revolution, and here we all are in a world with the United States in it today.

Is Rodriguez geniunely confused? Or is he spreading misinformation for a greater cause? I don't know. Is he supporting any more actual CTs besides his own angle (basement explosion first)? That I don't know, either.

And in light of the use of the Boston Massacre, can such misinformation be justified?
 
William Rodriguez sent me a reply to this thread in which
he explains his view about the different opinions in here.

I´m waiting for his okay to post the mails.

- Oliver
 
I believe that Willie Rodriguez's intentions are good, but I think he is naive to believe that the Iranian government will make any serious attempts at "peace" or that they will not use and manipulate his presense by insinuating or even outright accusing the US government of staging the attacks and blaming them on Muslims. Iran may not be a declared enemy as of today, but relations are currently tenuous, at best. The diplomatic effect will probably depend on how much coverage the visit gets and how much of it is focused on CT issues surrounding 9/11 versus how much attention disaster preparedness/peace talks get. The current Iranian president is, at the very least, a deeply dishonest man with a disturbing penchant for actively seeking enemies and courting conflict.


Willie Rodriguez said:
I believe that if it was Jesse JAckson or Jimmy Carter doing a peace trip, everybody will be clapping.
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This is very true, but why?

Jimmy Carter is a former President who has conducted and attended numerous productive peace talks in the past.

Jesse Jackson has, on occasion, been an effective negotiator/negotiations facilitator. He is also a minister.

Neither man, or any other former president or experience diplomat, would go overseas and attempt to implicate the US in a crime that there is no evidence that they committed.

Either of those men or any other diplomat going to Iran in the wake of their recent Holocaust Denial summit in attempt to cool the fires and restart diplomacy would make sense. But that's not what this is.

Willie Rodriguez was invited by the Iranian government for one reason: Because his main claim to fame is to be frequently quoted by people who, despite massive amounts of evidence to the contrary, believe that the US government perpetrated the 9/11 terror attacks.

I will not, stop doing a peace outreach anywhere in the world - let it be Israel, Iran , North Korea or Iraq, even if this means breaking up with the whole 9/11 truth movement. I am very clear who I represent and what I am trying to avoid.
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Everybody wants world peace. It would be great but let's be honest. Why, out of the hundreds, even thousands, of heroes from 9/11 is Rodriguez been invited to Iran over all the others? Because he's one of the few who is in with the conspiracy theorists and is one of their most quoted poster children to boot. You want to help world peace where Iran is concerned, send a letter to Jimmy Carter and ask him to go and hold real peace talks. Talks that will actually deal with the issues. A conspiracy theory convention isn't going to do anyone any good.
 
(Also posted at SLC in slightly different form)

I wrote a post earlier this week that I thought was pretty reasonable on the blog, but I spiced it up a bit for the JREF forum, specifically using the word "traitor". For that I apologize to Willie Rodriguez. And I made a mistake in analyzing it without recognizing that at least some of my assumptions were coming from my personal ideological standpoint. For that I apologize to my fellow JREFers.

I still think that spreading 9-11 Denial abroad is incredibly damaging to the country's image, especially in Iran, and hope that Willie will find that he has other engagements that week.
 
If Rodriguez is truly willing to hop into bed with Mahmoud "The-Holocaust-never-happened-but-it-will-as-soon-as-I-enrich-enough-uranium" Ahmedinejad, then he deserves whatever epithets those justifiably angered feel like throwing at him.

You can say you're not using the technical form of the word, but let us not forget that technically, "Hanoi Jane" Fonda is a traitor.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
If Rodriguez is truly willing to hop into bed with Mahmoud "The-Holocaust-never-happened-but-it-will-as-soon-as-I-enrich-enough-uranium" Ahmedinejad, then he deserves whatever epithets those justifiably angered feel like throwing at him.

You can say you're not using the technical form of the word, but let us not forget that technically, "Hanoi Jane" Fonda is a traitor.
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My impression of Rodriguez: sincere, honest, but very misguided. I hope he reconsiders this trip.

Sword, I hope you mean that Fonda was a traitor. She did eventually apologize for being an idiot, and as far as I know she isn't out cavorting with the Taliban. Also, she has the opening scene in Barbarella in her favor.
 
I would not go so far as to call Rodriquez a traitor, (although I can understand why others feel that strongly about it) but I do view him as an opportunist and very misguided. I also do not believe him to be particularly trustworthy or believable. I say this because his story has changed so many times, and it seems that the more he tells it, the bigger and "better" it gets.

This is not to take away from the acts of heroism that he displayed on September 11, 2001, to the extent that they are true, but to point out that even one time heros can be misguided, deluded, opportunistic, etc.
 
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I think this is one point upon wich we will have to part ways, Gravy.

As a science fiction fan, I used to say "I'll watch any sci-fi film once". Until I stayed up till 3 am one night just to watch "Barberella". :p
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
I think this is one point upon wich we will have to part ways, Gravy.

As a science fiction fan, I used to say "I'll watch any sci-fi film once". Until I stayed up till 3 am one night just to watch "Barberella". :p
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Oh, I wasn't talking about the whole film. There isn't enough pot in the world to get me to watch that all the way through. But I strongly encourage any straight men and women with lesbian leanings to watch the beginning. Grrr!
 
Gravy said:
Also, she has the opening scene in Barbarella in her favor.
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:D Ahh, brings back some teenage 1970s testosterone-laden memories.

Unfortunately, Jane has recently turned born-again Christian. I've read where Ted Turner cites this as a major factor in their divorce.
 
yodaluver28 said:
Either of those men or any other diplomat going to Iran in the wake of their recent Holocaust Denial summit in attempt to cool the fires and restart diplomacy would make sense. But that's not what this is.

Willie Rodriguez was invited by the Iranian government for one reason: Because his main claim to fame is to be frequently quoted by people who, despite massive amounts of evidence to the contrary, believe that the US government perpetrated the 9/11 terror attacks.
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My guess is that Irans government will put a standard "The Jews did it"-spin to this event in the line of their recent efforts to try to take the lead in the Middle-East. I dont know what drives Mr. Rodriguez to attend this summit, but I would say he stands the risk of being used as a useful idiot.

Anyone have a link to an official source?

Cheers,
SLOB
 
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