Will Israel ever pull back to 1967 borders?

[Darth Rotor]

Sometimes I think the question is not whether Israel or Palestine ought to exist, but whether NATIONS ought to exist.

Hey, with no Nations, there is no United Nations. Turn that building on the East River into affordable apartment blocks!

Ben, is there a Libertarian posting under your name?

 

[Tailgater]

If ever there was a place in need of a massive earthquake ... maybe a geological reboot is in order.

A Grand Canyon size crack might reboot some religious thought as well. I couldn't imagine the "God did it because ______" hysteria. I'm sure it would be worked into the next History Channel special on Nostradamus.

 

[Ziggurat]

The real question is: Does a Jewish state in Palestine have a right to exist?

Don't be stupid. The right of a state to exist has always been, and will always be, an irrelevant question next to the ability of a state to exist. That fact seems to be obvious to everyone when it comes to almost every other state in the world. Why is Israel an exception?

 

[Darth Rotor]

A Grand Canyon size crack might reboot some religious thought as well. I couldn't imagine the "God did it because ______" hysteria. I'm sure it would be worked into the next History Channel special on Nostradamus.

Phred Phelps: "God did it because God hates fags, particularly Jew and Arab fags."

Twoofer: "God did it because he's tired of the NWO taking his name in vain. Destroying its HQ was part of His Divine Plan."

Pope: "God did it because he routinely punishes His Chosen People for failure to obey. The Flood, Moses denied the Holy Land, Babylonian Captivity, Hitler. If they just followed Jesus, this would not have happened."
Pope's PR department: "Who forgot to give His Emminence his meds, for the love of Pete?"

Pat Robertson: "God called me home, but I left my phone in Jerusalem since I'm old and getting forgetful. Please forgive me by sending money."

Elders of the Church of Mormon: "God did that since Utah really is God's country. We thank Him for setting the record straight."

Mahmoud the Mouth on Radio Free Tehran: "See, you sunzabiznatches? I was right! Erased from the pages of history! Well, sorta. I'll get my coat ... "

Al Sadr: "Allah the merciful wished to restate how much more important An Najaf is than Jerusalem. Vote for me Allah be praised."

Grand Ayatollah Al Sistani (to Al Sadr): "Shut up, punk. The will of Allah is not exercised for the likes of you."

Wiccan: "It wasn't God folks, it was Mother Gaea getting back at the vile Abrahamic Patriarchies!"

Confucian: "That was the butterfly effect finally coming home to roost."

Buddhist: "The Bodhisatva was used to earthquakes when He lived among us in South Asia. He just wanted to feel at home. Admire the beauty of the newly shaped earth."

ELF activist: "We did that to show Californians that we are serious about outlawing SUV's. You hear us, Los Angeles?"

Shinto: "You call that an Earthquake? Try living in the Ring of Fire for a few centuries! We'll show you earthquakes and volcanoes, and the spirits who send them."

Dawkins: "That wasn't an earthquake, and it wasn't God: it was a massive meme."

Netenyahu: "Picked a good week to visit New York, I did."

TheAtheist: "If that was God, OK, I'll reconsider. If it wasn't, I'll have some popcorn and see what people try next in that silly bloc of real estate."

Holulele: "That was Pele with a malfunctioning GPS: Godly Pith Statement."

chillzero: *Infracts God for the multiple ad homs*

Tricky: *Posts Mod warning to God to be civil, even to Arabs and Israelis*

Darat: *Bans God for serial breaches of the MA*

Lisa Simpson: *Worries about how many people were injured and killed, though for once it was NOT her fault*

Darth: "You do not know the power of the Dark Side. Well, now you do. The UFO sightings for the last fifty years? Death Star and Tie Fighters. Roswell? Sith Central. Lucas didn't make any of that stuff up, he was coached ... well, Jar Jar Binks he made up, for which he'll pay. I find his lack of respect disturbing ... "

 

[DC]

Don't be stupid. The right of a state to exist has always been, and will always be, an irrelevant question next to the ability of a state to exist. That fact seems to be obvious to everyone when it comes to almost every other state in the world. Why is Israel an exception?

ah a supporter of the Republic of Lakotah.

 

[Darth Rotor]

ah a supporter of the Republic of Lakotah.

As soon as they establish their state by standard methods, for example, blood and iron, doubtless he will be.

Question: Are you familiar with Indian Reservations in America?

DR

 

[Ziggurat]

ah a supporter of the Republic of Lakotah.

I have no idea why you think Lakotah is relevant here, or why you are trying to suggest something (or even what you're trying to suggest) about what you assume my opinion of it might be. My post was a statement of reality. The USSR had no right to exist, but it had the means to do so, for quite some time. Its dissolution did not arrive because it lost any rights. Do you actually disagree?

 

[Toke]

If ever there was a place in need of a massive earthquake ... maybe a geological reboot is in order.

No, you would just get a holy hole in the ground.

 

[Toke]

Don't be stupid. The right of a state to exist has always been, and will always be, an irrelevant question next to the ability of a state to exist. That fact seems to be obvious to everyone when it comes to almost every other state in the world. Why is Israel an exception?

Agree with you here, might tend to be right at nation level.

 

[DrBaltar]

This seems to me to be the only pertinent question with regards to the question of there ever being peace in the middle east. Of course, it's perfectly possible that even with a withdrawal to 1967 borders that there will be continued violence and conflict, but without such a withdrawal it seems that there is approximately 0 chance of any long-lasting peaceful settlement.

Why should they withdraw? They were attacked in '67 when they were at the 1967 borders. The attackers lost. End of story.

For those who say that the cost to Israel is too great, is it greater than another 40 years of perpetual conflict and uneasy truce?

Or Israel's perpetual attackers could get a life and move on. Why is it always up to Israel to suck it up and do the right thing?

 

[RandFan]

The real question is: Does a Jewish state in Palestine have a right to exist?

A Jewish state in Palestine existed for a thousand years until A.D. 135. If it was ok then...why isn't it ok now?

Depends on the perspective and argument. I'm not even sure how solid America's right to exist is. I'm not sure that is the real question. If it is then I think Australia, America, Canada and many others have some splaining to do.

Oops, to avoid the fallacy let me concede that whether or not Israel has a right to exist is not dependant on any other countries right to exist. I only note that it raises questions.

 

[DrBaltar]

Didn't the Palestinians (by the name of Philistines back then) invade first around 1100 BC?

 

[Thunder]

Don't be stupid. The right of a state to exist has always been, and will always be, an irrelevant question next to the ability of a state to exist. That fact seems to be obvious to everyone when it comes to almost every other state in the world. Why is Israel an exception?

Thats easy. Israel is a relatively new country. It is the only nation-state to be created without long term settlement of the national group.

Israel is an exception because of its peculiar circumstances.

 

[RandFan]

The right of a state to exist has always been, and will always be, an irrelevant question next to the ability of a state to exist. That fact seems to be obvious to everyone when it comes to almost every other state in the world. Why is Israel an exception?

Agreed.

 

[Thunder]

Didn't the Palestinians (by the name of Philistines back then) invade first around 1100 BC?

The modern day Palestinians are a mixture of Arabs, Berbers, Persians, Egyptians, Circassians, Bosnians, Turks, and other Muslims who moved to Palestine over the centuries.

Their connection to any pre-Judaean groups is minimal if not non-existant.

The Phillistines died out thousands of years ago and/or merged with the local Hebrew populations.

 

[RandFan]

Thats easy. Israel is a relatively new country. It is the only nation-state to be created without long term settlement of the national group.

Israel is an exception because of its peculiar circumstances.

This seems arbitrary. What are these rules and who makes them? How long did it take before America, Canada or any other new nation gained the right to exist? I don't remember the Native Americans ever giving up their rights. What about the Native Australians? When was it exactly that Australia gained a right to exist?

Your argument seems ill formed.

 

[Thunder]

This seems arbitrary. What are these rules and who makes them? How long did it take before America, Canada or any other new nation gained the right to exist? I don't remember the Native Americans ever giving up their rights. What about the Native Australians? When was it exactly that Australia gained a right to exist?

Your argument seems ill formed.

if there were 100 million Native Americans langushing in refugee camps in Kansas, there plight would definately be more important and a solution involving the USA giving up land would be neccessary. Sadly, unlike the Israelis, we Americans pretty much wiped out our indigenous populations.

As did Canada, Australia, and other European colonial states.

Though, Canada has given natives their own terrirory.

One must always wonder why is it that people think that Israel "stole" native land and Israel should make a sizeable concession of land to their natives, yet the USA is under no such obligations.

Are Native Americans trash and Arabs some sort of higher natives? The same with Australian natives? How come the UN doesn't demand Oklahoma go to Native Americans?

Hmmmm? There are 5 million of them in the USA and they could surely use their own state.

 

[ddt]

The modern day Palestinians are a mixture of Arabs, Berbers, Persians, Egyptians, Circassians, Bosnians, Turks, and other Muslims who moved to Palestine over the centuries.

Their connection to any pre-Judaean groups is minimal if not non-existant.

The Phillistines died out thousands of years ago and/or merged with the local Hebrew populations.

You forgot to add Samarians and Judaeans/Jews. As late as 613, there was a sizable Jewish population in Judea/Palestina, which at the time revolted against the Roman Emperor. Those Jews didn't leave when the Arab troops conquered the land; most likely, they assimilated and converted to Islam.

PS. Bosnians???

 

[Thunder]

You forgot to add Samarians and Judaeans/Jews. As late as 613, there was a sizable Jewish population in Judea/Palestina, which at the time revolted against the Roman Emperor. Those Jews didn't leave when the Arab troops conquered the land; most likely, they assimilated and converted to Islam.

PS. Bosnians???

The number of Samaritans in Israel has remained amazingly small over there years. This is all their choice.

As to Jews converting to Islam..and NOT simply becoming crypto-Jews? I doubt.

Jews hold onto their religion no matter what the costs. There are still hundreds of thousands of Catholic people living in Mexico, other parts of Latin America, and Spain, who still for some reason do not eat pork and light candles Friday evening. They don't know why they do this...but we do.

They are descended from Jews.

I highly doubt any high percentage of Muslim Palestinians are descended from Jewish converts. All the evidence suggests that most Jews left Palestine, were killed, or sold into slavery. Mass conversion to Christianity or Islam?

Dream on....DDT.

and yes, Bosnians did indeed immigrate to Palestine during WW1. As did Circassions during the late 19th century.

 

[RandFan]

if there were 100 million Native Americans langushing in refugee camps in Kansas, there plight would definately be more important and a solution involving the USA giving up land would be neccessary.

Doesnt answer my question, which was, when did America and other countries gain the "right to exist"?

Sadly, unlike the Israelis, we Americans pretty much wiped out our indigenous populations.

As did Canada, Australia, and other European colonial states.

Though, Canada has given natives their own terrirory.

One must always wonder why is it that people think that Israel "stole" native land and Israel should make a sizeable concession of land to their natives, yet the USA is under no such obligations.

¹Are Native Americans trash and Arabs some sort of higher natives? ²The same with Australian natives? ³How come the UN doesn't demand Oklahoma go to Native Americans?



Hmmmm? There are 5 million of them in the USA and they could surely use their own state.

That's all well and good but would you mind addressing my point?

1. No
2. No
3. I don't know. Perhaps it's a good idea. Is there currently a problem that would be resolved by doing so?

What does any of this have to do with my point?