Will Democrats ever concede on immigration?

[Trausti]

Okay, so you admit to being supportive of the Know-Nothings message, which was a group entirely opposed to the migration of:

SOME OF THE ANCESTORS OF THE VERY FREAKING PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT MEXICANS NOW.

??? I deliberately highlighted "to being taxed for the support of foreign paupers." Did you not see that? And it's a valid reason to restrict immigration. Americans should not have to pay ever-increasing taxes for the benefit of foreigners.

Cost of undocumented healthcare in California is billions over estimates, pressuring Democrats to consider cuts

 

[Brainster]

There is a middle ground somewhere between "throw all the foreigners out," and "open the doors and let them in."

 

[Manopolus]

??? I deliberately highlighted "to being taxed for the support of foreign paupers." Did you not see that? And it's a valid reason to restrict immigration. Americans should not have to pay ever-increasing taxes for the benefit of foreigners.

Cost of undocumented healthcare in California is billions over estimates, pressuring Democrats to consider cuts

And yet, compare that expense with the amount spent on the war with Iran already? Negligable. And taxes aren't even directly tied to the budget, really. Taxes are primarily to prevent inflation. The loose association with the budget is just some weird accounting game we play now that doesn't have much to do with anything. It doesn't appear to limit what the government spends, regardless of who is in charge.

...unless you're talking about state governments, which is different. Those get to take over whatever partially funded or unfunded mandates the federal government throws at them and indeed pay for them with actual taxes.

But I don't think the primary complaint, here, is money. I hear it, but I don't believe it. What I'm hearing instead is that these people are lesser because they weren't born here, and thus not worthy of consideration. They were a bit more direct about it in the past, with the "pauper" thing, though, weren't they? Made it sound like they hated poor people or something. Some do, apparently. Not sure why. Seems to have something to do with propping up their own status.

 

[HawksFan]

Sure.

You're aware all those groups were considered threats to the "American Way" at one time? Especially the Italians, Chinese, and Irish to the point of outright hostility? And I'm sure we don't need to cover the African American angle...

 

[Venom]

Medicaid work requirements coming up, but many could hang on with their fake work documents.

 

[dirtywick]

There is a middle ground somewhere between "throw all the foreigners out," and "open the doors and let them in."

well right now we're doing throw all the foreigners out and it's pretty trash

 

[Norman Alexander]

Medicaid work requirements coming up, but many could hang on with their fake work documents.

Wut

 

[Venom]

You don't see those arguments anymore because it's been definitively shown to be untrue.

What's not true? Bringing in a large number of workers expands the pool of options for employers; supply and demand. It reduces the bargaining power of employees generally. And that's especially true for illegal migrants who usually try to keep a low profile. It's not like large employers can't just shrug off a few fines. Few Prosecuted for Illegal Employment of Immigrants

 

[Norman Alexander]

What's not true? Bringing in a large number of workers expands the pool of options for employers; supply and demand. It reduces the bargaining power of employees generally. And that's especially true for illegal migrants who usually try to keep a low profile. It's not like large employers can't just shrug off a few fines. Few Prosecuted for Illegal Employment of Immigrants

You make the mistaken assumption that every potential employee is qualified and capable and willing to do every available job.

 

[mumblethrax]

What's not true?

That immigrants depress wages for American workers.

Bringing in a large number of workers expands the pool of options for employers; supply and demand. It reduces the bargaining power of employees generally.

Immigrants and US-born workers rarely compete in the same categories. Immigrants also create demand for labor.

What Immigration Means For U.S. Employment and Wages | Brookings

Our nation’s immigration policy continues to be an issue of debate among policymakers, particularly the impact on the U.S. labor force. Michael Greenstone and Adam Looney highlight the economic evidence on what immigration means for U.S. jobs and the economy.

www.brookings.edu

The Impact of Immigrants on Employment and Earnings

Although many are concerned that immigrants compete against Americans for jobs, the most recent economic evidence suggests that, on average, immigrant workers increase the opportunities and incomes of Americans. Based on a survey of the academic literature, economists do not tend to find that immigrants cause any sizeable decrease in wages and employment of U.S.-born citizens (Card 2005), and instead may raise wages and lower prices in the aggregate (Ottaviano and Peri 2008; Ottaviano and Peri 2010; Cortes 2008). One reason for this effect is that immigrants and U.S.-born workers generally do not compete for the same jobs; instead, many immigrants complement the work of U.S. employees and increase their productivity. For example, low-skilled immigrant laborers allow U.S.-born farmers, contractors, and craftsmen to expand agricultural production or to build more homes—thereby expanding employment possibilities and incomes for U.S. workers. Another way in which immigrants help U.S. workers is that businesses adjust to new immigrants by opening stores, restaurants, or production facilities to take advantage of the added supply of workers; more workers translate into more business.

Because of these factors, economists have found that immigrants slightly raise the average wages of all U.S.-born workers. As illustrated by the right-most set of bars in the chart below, estimates from opposite ends of the academic literature arrive at this same conclusion, and point to small but positive wage gains of between 0.1 and 0.6 percent for American workers.

 

[Venom]

You make the mistaken assumption that every potential employee is qualified and capable and willing to do every available job.

Immigrants and US-born workers rarely compete in the same categories. Immigrants also create demand for labor.

Rarely? And in any case where they do overlap is in the lower-income brackets.

And I believe there are American citizens who can do these jobs. High schoolers can do some of these jobs. Incarcerated people and detainees can do these jobs. And unemployed people desperate for a lifeline. Maybe healthy people on public assistance can do something productive.

 

[kookbreaker]

I've posted this before, I'm sure. But here it is again:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/07/31/634442195/when-the-u-s-government-tried-to-replace-migrant-farmworkers-with-high-schoolers

 

[mumblethrax]

Rarely? And in any case where they do overlap is in the lower-income brackets.

Nope.

Immigrants Do Not Displace US Workers or Reduce Wages - American Immigration Council

Recent increases in immigration to the United States correlate with more jobs and higher wages for U.S.-born workers.

www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org

“Even when these two groups [immigrants and the U.S.-born] have similar education and age, their employment in the labor market shows a significant degree of complementarity, implying that they do not compete for jobs, but rather the employment of one group helps the productivity of the other,” the authors write.

The research, from University of California-Davis economists Giovanni Peri and Alessandro Caiumi, builds upon decades of previous research from Peri and others on the impact of immigration on the wages and employment of U.S.-born workers.

Consistently, economists have found that an increase in immigration rates does not cause a drop in wages for U.S.-born workers. Immigrants don’t often compete for the same jobs as the U.S.-born, but instead complement the existing workforce with different skills and specializations. This boosts productivity and, in turn, wage growth for U.S.-born workers.

And I believe there are American citizens who can do these jobs. High schoolers can do some of these jobs. Incarcerated people and detainees can do these jobs. And unemployed people desperate for a lifeline. Maybe healthy people on public assistance can do something productive.

You can believe whatever you want, but don't expect people who bother to inform themselves to "concede" to you.