Will Beck run off the Teabaggers now?

[thaiboxerken]

We could get this under control with budget cuts alone, too.

Sure, but cut which budgets?

Tax increases on the wealthy are unlikely to help a whole not, for the reasons I gave above.

I don't accept your reasons, as they haven't been shown to actually be true. The reasons many businesses have been going overseas is because of incentives given by past administrations. If they do go overseas, we could tax them for any business that they do in the USA as well.
However, why is it that some countries have very good budgets AND quality of life even though they have very high taxes?

The Republican method has always been tax cuts, and only tax cuts. They're the biggest government growers that have been in politics for about 40 years.

 

[Ziggurat]

The fat class wants it like that. They figured out that when one of their own is running the government, it is safe to move all the money out of industry and move it into finance.

Wait... when "one of their own" is running government, isn't that when corporations are supposed to be making money hand-over-fist because they've been given free reign to squeeze the poor? Why would they divert money from more-profitable businesses to lend it to the government?

And how do you think those fat cats get government to borrow so much? If it's a giant conspiracy, shouldn't we be examining how those fat cats have inflated government spending, thereby requiring massive borrowing which they can then fund?

The money in the derivatives market is not building factories and roads.

You didn't say anything about the derivatives market, you said people who are making "bazillions" off of T-bonds.

That was what the fat class wanted us to do.

They want us to reduce spending... so that the government borrows less... so that they can lend more money to the government so that they can make money off the interest of those T-bonds? Ummm... I think there's a flaw in your logic here, lefty.

If it gets too bad, there is the option of nationalizng the resources and infrastructure they leave behind.

Yay! We can have Walmart run by the same folks who operate the DMV!

 

[thaiboxerken]

Yay! We can have Walmart run by the same folks who operate the DMV!

I think the DMV works very well, and they pay and treat their employees ethically.

Walmart, on the other hand......

 

[Ziggurat]

I don't accept your reasons, as they haven't been shown to actually be true.

Sure they have. Why the hell do you think all those rich people lefty referred to own so many T-bonds? Because it lets them avoid taxes (though the government gets something significant in return). The rich have always shown themselves adept at avoiding taxation. And they always will, too, because unlike us, they can afford to change their behavior significantly.

The reasons many businesses have been going overseas is because of incentives given by past administrations.

When I talked about avoiding taxes, I was talking about rich people, not businesses. If you raise taxes on businesses, that will impact the middle class. Which is supposedly what you're trying to avoid doing.

However, why is it that some countries have very good budgets AND quality of life even though they have very high taxes?

That's a completely different issue. If you think the middle class can cope just fine with higher taxes than they have now, take it up with lefty.

The Republican method has always been tax cuts, and only tax cuts.

Which is perhaps why a lot of tea party protesters are not exactly happy with the republican establishment, in case you haven't noticed.

Have you noticed?

 

[Ziggurat]

I think the DMV works very well

Then either your experience or your criteria for evaluation appears to be anomalous.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Then either your experience or your criteria for evaluation appears to be anomalous.

As opposed to?

You have only given speculation about taxing the rich and wealthy, AND I also did include businesses in these increased taxes. Oil companies have profitted in the billions, subsidized by the government, and they've paid less than 1% tax on those profits. It's nonsense like this that we need to stop.

 

[leftysergeant]

Wait... when "one of their own" is running government, isn't that when corporations are supposed to be making money hand-over-fist because they've been given free reign to squeeze the poor? Why would they divert money from more-profitable businesses to lend it to the government?

Investments that do not require a lot of pay-outs to the peasants have a higher return. It is more profitable to import cheap crap, to be sold in big-boxstores staffed with minimum-wage workers or to create fake securities than to pay people a decent wage to actually make stuff for export.

And how do you think those fat cats get government to borrow so much? If it's a giant conspiracy, shouldn't we be examining how those fat cats have inflated government spending, thereby requiring massive borrowing which they can then fund?

They know that the Republicans will cut taxes so much that the government has to borrow money, which they will mostly repay by taxing the middle class.

It's all part of the strategy to break government to the point that there will be no checks on corporate power.

You didn't say anything about the derivatives market, you said people who are making "bazillions" off of T-bonds.

That may be a blood-out-of-turnips deal. When we try to wring the money out of that market, it will collapse and there will be nothing there any more.

They want us to reduce spending... so that the government borrows less... so that they can lend more money to the government so that they can make money off the interest of those T-bonds? Ummm... I think there's a flaw in your logic here, lefty.

The government will still need to borrow money or tax the middle class to keep paying interest to the fat class and to build up the military-industrial complex.

Yay! We can have Walmart run by the same folks who operate the DMV!

Or contract it out to the unions to run as a cooperative.

 

[Ziggurat]

Investments that do not require a lot of pay-outs to the peasants have a higher return. It is more profitable to import cheap crap, to be sold in big-boxstores staffed with minimum-wage workers or to create fake securities than to pay people a decent wage to actually make stuff for export.

And this makes those rich guys want to pull money out of their businesses and invest in T-bonds... why?

They know that the Republicans will cut taxes so much that the government has to borrow money, which they will mostly repay by taxing the middle class.

So the Republicans will cut taxes so much that they have to raise taxes... in order to divert money to those rich guys... who bought T-bonds with all the money they pulled out of their obscenely profitable businesses.

It's all part of the strategy to break government to the point that there will be no checks on corporate power.

Huh. I would have thought that a better strategy for breaking government would be to not lend it any money.

That may be a blood-out-of-turnips deal. When we try to wring the money out of that market, it will collapse and there will be nothing there any more.

So why did you bring up T-bond holders when discussing rich people who should be soaked?

The government will still need to borrow money or tax the middle class to keep paying interest to the fat class and to build up the military-industrial complex.

And reducing spending will help build up the military-industrial complex and get the government to borrow more from the fat cats... to pay to the fat cats... how? Sorry, you're still not making any sense whatsoever.

Admit it already, lefty: you were talking out your backside when you brought up T-bond holders.

 

[ProBonoShill]

Like Keith Olbermann?

Keith Olbermann is a left wing shill, but last time I checked he wasn't leading a peace protest.

I was just wondering what happened to these people, why aren't they calling for the death of Obama or hanging him in effigy?

 

[ProBonoShill]

I think the DMV works very well, and they pay and treat their employees ethically.

Walmart, on the other hand......

Do DMV's engage in commerce?

Maybe they should just double the number of DMV's, unemployment solved.

Awesome!

As opposed to?

You have only given speculation about taxing the rich and wealthy, AND I also did include businesses in these increased taxes. Oil companies have profitted in the billions, subsidized by the government, and they've paid less than 1% tax on those profits. It's nonsense like this that we need to stop.

Gee you're just full of wonderful ideas.

Let's increase taxes on the oil companies so fuel costs rise.

That'll help out the lower classes.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Keith Olbermann is a left wing shill, but last time I checked he wasn't leading a peace protest.

I was just wondering what happened to these people, why aren't they calling for the death of Obama or hanging him in effigy?

Probably because the Tea Baggers are hanging him for them.

Also, the anti-war protests against Bush were largely due to Iraq. Afghanistan was widely supported by most people. Another thing, there is criticism from the left of Obama and Afghanistan. I think the reason there isn't quite the protests is because Obama has actually laid out a time-line, even if it is rather vague.

 

[leftysergeant]

Do DMV's engage in commerce?Actually, the same people who set policy for DMV should be setting policies for schools. But theextreme right would turn the schools over to private businesses and then we're all screwed. When government runs an operation, most of the expenditures go into operations, nearly nothing nito advertising and none of it to shareholders. Private industries is bass ackwards of that.

Let's increase taxes on the oil companies so fuel costs rise.

That'll help out the lower classes.

Well, actually, if the increased revenue was used to subsidize other forms of transportation and heating, the poor would have more money to spend on food and clothing and such, and we would have to spend less on environmental projects and highways to handle the growing number of cars.

 

[Lurker]

I would rather have rich buying, building, manufacturing and investing than hiding their money in tax shelters, wouldn't you?

So you are advocating suspending all taxes on the rich and just letting the middle class and poor pay for the workings of government.

Ok.

 

[leftysergeant]

The less the rich have been taxed, the less they have spent on actually producing stuff. It may sound counter-intuitive to a conservative, but look at what happened after the jelly-brain from California started this tax-cut mania.

The fat class just invented fake financial instruments and clever marketing schemes to trade commodities around until they had jacked up the prices and soaked the consumers for everything they could get. They moved factories off shore for the cheap labor, bought the products made by their own factories and inmported them a near-zero tariffs, then brought the money home as "re-patriated capital" and paid no taxes on it.

Time to stop that crap.

The only tax breaks the fat class deserves this time are for investments in physical plant right here.

And maybe it is time to prohibit foreign ownership of mining concessions and start charging market rates for mining claims. Right now, a mining company pays as much for a claim as they did in 1880. Stupid way to manage our resources.

If it comes down to that, perhaps establishing state industries might be the only way out of debt. Mining and oil drilling come to mind as real naturals.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I have to wonder, is there any evidence that the "trickle down" theory has any merit to it? It appears to me that the wealthy horde the wealth.

 

[leftysergeant]

I have to wonder, is there any evidence that the "trickle down" theory has any merit to it? It appears to me that the wealthy horde the wealth.

Ask any soldier what rolls down hill, and he won't say it was money.

I prefer to call Republican ecconomic theory "piddle-down" ecconomics.